Concerning trades with "layered problems", as an owner builder it's up to you to seek out competent subs for your project. Electricians, plumbers, hvac generally know what they can and cant do pertaining to , for example, cutting certain framing members.Joists, headers, beams,rafters,etc have limits to sizes and locations of holes drilles,or areas opened by code.Some framing members cant be touched at all, so in a situation where a box, water line, ducting needs to be placed in a certain locale but is interrupted by a framing member, it can be a real problem to re-route.

What is layed out on the prints isn't always workable with the physical structure as it is often times dictated by the layout of the framer,which isn't on the prints.

Many owner builders not experienced with the physical process of the build hire the services of a g.c to oversee the project and see that the steps are going smoothly, with you making all the decisions concerning permitting,lot prep,site layout up until the final c.o.The g.c's part would be to aid in any problems that might crop up on the physical side.

It's a huge undertaking with many variables, but if you research and do your homework concerning the steps involved, it's doable. Dont assume anything, but rather get on the phone or contact whoever is concerned in any area or aspect of the build when questions arise.

If you are inexperienced with the process, i would advise the services of a g.c and pay attention in the event of a future build where you will be able to fly solo w/o the g.c on the next go round.

I think sierraeast is right on the money with this one. Very good advice, heed it! I've been involved (in a small, observatory way) with two builds in the past and now I'm working more actively with a friend on hers. And now, I can really say that if I had tried to build a home without this vital experience I would be screwed!

It is so important that you have actual EXPERIENCE with the process . . . there are so many things to consider and juggle - it's suicide to your project to come in blind and (learning as you go). If at all possible, volunteer with Habitat for Humanity and/or be a part of as many builds as you possibly can -- even experience with large remodel projects will give you SOME understanding (not like a full build, but it's much better than no experience).

Sierraeast and rosalindmw: Good advice. I will probably hire a GC at least for the experience. Do you think paying one 10% is unreasonable? With his plan I have full discretion with all subs except for the framing and lumber which he would hire. Final decisions would be left to me but he would be my professional eyes and ears.
comfortdog

10% is generally a standard, but the question is how much time will he/she spend on your project?

If I were hiring a GC simply to come out once in awhile and check on the structural soundness of the build, and I were doing all of the actual legwork (shopping bids, ordering materials, etc)...I would also look into an hourly consultative price as well as considering the percentage fee. I am against cost-plus arrangements (which is essentially what you are proposing) in general though. I guess it really depends on just how much help you want!

I agree in having a GC or at least someone versed and experienced in home building being around to ask questions and give you a hand when you need it. That is what I am doing and my bank required it. Luckly, I have a few friends who have built homes and one has his license. I am only paying him with beer and pizza though. I do give him a hand on his projects when he needs it.

I would rather pay an hourly rate than a percentage. I have heard that many contractors (or retired contractors) will do this.

Comfortdog,
Only you can decide what is best for you and your situation. If you are asking 'can someone with relatively little construction knowledge/experience be their own GC?' the answer is 'yes'. How successful they will be depends on their personal goals, skills and the amount of time they are willing to commit to the project. I know a few people who have gone this route and they have been pleased with their results-having control over their project and saving money. None of them said it was easy though. I also know one guy who freely admits his house cost him more but he was still glad that he was in control. I guess the key is to define why you are considering being an owner-builder and to make sure you do what you need to do be 'successful' from your point of view.

We strongly considered being owner-builders. We did not think we would find that perfect fit with a builder for our situation and we did not want to hand over control and a large part of our budget to a GC. We also felt that we had skills to bring to the project and were willing to spend time and resources to educate ourselves *prior* to starting.
On the downside, we also had fears and concerns about what could go wrong and our ability to be proactive and avert problems when it would be our first project of this size. A big concern was choosing good subs and getting them to work with us and for a fair price. We looked into U-Build it by the way, and they wanted to charge us $24k for a $300k project for example. We felt this was too much to pay for what they offered and there were services that they offered that we did not need but would be paying for.
In the end we have decided to work with a builder. We were able to find one that we think is a great fit for us and our project.
We know we could do this on our own, but we decided that it was worth it to us to have the experience and service of an experienced builder. We really want to have some peace and fun during the build, and we felt if we were completely responsible for everything that would be difficult if not impossible.
Good Luck with your decision and your build!

We hired a GC primarily because our bank required it and secondarily because this is our first custom build and wanted to have an experienced GC available for support. He's more of a consultant than a traditional GC in the way that DH and I are handling all the bids and books ourselves. We're paying him a fixed fee based on an estimated length of the project, which also works out to be roughly 9% of our building costs.

So far, it's working out great...although we're currently only in week 9 and the framing stage. I know there's a lot more to come, but so far so good! If we didn't have a loan and it wasn't "mandatory" to hire a GC, we would have probably considered hiring one on an "as-needed" basis instead of committing to the whole project.

Good luck with whatever you end up deciding to do!

Leilani

DH and I were inexperienced owner builders. Our saving grace was that we hired a site manager to oversee the entire build. We are paying him a flat fee in draws. He is an experienced builder but gladly took on this role for us. Since we didn't use him as a GC, we were able to save a ton of money. I found the biggest advantage to be that I control the money. I pay all subs when invoices come. The down side - we have to deal with some headaches and issues that a GC would normally deal with.

However, had we not had him, we never would have made it this far. It is well worth his fee.

jgirl 2007- Do you mind me asking what your fixed fee is? The GC we are considering is charging us a fixed fee of 75K if the project is a 12 monther. 6000 a month if it goes longer. My role would be a lot like yours in that I would be responsible for getting all the bids and deciding which ones to use- I could choose his if his come in with the best numbers- but I don't have to. He would help me in great detail with my budget and his knowledge and experience of the process. His wife is a designer and that is part of it, too. Our total house budget will be around 700K (without land). That would put the percentage a little over 10%. I know builders who do cost plus at 10% and wondering if what this is is about the same.
comfortdog

Comfortdog - We are paying $20k to the mgr. So far we've paid 1/2, the next draw after drywall and the last at completion. $75k seems very very high. And, let me tell you what this fee included. His company did the concrete foundation and block construction and frame - that was a separate price. However, he got multiple bids for us on just about every thing else and we got our own as well. Sometimes we used his subs, sometimes we didn't. But, we were able to get his contractor pricing thru his subs which I'm sure saved us enough to cover his fee. He was on the job site at least twice a day. He took calls from the subs and only if it was something he couldn't answer, then he called DH or me.

Now, we have had some bumps in the road with him, he's made some mistakes, one of which was very costly - on us. He forgot the get the wood price and called us frantic one morning said he needed us to get a price NOW. So DH went down the street from his work to the lumber yard and w/i a few hours we had their takeoff. Well, they made the mistake and faxed the takeoff to him (mgr). He in turn took that takeoff and faxed to his lumber yard instead of having them bid off the plans, they bid off another takeoff. So their bid came in lower and went with his lumber co. Well, apparently the first lumber yard had missed about 1/2 the house (how? no clue) and our bid of $9500 cost us $22000. All we got, was oops, I made a mistake. But he also said frame should about be equal to trusses. Our trusses were $16k (i think) and he should have caught on then. Anyway, that's behind us but still a sore subject.

On the other hand, we used his roofer which was $20k cheaper than the bid we got. He's been a builder for 25 years and his work is excellent. His quality of construction is rated excellent by our county. That means alot to us.

The bottom line, it has still been worth it for us to have him. No way with both DH and I working full time could we have done this.

jgirl,I find it hard to believe that his roofer came in at 20k lower than a previous bid.Was this on the same roofing type material, or was the first bidder trying to gouge you big time?

Sierraeast - We were shocked as well. We had three bids, $18500, $24500 and $38900. This was for the same 40yr dimensional shingle. We think the high bidder was not only trying to gouge us but we were probably priced at full retail. It's also a much larger operation than the one we went with and their overhead is passed on to the customer.

jgirl_ Wow. Your manager sounds like his job description is very similar to what ours wants to do for us. This GC wrote out his proposal for us. He basically covers 4 areas:
1. Assist in the final plans, spec and bid packages. 2. Manage site development;bid packages, permits, scopes of work etc....3. Assist in Current home sales plan; marketing time line, punch list....4. Construction management; daily sub management, gov liaison,schedule management, assist budget management.
My responsibility would be 1. final authority, budget management, weekly meetings with GC and all design selections.
So you think 75K is too much, huh? I'm torn because I think that this guy could do a fantastic job and I'm afraid if I ask him to reduce his price he will be insulted and I will have lost any opportunity to make this work. When he first made a proposal it was a full 20% of costs with 150K being a cap after 750K. I gagged on that!!! So he has now basically come back at half price and I'm not sure he will go down anymore than that. Any ideas on bargaining strategies?

I know some builders make tons of money but in my area that is a pretty good full time salary for a year. I would only pay that if he were to be on site EVERY day.

Comfortdog - I meant that $75k sounds like alot compared to the $20k we spent. I can tell you we are paying CASH which is always helpful in negotiating (with all trades). Got ours down by $10k from his original price of $30k.

You need to go with what you feel comfortable with. If you believe that his price is fair, then by all means, go for it.

Are you pulling your permits? Do you or he have to deal with a lender? I got the permits. They called in the inspections as me. We have no lender to deal with for draws. These things could have some bearing on your price too.

Good luck!