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rockmanor

Newer home w/ musty smell - please help

rockmanor
14 years ago

We bought our home less than two years ago; it was a new builder's spec. During the first six months we experienced roof and chimney leaks that took several attempts to stop. I also thought I detected a musty odor in several rooms, but didn't find the leaks for a couple of months longer, since only one left a sizable puddle that was hidden by furniture. Windows and doors have been replaced or reinstalled after treating. We removed trim, drywall and insulation from some walls, cleaned and treated the wall studs, put in new insulation, and re-drywalled. Anything (such as windows or baseboards) that was reused was cleaned with Jomax products, and not installed until moisture readings were single digit. When we removed drywall or wood, we went 18 - 24 inches beyond the last sign of mold. The builder is now out of the picture. We've spent $$$$$ on correcting drainage issues as well as these leaks, and are tapped out. I'm not trying to plead for sympathy, but want to explain why whatever I do next must be budget-friendly.

When I first found the various water intrustion problems my dh could not smell anything but I could smell a musty odor. I now smell a similar odor again, but can't pin down its source; dh smells nothing.

The builder installed the usual builder-grade single stage 13 SEER HVAC systems that are most likely oversized (that's common around here) as their run cycles are too short to effectively dehumidify. The ducts were professionally cleaned after the repair work was completed. We run multiple portable dehumidifiers around the house and try to maintain the RH below 45%. We installed good 5" media filters and UV lights on the HVAC systems, plus an ERV on the main floor. I've kept the ERV setting at just 10% for the past two months because of excessively rainy weather, otherwise the RH gets too high.

The room that concerns me now is not the one that had the worst mold problem before. The odor is stronger near the fireplace (north wall) and in the southeast corner (there are windows on the east wall but not on the south wall.) I see no sign of water instrusion. Moisture meter readings taken in the baseboards and window trim range from about 6% to 13%, with most locations giving single digit readings. In comparison, before all of the work was done I found moisture meter readings exceeding 30% around most of the windows and doors and along the baseboards beneath the windows.

I recently replaced the (temporary) curtains with plantation shutters. The only remaining upholstered furniture is a sofa and loveseat, neither of which have any odor. The floors are hardwood and there's no area rug. So that eliminates any easy answers.

One unknown about the house is the foundation under this room. The lot slopes, and beneath most of the main floor is a finished basement with poured concrete walls. We've had no trouble in the basement, except for the french doors (that we've replaced.) What's beneath this room we have no idea; it could be slab or a very low crawl space or something builders here refer to as a raised slab. We'd likely have to pull up the floor to know for certain. There are several HVAC registers in the floor, which we've never seen in a slab foundation. There's only about a 5" step down to the adjacent patio which is on grade. The patio often retains water for 12 - 24 hrs. after a storm, and it's possible that some seeps down along the south exterior wall.

One fear is that some mold spread beneath the floor previously and was reactivated/encouraged to grow by the constant rain we've had these past two months. The other fear is that mold has grown around the firebox and chimney, and/or beneath the hearth where water may have seeped during the earlier leaks. I don't have a clue how to be sure, short of tearing apart the house.

I've read about ozone machines that can be set up in a sealed space to run for one to several days and are supposed to kill mold/mildew. They're pretty costly to buy and I haven't had any luck finding a rental around here. Has anyone used them with good results? Do you have any suggestions of how to proceed?

Comments (12)

  • worthy
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Inspectapedia is not too keen on ozone generators.

    You sound to me like you're on the right track.

  • rockmanor
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for that link, Worthy. I was hoping you'd chime in here. Guess I need to do some more research.

    On a more positive note, dh thinks he has found a place where he can gain access into an air duct that runs to the room in question, from an unfinished closet in the basement. His hope now is that he can remove a portion of the duct and use a flashlight to try to see how that part of the foundation was built. At least we'll know more about what we're facing.

    Dh also suggested that should we need to pull up some of the hardwood floors, he could put in a transition section beneath the cased opening to the room (a double run of floorboards would be the same width as the trim.) I know that may be looking pretty far ahead, but at least I won't worry about how the space will look when we put it back together.

    Meanwhile, I'll try not to borrow trouble and get back to reading up on possible solutions.

  • chispa
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I hope our long time member lkplatow doesn't mind me posting the link to her site. She had water/mold issues and did a great job of documenting her ordeal ... a great resource for other homeowners.

    http://www.imageevent.com/platow/defectivehouse

    I hope you can resolve your problem easily, but water issues are never quick or easy to resolve. Good luck.

  • rockmanor
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks, Chispa. I remember reading that site while our house was torn up before. It's quite shocking.

    We've finally gotten some heat relief, which makes it pleasant outdoors but presents a problem inside. While the temps are 50s at night and mid-70s during the day, making both heat & A/C unnecessary, the current humidity is 80% so our dehus are all running full tilt. I looked into having dehus installed on each HVAC system, but at approx. $3K a piece the cost was prohibitive. I also wasn't sure how well they'd work in the shoulder seasons when neither heat or A/C are called for and we just need ventilation & humidity control.

  • energy_rater_la
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I like the stand alone dehumidifers better than ones
    incorprated in to hvac system. When you place the dehumidiferes in the conditioned space they sense the
    RH in that space, many central dehumidifiers sense the RH in the area they are located in and do not dehumidify the conditioned space as well.

    Where are you located?
    Where are central units located?
    Have you talked to hvac company about adjusting
    dip switch settings? Many times they are installed
    with factory settings and need to be adjusted for your climate.
    ERV's are usually not for cold climates..that would be an HRV, so I wonder about your location.
    Also ERV's are for 'tight' houses..with less than .25 air changes per hour. If your house is not at this level of air tightness the ERV can bring in moisture adding to the
    dehumidification load of hvac.
    Was the house tested for air tightness with a blower door?

    To 'see' what is happening behind the walls and between floors of your home would require a thermal scan of your home. This will show you moisture intrustion sites
    and moisture in walls, ceilings and floors.
    IMO this will be the way to go to actually KNOW what is happening. Then whatever the IR scan shows will be on you to address. Around here (Louisiana) thermal scan (InfraRed)
    scans are used often when home owners and builders are seeking solutions. I've even seen them used in court cases.
    But hopefully...it won't come to that!

    best of luck.

  • rockmanor
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks, Energy-rater. I wish you had a clone in our area. We're in the deep south (but not LA) which is why I chose the ERV over the HRV. The house is less than 2 yrs. old, so we took for granted that it's pretty tight. I called a bunch of HVAC and related companies, and none does a blower door test nor could anyone refer someone to me.

    I did have an IR scan done last year in 7 or 8 rooms, but not the entire house. I could only locate one person who does it, and you can guess that he charges a premium with no competition. It was not as helpful as I'd hoped. Maybe it would be better to try again in the winter.

    Guess I'll start shopping for a few more portable dehus. Dh has a plan to create a little closet, with louvered door for air flow, for at least two of them where the drain hose can be run either outside or to a floor drain. That should reduce the noise.

  • alabamanicole
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    rockmanor, your local utility company many have referrals.

    If you are in northern Alabama I can refer you to an energy audit guy here. And in the Atlanta area SouthfaceHomePerformance.com has a list of contractors.

  • worthy
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Not rubbing it in. But in the jurisdiction I build in, the builder is responsible for remediating water penetration problems for the first two years. If the builder doesn't, the mandatory warranty programme takes responsibility.

    (Or is that unacceptable socialism?)

  • alabamanicole
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It might be worth consulting a lawyer. If the builder took "several attempts" to stop the roof leaking, there's a strong argument for all of this being due to his (or her) negligence. Whether or not there's a strong LEGAL argument is another issue.

  • rockmanor
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Alabamanicole, our power co. people are clueless. But thanks, anyway. If we retire in N. AL. one day, I will certainly want to speak with your energy audit guy.

    Worthy, don't rub it in! The builder of this house turned out to be a total flake. I've never known a grown man to cry (yes, actual tears) and whine as much as he did. If he'd threatened suicide one more time I would have handed him my Glock. At least he isn't building any more. Sorry to be so harsh, but he endangered the lives of two of my loved ones, compromised the health of the rest of us, wasted time that could've been spent solving the problems by making excuses and ultimately cost me money that I couldn't spare.

    Do you think that your Mike Holmes might enjoy a trip south this winter? He's filmed in other parts of the States; maybe he'd enjoy some mint juleps and magnolias.

  • alabamanicole
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That site linked is heartbreaking.

    Here's a cheap thing that might help -- caulk around all the outside windows, doors, vents, etc. I will bet almost anything this builder didn't bother to do it, and water could be getting behind the walls when it rains. The water that gets in won't necessarily show up near your inside windows.

    One way to spot check cheaply for moisture in the walls is to remove outlets and switches and check for dampness behind them.

  • energy_rater_la
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    OP there is a national energy raters site

    www.natresnet.org

    theirs is the standard we all adhere to.

    Not only is house tested for air tightness, but ducts
    and return air are also tested for tightness.
    thermal scans (IR cameras) area also available.

    not only do you need to find the moisture entrance
    but how to repair this site.
    Most energy raters give recommendations as to how
    to repair.

    IMO this is where you need to go.

    best of luck

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