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brutuses

It's May, how is your build coming along?

brutuses
16 years ago

We have some real exciting photo's - Moulding, window casings, and other woodworking projects. Ok, so it's not real exciting, but it was a lot of work and it's done. I'm so sorry I don't have better photo's. You see I have a problem holding a camera still. So forgive my blurred photo's. I promise to get better ones. I'll have DH take some.

Master bath

Guest bath

{{gwi:1447085}}

Foyer - walls not painted yet so difficult to see

{{gwi:1447087}}

Formica covered window sill

Comments (69)

  • patty_cakes
    16 years ago

    Patsy, your mouldings are beautiful!! And what a clever use for the formica on the sills~smart hubby. I can only wish I had mouldings *around* the windows, but I do have sills. Even the more expensive homes in TX don't have that, just like CA. Guess it's something that applies to custom homes only, as I had trim back in IL.
    I sure hope you're able to get in before the rains start in LA~you must have the patience of a saint.

    I took pix, but packed the cord I need to connect to the internet. I have some on my cell phone also, and just might challenge myself a little to get them on line.

    Glad to see you here! ;o)

  • brutuses
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    jay, your house is beautiful. The exterior colors are really nice. I see you are right on the water. Lucky you!!

    Patty Cakes, so nice to hear from you as I've been wondering how you're doing with your house. I guess I'll see photo's after you move in. LOL

    If you remember when we first started building our house I said we would be so broke we wouldn't be able to buy furniture so we're beefing up the architecture when people come to visit, as they are sitting on their floor pillow, they can be admiring the architecture. HA! I won't have people sitting on the floor, but I really won't be able to afford furniture. LOL Right now I'm collecting rockers since everyone loves my porches more than the house. I figure at least they'll be able to sit in a rocker on one of the porches.

    So how close are you to moving in?

  • coffeehaus
    16 years ago

    Hey, I want to get in on this BluWood party! Here's our progress pics. We broke ground Oct. 29...relatively slow progress but the crew is only the builder and his crew of 3 merry pranksters, plus DH as the "owner-laborer". He's doing well for an AARP member. First floor and garage walls are done. Next challenge, the second floor. DH will vouch for the heft and weight of all 40 of these support beams!
    {{gwi:1447102}}
    {{gwi:1447103}}

  • snowbuzzard
    16 years ago

    Hi All, We should have to roof on this next week and our son
    will start the "electrical" next Friday. We have him for 4
    days to do all the rough -in wiring with my help.This is our second attempt at finishing as we lost the "Whole"place to fire last Sept.20th just as we going to start the insulating and drywall.. The second time is something special and really looking to complete our new
    home . Hope to send "Photos"soon of our progress !!!!

  • jenanla
    16 years ago

    Jaymie- your house looks great! You must be thrilled to have the drywall up and floors ready to go in.

    Brutuses- I know the feeling of new furniture not being in the budget. I keep joking that we'll be using beach chairs.

  • tinker_2006
    15 years ago

    I just realized, that on the "IT'S JUNE" thread... I will have spent my first night (May 31st) in our new home! I will be back to keep watching how everyone else is progressing!

    There is not much left for them to do... mainly install granite and floors. Yesterday I went to the house and almost all the ceiling fixtures were hung (not sure I like some of my choices!!). I can't wait!

  • jaymielo
    15 years ago

    Thank you landp, brutuses and jenanla. I'm excited (after a lag of frustration and exhaustion) to see things moving along again.

    tinker, Oh, I'm so jealous! You are so close! Can we see some of those pictures? Would love to gawk at your painted walls and newly installed light fixtures!

  • worf1108
    15 years ago

    We are building in Illinois (southwest of Chicago) and the house is a single story 3 bedroom, 2.5 bath that is approx. 2100 sq. ft.

    The outside is getting close to complete with the exception of the driveway and some finishings on the deck. We met with a landscaper last week so we will be proceeding with that in the coming weeks.

    The inside is really coming close as well.

    The flooring is pretty much complete just some trim remains. The hardwood flooring is complete. The tile flooring is complete and the tile guys are currently working on the tile in the shower and master bathroom walls.

    Baseboards and window trims are pretty much complete.

    All of the doors are hung and waiting for the hardware.

    The painter and drywaller will be back soon to paint the garage and touch up the dings and what not inside the house.

    The electrician needs to hang a few outside fixtures and a few other little items inside the house.

    The plumber has to install some more fixtures and finish up the main line and then he will be able to turn the water on to the house.

    The cabinets are complete and waiting for the granite to be installed which will be in a week or two.

    We expect that everything should be done by the end of May or early June at the latest.

    I have attached a link to some pictures of the outside of the house. Once the inside is closer to complete I will also add those pictures.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Latest Outside Pictures

  • brutuses
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    worf, looking good. You're almost there. Can't wait to see the inside photo's.

  • kemptoncourt
    15 years ago

    Drywall, Tile and Boxing done.....start interior trim Monday, Stairs Wednesday

  • armomto3boys
    15 years ago

    We have blocks! Plumbing rough in is scheduled for the end of the week. :)

  • jaymielo
    15 years ago

    kemptoncourt, You are moving right along. The house looks beautiful. Lots of angles and high ceilings. As usual, a little bit ahead of us! We are starting hardwoods this week.

    amomto3boys, Congratulations on getting going. Can't wait to see the house start to take shape. I'm sure you are VERY excited.

  • ccoombs1
    15 years ago

    Drywall is done, paint is getting ready to go on. I met with the cabinet guy sunday. The oak flooring is delivered, I'll install it after I finish painting. Interior doors are on order. Got the Kerdi, cement board and tile for the main bathroom so I'll start that this week. All in all, lots of progress this month!

  • artielange
    15 years ago

    We've got a big hole in the ground that we've been planning for three years!

    http://bp1.blogger.com/_nysy3NK_o4U/SB0f-ZptkFI/AAAAAAAAACc/AF69kE7cpcA/s1600-h/Foundation4-08.jpg

    Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:1447069}}

  • kemptoncourt
    15 years ago

    I don't know Jay.....looks to me like we're about even.
    I just want to know how you keep your jobsite so clean.....1/2 our balusters are strewn across the subfloor in our kitchen getting sprayed flat black!

    Your kitchen is going to be beautiful......wide open.....

    What's your planned finish date?

  • ponydoc
    15 years ago

    We have been in for two months. We have lots of finish work to do- both us and the builder. Since we have finally made it to some decent weather we have started to focus on the outside. We have our other home to prepare to tear down. Porch railings and gutters yet to do. Slowly but surely getting pics hung etc. We had a Derby party this weekend -that was a good motivation for actually putting out some of my "pretties"

    This is a view down the basement steps. These are some great dog prints I have from an artist/friend.

    And here is my soaking tub. The walk in shower is to the right. That's my favorite little assistant getting his mug in there!

    I'll post more pics when I have more done!!!

    PD

  • landp
    15 years ago

    Yay, ponydoc!

    It's nice to hear an update. I followed your house while planning. Looks great. Can't wait for more pics. Do you have glass shower doors, or no door? Love the tile and fixtures.

    Now, be honest: did you hire that assistant for his talent or just his looks?

    ~landp

  • jaymielo
    15 years ago

    ponydoc! So nice to see some pictures! Take more, even if you aren't 100% together. I want to see the kitchen. The clutter room (how did the counters turn out in there) plus the outside... You're just teasing us!

  • mjob1999
    15 years ago

    We are finalizing closing for the sale of our current house, and awaiting a copy of the deed for our land, while also waiting for the power company to get the power lines that are in our way moved as well as having a cattle water station relocated. Getting first round of paperwork together for the mortgage pre-qualify. I never could understand how anyone could use a cell phone for 1000 minutes a month, and last month used 1100!!!! My goodness there is alot of legwork to be done, and we are just getting started!!

  • jenanla
    15 years ago

    Pony- It looks Great!! More pictures!!

    Jenn

  • eventhecatisaboy
    15 years ago

    Everyone's progress looks great. Unfortunately for us, I just don't think it is going to happen. Last year at this time, we were so positive we were going to break ground and be in our home by now. Now here we are, thinking of selling our property. We have 21 gorgeous acres, paid for, gas well and a cut in driveway. Our budget just doesn't seem to be able to meet our needs and desires. We've interviewed a lot of builders and have one more this week. Maybe a miracle can happen, but honestly, I'm tired of trying and fighting. It has caused too many sleepless nights. I guess it's better to know now than into the build and we're really stuck.

    You all have such beautiful homes and seem like such great people. I just can't help myself and I keep coming back here to see updates and even post a little. I'm embarrassed about being sad over not building, but I confess it is hard not to be disappointed. As a family, we are very blessed in many ways and we are grateful and thankful. Right now, worrying about a house just doesn't feel right anymore. Think it's time to walk away. I always know that I can come here to get my "fix" on gorgeous new homes-LOL! Who knows, maybe things will be different and I'll be posting good news about building, but we're ok regardless.

  • brutuses
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    eventhecatisaboy, don't be disheartened. Maybe you and DH could plan for a home to be built over a few years. DH and I started building 5 years ago and are hoping it will be finished by the end of this year. We would have liked it to be built in the conventional timeline, but we soon learned we couldn't afford it that way so we did it the only way we could, and that was over a 5 year period. DH did most of the work, but we hired a contractor to frame, put up the siding and do all the painting. DH has done everything else on weekends or when he could steal a day or two during the week. We are at the end and scrapping bottom to find the money to finish, but like my DH tells me when I'm ready to throw in the towel, we made it this far, we can't give up now. DH is 67 and really struggling to work full time as a contractor and then have to work on our house, but we're going to get it done because we want it that badly.

    When we started our project we were so niave when it came to realizing how much it would cost to build the home we wanted. Our home is not spectabular like some of the homes posted here, but it has a lot of extra's that cost money and lots of time. When we started out we borrowed a small sum to get things rolling and in short order realized that money was gone and we were at a standstill. So we were patient, let the house foundation sit for a few months, then when we had saved up enough to resume work, we did. That's how we've been going along, paying mostly as we go and only borrowing what we will be able to repay when we sell our current house. Not to mention charging on HD's charge now, pay in a year plan.

    You have that lovely piece of land and I hate to see you forfeit it. Hopefully you'll be able to find a solution so you can get your dream home.

  • neff2k
    15 years ago

    First time poster on this forum long time reader.

    We are actually making progress. Now if we could only get the weather to cooperate long enough to get the framing up. They just backfilled early this week, should be getting the basement floor poured late this week or maybe early next. After that things should take off for a while.

    Latest pictures from last night

    {{gwi:1447111}}

    Photo's of our progress can be found at the link below.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Our Housebuilding Process

  • jaymielo
    15 years ago

    eventhecatisaboy, just had to throw a little support your way. building a home has been a very "challenging" process for us also. I remember posting at at least one time that I was ready to give up and sell the lot. I remember Allison giving me much needed words of encouragement. It took us longer to get going than I thought. We sold our home and moved into a rental. We took our time and saved money which are using "out of pocket" for the upgrades we really wanted. We did make some compromises along the way. Our basement will be unfinished for the foreseeable future. However, we are finally well on our way to getting into the home. We just kept going back to the plans (we even switched plans once), figuring out what we could do. Interviewing different GCs until we found the "right" one. We also saved money by being actively involved in every selection and well informed about the cost. There were lots of things I did that were outside my GC's normal channels. Our cabinets are being made by an Amish custom cabinet maker in WI. My doorknobs are coming Charleston. My backsplash tile came from an artist in Oregon. My brother and I did the low voltage wiring and sound system. All these things took work and have caused anxiety, but our GC rolls with our "unconventional" ideas nicely and in the end, we are ending up with exactly what we want and saving money to boot. If you have the time and energy, I think it can be done. You own the land. Maybe it's just time to take a break. Step away and don't think house for a bit (I know, impossible) and regroup when you have the energy. We did that last June-Sept and when we came back, we were ready to move forward. Don't give up you dream or hope! I know next to nothing about you personally or your situation, but I bet if you keep trying and give it time, you will be able to build a house that works great for your family.

  • pioneergal
    15 years ago

    eventhecatsaboy and brutuses,

    We started our home building process 4 years ago. Like brutuses, we didn't have a lot of money but we had a dream. It has not been easy or fast, just the opposite. HARD and SLOW!
    We did a pier and beam foundation buying the materials as we built.Then when we saved enough money for the next phase we would get back to work on the house. This is the way that we have built our dream retirement home. I don't want to sound as if I'm boasting .... just thankful. So far not a red cent is owed against it. It's only 2000 sq ft with full length front and back porches but it fulfills our needs.
    There were times that it didn't seem that we would ever move in but with God's help it will happen this year. Some have even made jokes about how long its taking us to build but I look at it this way. It took Noah 120 years to build the ark so that means I still have plenty of time to finish the build.
    Eventhecatsaboy, don't let ANYONE steal your dream. If you can keep your land try to do so....they are not making any more of it. If it's debt free then you have something that a lot of people would give their eye tooth for.

    KEEP YOUR DREAM ALIVE!

  • brutuses
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    AMEN to that pioneergal!!

  • nwhome
    15 years ago

    Everyone's progress looks great!

    I haven't posted an update here in a while. We are OB'ing our home in the Pacific NW.

    Started planning in Dec '05.
    Broke ground in Dec '07.
    Finishing up most of the framing this week.
    Rough ins start next week.
    Hope to be moved in by November '08.

    Here is a link that might be useful: our home construction blog

  • jaymielo
    15 years ago

    nwhome, Absolutely beautiful. I love your home design and the lot it sits on. What a beautiful piece of property. Looking forward to more pictures as you move forward! Jaymie

  • Flowerchild
    15 years ago

    I also want to send some encouragement along to the DIY'ers that are building on a budget. We have been at it since March of 2004...It "ain't" been easy, but we plug along. Some might ask how did you get yourselves in a bind like this. It was not in our plan for DH to lose his well paying job of 17 years (due to outsourcing) and then have to settle for a new job at half the salary....You just never know what life's turns and twists are going to send you, regardless we never have given up on our dream. Like pioneergal, not to boast, we don't owe anything either yet. I tell people we are living in our bank because this is where the money is. And it's gaining more value than a bank account anyway. So in the end it will all be worth it.
    The way I survive this is taking it one day at a time and try to think of it as a "hobby". Hang in there..You have support here.

  • eventhecatisaboy
    15 years ago

    Brutuses, Jaymielo and Pioneergal--thank you for your words of encouragement. I really appreciate them! It helps to know others have accomplished their dreams in home building. I probably could fill up a whole thread with our situation, our experiences and mistakes thus far, our feelings, etc., but I'll spare everyone from that 'cause even I annoy myself at this point. LOL! Thanks again for being so kind!

  • ponydoc
    15 years ago

    Even the cat,

    I don't know what to say to help you- but I will try. We each have our own unique situation. I wish I could share all the details- but like you - I would annoy myself!! LOL

    We lived in dump for 15 years- we bought it for the land and paid the thing off before we started our new house. Many people who "love" us- joked behind our backs about the house that would never be built. We pressed on. We had financial tragedy, even more devastating personal tragedy that brought on even more financial hardship but we kept going with a pic on the fridge of what we wanted. Not just a pic of a house- a pic of the really important things also( a family). When we were ready to start - and realized how much our property was worth- we almost bagged it all, sold and bought a new place - we would have been mortgage free in a brand new home. But that was not what we wanted- and thought what better place to "waste" our money than in a home. We would have spent it ( most of it) on something else anyways. Is it great! You bet ya. Do I have regrets - some. Has it made us "happier" - no. We were happy before. It's made everyday life easier. It's made entertaining better ( literally people didn't come to our old house). But in the end it's just a house. It's what's in it that's important.

    I don't think you should give up. Maybe readjust. Maybe wait, I don't know. I will tell you as much as I love my custom home, I would have been happy on my little plot of earth in a double wide, a ( gasp) Schumacher home, or something half the size. Our old home had real structural issues that had to be dealt with so we were having to make a decision no matter- and although it came out better than expected it's only because we worked very hard ( I still work a lot) and persisted. Not just with the house- with everything. Everything we have ever wanted has put us to the test.

    Persistence is the only true talent. It really is. Hang in there.

    PD

  • t-mac-mo
    15 years ago

    They've started on the roof - all the rafters are in place, and have started on the plywood sheathing. Hopefully under roof next week, if it ever stops raining.

    View from across the lake...

    View from the driveway behind the house

    Another view from behind the house


    Eventhecatisaboy ... I don't have any particular advice for you, but wanted you to know that I am thinking about you. I think it speaks highly of your character that you can deal with your disappointment and still able to be happy for others on the board. I can't know, of course, what your challenges are, but have learned over the years that with things I couldn't have or didn't happen, there was a reason for it that I could only see some months or years later, and I was better for it. Maybe whatever new options come up will be even more suited for your family than you would have thought. My thoughts are with you as you wrestle with these decisions. Blessings to you and your family.

  • kemptoncourt
    15 years ago

    eventhecat,
    If it's any consolation last summer we were in a similar [but different] situation. After purchasing our land and having enormous challenges getting our septic perked we actually made an offer and were under contract with a home in a fairly coveted area in Charlotte. One night eating BBQ in the back of the pickup in what would become our driveway we saw the most amazing sunset across the lake. It was the kind that makes everything around you catch a golden glow. I know it sounds completely corny but from that moment all three of us knew that we made a bad decision making an offer on that house. It wasn't at all about having a big house in a great location. It was about building a home stick by stick, brick by brick with all the physical, mental and spiritual challenges that comes along with it. We've had screaming matches with contractors, scheduling issues, budget issues and our entire entry wall torn out and reframed but we've also had some amazing triumphs......completely amazing. We are a comitted team to making the dream a reality.

    It's funny because I think some people walk in our home and see it as showey or over the top. That may be the perception of some but I think OUR family really sees it more as SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL THAT WE ARE HELPING TO CREATE. It's like art taking shape before your eyes.......a beautiful marble sculpture being chiseled or a landscape emerging from the oils.

    I was glad to hear you take heart in the fact that you are blessed in many ways and give thanks for all that you have. It shows that your heart is in the right place.

    Hold on to your acreage. Where there is a will there is a way and you will eventually find yours. You WILL know when the time is right........in the meantime do some planning...estimating, scheduling, designing.....that was the bane of my existence for the year we spent in the molasses swap waiting for our land to perk........better yet make a post.....look for specifics on your plan, budget and spec.....

  • brutuses
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    tmac, your house is going to be fabulous. I can't wait to see photo's of the lake from inside the house. You lucky bird, right there on the water. Beautiful!!

  • pioneergal
    15 years ago

    Brutuses,

    The building project seems to consume most of my free time so I don't get to post as much as I would like but I do a lot of lurking on the forum.
    I do enjoy reading everyones build progress and pray blessings upon their homes.
    Your home building project has been a great interest to me because of the way your financing your dream, the homes style and location.
    I just love homes with porches....reminds me of my Louisiana roots.....Alexandria.
    Not many homes in our area of Texas are built on pier and beam with the country porches.
    In fact , the neighbors have all expressed their kind comments about our 8 X 48 foot front porch. I just smile and tell them that in parts of the south that would be considered small in comparison to the large porches on a country home.
    I love porches and wish that maybe we would have done a 12 wide instead.

  • eventhecatisaboy
    15 years ago

    Ponydoc, T-Mac, Kemptoncourt--Oh my stars! You guys made me cry! Thank you, thank you for your kind, kind words. This forum is great in so many ways because of all the special people here.

    I hate to take up valuable space here to explain our trials and tribulations. I'll post on the conversations side if anyone is interested.

    Thank you for your blessings and friendship! Those help more than you know!

  • ajpl
    15 years ago

    t mac mo, it's looking great! I can't remember your layout though. Do you have a website with your progress?

  • t-mac-mo
    15 years ago

    aipl - thanks! We don't have a website - I just recently figured out how to post pics on the forum ;-)

    This is the basic plan - we're putting a modest master suite in the loft, and have rearranged some walls on the first floor to allow an entry door at the back of the house, between the bedrooms, as well as a small laundry closet.

    It's not a huge house, more of a cabin, but for just the two of us will be fine. We just can't wait!

  • krislrob
    15 years ago

    It's nice to see how everyone is coming along. I understand and can empathize with the trials and tribulations of the dream, the struggle and the reality of what we're all trying to do.
    Finally, after a year of doing it OB, we are having our final inspection on Monday. I'm hopeful the county will turn us loose and let us move in since we have to be out of our rental in 7 days. We're out of money, we've sucked up our savings and we missed the loan deadline and lost our 30-year fixed, so we're going to have to fight with the lender to get a better deal than what they're offering and they're in the driver's seat.
    Would I do it again? Absolutely.
    Good luck to everyone and we'll hopefully be posting some photos soon.
    Yahoo!!

  • tnhousewife05
    15 years ago

    housewrap is on, windows installed and shingles are coming along!

  • landp
    15 years ago

    tmac-It's so lovely I don't think I could ever leave. Hope you work from home!

    eventhecat-We've had several friends build as they could afford, cold hard cash ONLY. Took each at least 5 years. But their old homes were paid for, the new construction land was paid for, so they just worked as they could and waited. And waited. I really hope that you can keep your land. 21 paid for acres--Amazing!! Jaymielo has good advice, if you can do it. Just put everything in a filing cabinet and let it stew. Go back in 6 months. BTW, until we recently adopted an abandoned pup, I was the only female, too. Hubby, three boys, three male fish, and even the cat is a boy!

    pioneer-We're from Alexandria, and our new home is pier and beam with Southern porches. 8' on front, 12' on back, and 14' on side. Pics posted above at our update. Did you show any pics? I didn't see any.

  • landp
    15 years ago

    I figured out how to post a picture!!!
    Front:


    Back:

    Outdoor FP:

  • brutuses
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    landp, love your house and all those beautiful raised porches. Wow, looks like you're bulding in S. Lousiana. HA! On the North Shore of the lake all the houses are raised like that because they flood with each heavy rain.

    Glad you learned how to post photo's. Keep them coming.

  • alliern
    15 years ago

    I know it's the middle of May but better late than never, right? Colorado is still getiing snow so things are progressing but not as fast as we'd like.

  • cork2win
    15 years ago

    I decided to finally post to this thread even though we're about at the end of our ropes.

    We're nearly done with the house. Trim guys finished last week. All we really have left is some electrical work, plumbing fixture installation, final coat of paint and the exterior grading, then of course the huge punch list.

    Mostly though we're just frustrated at the lack of attention we've received from the builder and the constant barrage of shortcuts all the subs are trying to take because they want to be done with the project and the foreman isn't around. We talked with the foreman yesterday and he outright admitted that he has no idea what's going on at our house because he hasn't been there in so long. Every day it's my husband's job to see what's been done wrong and have it addressed. DH has basically been the foreman on this job, so obviously the foreman we're paying doesn't feel like he needs to be there.

    We're nearing the end and I'm just dreading the battle with them over the final draw on the house. We know they and their subs are going to try to soak us for more money to cover all their mistakes when they were THEIR mistakes, not ours. We feel like we should be getting a discount for doing their jobs for them and I'm sure they're going to try to soak us for every last penny and I'm dreading having this discussion.

    At this point we just want these people done and out of our house and out of our lives. Hopefully soon. Very, very soon.

  • ccat
    15 years ago

    We started building in December and to date we have roof, windows, geothermal loops are in, electrical is moving along, as is plumbing.

    Our house is a 1900 square foot addition onto a 1940s story-and-a-half, all brick farmhouse that is 2400 square feet. We connected the house in two areas on the main level and we cut through and connected the basements. The new basement has 10' walls, so there are steps down into that basement from the existing one.

    This has been quite a venture in....wonder what it will REALLY look like when we are done, since this is not a cookie-cutter project. Very much an on-site decision project. Here are some recent pics of our progress so far. We have had MANY challenges in both our design and blending of architecture with old and new.

    I do love my arched doorways! When all is said and done, it will be home. :)

    ccat

    Here is a link that might be useful:

  • ccat
    15 years ago

    pics link....
    {{gwi:1447124}}house progress

  • brutuses
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    ccat, that house ia beautiful. How large are the two together? I thought I had problems building one by itself. I can't imagine trying to attach one to an existing one. That sounds very challenging. You must have one talented architect.

    Please keep the photo's coming.

  • liptonjl
    15 years ago

    Still quite a bit go to before we're in, but here are some progress photos!




  • vfish
    15 years ago

    Very hard to believe, we have been in our house a month now. Soooooo much yet to do. Our outside railing was just completed and the final baseboard moulding went in today.

    I just took a picture of the new railing today, third time is a charm I guess!

    Once I am more settled, lots of pictures and all of my "wisdom" don't know if that will help anyone, but I'll throw it out there!
    v