Ah, now that the topic of deodar has come up, I have been considering getting some for my place here in VA--a warm and relatively dry Z6. Most I see are rated for Z7, so I am looking for cultivars that are supposed to be a bit hardier than the species. Here is a list of what I am considering trying:

"Eisregen'
'Karl Fuchs'
'Shalamar'
'Polar Winter' --any others I should look at?

And how would the Cedrus atlantica 'stenacoma' compare?

Which are the most vigorous growing? Most beautiful?

--Spruce

That was in '61?! I would love to see some pictures of this plantation, then and/or now!

Spruce,
Some will likely inform you that only Cedrus libani var. Stenocoma is reliably hardy for you... I'd say give them all a whirl and find out for sure. Though as far as the Deodar's go, I believe that Eisregen and Karl Fuchs are the hardiest. I have some of each and we'll see how they all do after their first real-unbabied winter.

Nate

I can't see how that's really extreme. Plenty of conifers grow in CA, so it's not at all surprising cedar does as well.

Well, I am really impressed by Pinetree's report about these deodars. I say "amazing!" I am not terribly familiar with the area where these trees are growing, but having lived in LA for 7 years, and having taken drives up into the general area of this plantation, I would have never guessed these trees could grow there.

Yes, there are lots of conifers that grow in the mountains of California, but the San Gabriel Mountains are in far southern, CA, and at the elevation of only 2,700 feet, I am not sure if any would grow there--maybe a digger pine or two in a more protected and moist location.

I have several times in this forum expressed my admiration for Norway Spruce and its adaptability, but this report of the Deodars tops anything I can claim for NS. The site where these trees are growing is one hot, dry, and inhospitable site for any tree, let alone a conifer from the kind of native environment the deodars are from. And, on a ridge with southern exposure? I would not want to be stuck on a place like tanbark ridge in the summer for very long, with or without several canteens of water.

Pinetree--thanks for the report!

--Spruce

Pukka Sahib,

Just from living in the summer dry interior valley of California I can appreciate such a tree surviving without supplemental water.

Must say though that the last two words of your post had me stumped. Did our friends from the UK know it's meaning, or everyone but me? Found a great link with many other such terms, many originating in India. There's some good ones!

Barbara

Here is a link that might be useful: British Colonial Military Terms and Soldier Slang

This thread got my curiosity going and I think I found an aerial image of the plantation PineTree speaks of. Using the link below do a search for San Dimas Canyon Rd W, CA. Follow that road north to W.Fork San Dimas Truck Trail. Continue on to where a second NF-1N10 branches off to the left, switch to the Bird's Eye Feature and center it on that location. I would think the Deodar are those tall trees surrounding a group of buildings along a small creek and about several hundred yards west/southwest of the helopad. But only PineTree can confirm this.

Here is a link that might be useful: Live Search Maps

Hard to know what you're saying with all that incompehensible nonstandard data presentation, but I'd doubt the conditions are all that significantly different from the lower altitudes of its native range. The Calif ones are lower, but also further north. And also closer to the sea, so getting more summer cooling from sea winds. So summer temperatures are probably about the same.

More significant limits on its tolerance are obvious in northern Europe. In coastal NE England, summers are too cool (around 16°C July mean) for cone production, so although the trees grow, they won't reproduce. Even inland (where summers are slightly warmer), cones are only produced in exceptional years (less than one in 25). And in Scandinavia, Deodar Cedars get killed when winter temperatures drop below about -20° to -25°C, with only the northwesternmost origins a bit hardier, taking down to around -30°.

PS "Precip (largely snow) is predominantly from the summer monsoon" I don't think that summer monsoon precip is largely snow!

Resin

Resin:

I am not sure how much influence there is from any cool ocean winds where these trees grow. The lower foothills of the southern CA mountains, unless they are very close to the sea, is minimal. The San Dimas Canyon, I would guess, is far enough east away from the sea to be a rather unconfortably hot and dry place in the summer. I never lived there, but have driven through that area a few times, and I would not want to be there on a hot ridge on the lower mountain slopes in summer waiting for any cooling ocean breeze.

But, maybe, that is like their native location. But from what I know of the area pinetree talks about, it would not strike me as a place for any tree to grow.

Maybe someone can come up with some statistics on summer temps and humidity for that specific area.

--Spruce

Besides which, I might add, is the influence of the Santa Ana winds coming off the Mohave Desert and down over the higher ridges of the San Gabriels, with their notorious drying and burning. Being close to an ocean doesn't always produce Englands. My larger point is that anyone doing climate matching would see a summer-rainfall climate and a winter-rainfall climate (or as the geogs say, high-sun vs. low-sun) as virtual opposites.

That locale does get very hot but not as hot as where I live. There have been years where it got to 114 here and being below a major pass we get the brunt of the Santa Ana winds. The winds in fall are very hot and drying and on occasion have exceeded 100 mph. I have had to fix my roof after those. It's a double whammy when we get those winds and it's over 100. Wind has been my number one consideration in choosing trees for my property.

There are many Deodars planted around my neighborhood. I have never seen one blown over or broken by the wind. It is one tough tree. There is a spot in my backyard that is begging to have one planted there.

Since july 2008 I have a Cedrus deodara "Karl Fuchs", here in zone 6 and it is doing very well.
I planted the 1.5 (5 feet) tree a year ago (not the best month to plant but it was a must) and it standed a very warm and dry august thereafter. Ofcourse I watered it and watered it at least 4 times a week in that month. In comparison: I lost my Abies pinsapo which I also planted a year ago and is also considered as a drought-tolerant tree.
After that Karl Fuchs easily survived the winter in which the temperature dropped twice to -18C (without snowcover!!!).
It's a fine and remarkable tree, it belongs to the Patkia group which is from the higher altitudes of Afghanistan. I looked up some climate-data from there and in summer there's almost no precipitation in that area, so it has to be a very drought tolerant tree. The very high altitude from which it comes, makes it's cold-tolerancy, I guess.

I live in Vancouver B.C. which according to Wikipedia is their northern limit on the west coast. They were quite popular here as an ornamental but there are two things that are odd about them here. The boughs droop rather than sloping upright which they appear to in photos I've seen from India, I attribute this to our relatively weak sunlight. I saw the same thing with Norfolk Island Pine which look completely different here than in Australia. The other thing is that almost without exception their tops have been broken off about the 30 foot level. I've never seen it happen but every 4 - 5 years we get a particularly fierce storm and I think it tops them. Most of our local conifers are very flexible in the wind.

I have seen Stenocomas in Cincinnati which are decades old which seem to no suffer any winter damage. I have two deodars (I am zone 6). One is a Snow Sprite growing on a south wall which is doing well. I bought another (unknown variety) from Home Depot which had winter damage, but it has done quite well since Spring with all new growth.

We know the root-system to be fully hardy to zone 5 (winters).
A lot of the time the tree will simply re-flush in the spring but a one-time cold snap will kill it in winter if it get's cold enough... These other's of the Patkia group (deodara only) I have high hopes for. Stenocoma is a beautiful tree, and too is often quite hardy in zone 5's.

Dax

I live in the Philadelphia(zone 6)area and have been growing one for about 4 years with no problem.It face northeast an i never provide water.Last August it was very dry and still did not water.It is currently about 10ft high and about 8ft wide.There is agood possibility i will take it down because it grows so fast.By the way i don't know what the name is i got for 9.00 bucks at the local produce junction,couldn't resist. Joe

The more we grow Deodars in zone 5 and 6 perhaps one day we will be able to develop even more cold hardy varieties. It is fun to push the limits of nature.

That's right living-fossil. It's my intension to sow a few hundred deodars in a seed-bed next spring. In my zone it's pretty sure that there will be mortalities, probably a few, probably all. But if some survive, perhaps they will stand the future winters.
Offcourse I can try to root some from Karl Fuchs also....

What seed-sources are available for Cedrus deodara, anyway?