My DB's MIL just entered an assisted living and her LTC pays $100 per day--enough to cover the cost. His FIL also used it before he passed, and neither had difficulty collecting.

Both of my parents are in an assisted living facility; my DM has Alzheimer's and needs a secured environment and my DF wanted to be where he could visit frequently. He's in a wheelchair but otherwise very healthy at 93. They are private-pay at $157 for her and $87 for him per day. I do his pills, which saves $13 per day.

Our financial guy says it is very difficult to find LTC insurance these days since most companies have gone out of business. The average stay in a nursing home is a little over 2 years, and he suggested covering that cost with a different kind of insurance than LTC, but I can't remember what it was. My DD just got a job with a major insurance company, though, and part of her benefit package was an offer of LTC to parents and grandparents. I'm going to check it out.

I mainly agree with whomever on the other thread said it's best to save for your own care.

Dee

I have checked in to long term care insurance a couple of times. My parents had a very sizable retirement set aside so when my Dad needed 24/7 care we supplemented with their personal money over what Medicare was paying for in home costs.

My Dad had in home care givers after we had a 10 day stay in a nursing home. The nursing home almost killed him and the rest of the 6 months of his life was in his own home with me, an RN by profession, overseeing his care by home health nurses and PT and his MD and wound care specialists. It was all very very expensive but we luckily, as I said, had money.

LTC insurance would have helped very little for what we needed. If you haven't looked in to what hourly care costs in the home or what assisted living costs, then I suggest that you do so.

If you purchase a policy now based on what things cost now and want great coverage you are going to pay a huge premium. You will likely not need the policy for at least 20 or more years depending on how old you are now. So you are buying to cover the costs you think will be relevant in 20 or more years. That isn't realistic or possible.

There are NO insurance companies that are in business to help you. They are businesses and they are trying to make money. They will give you as little as they can for the most they can extract from you now. They are preying upon our societies fears and insecurities.

We all want to be taken care of and not suffer at the end of our lives. We want kind loving care that is competent and affordable. A few of us will be lucky enough to have all or part of that. Most of us will not.

Almost any savings plan you put your money into will reward you with more than ANY LTC insurance company. As noted above most of these companies have closed or stopped selling the LTC policies. Ask yourself why.

Escalating costs, increased longevity of the elderly , fewer and fewer workers in health care related fields for LTC . I am retired from RN Home Health. There isn't anything I haven't seen in rural AL. I took care of my Dad for 6 months in his home with every possible atrocious and wonderful care situation you can imagine. When he passed away I brought my Momma to live with DH and I. We were lucky to have her. She was dx with lymphoma right after she arrived. After what we went through with paid help I wouldn't have trusted anyone else to provide her care no matter what it cost to have her at home. No one will love or take care of your family member as you will. There are exceptions to all of this. After what my family and I went through we chose the best alternative for us.

Save for yourself. Do not expect any agency to do it for you. Provide for yourself as much as you can and then hope for the best . My crystal ball is no better than yours or the insurance agency's or the governments'. I have no idea what will befall me or the ones I love in 20-30 years. I will do my best. I will not rely on insurance. c

LTC is a gamble like all forms of insurance. I knew a woman who had a LTC policy that covered nearly 100% the cost in excess of Medicare for the nursing facility care required for the eight years prior to her death at 99 yrs old. The policy more than paid for itself in the first few months though she carried the insurance for 40 yrs. OTH, I knew a wonderful gent who died at 88 after paying for top of the line LTC policy to the tune of $1,500 per year for 20 yrs. He did not have an opportunity to make use of the policy, but had he required it the cost of NH might have bankrupted him though he had a sizable savings. His widow would have had just a smidgen left.

FWIW, I received a recent quote for the same LTC coverage and the policy was $5,000 due to the skyrocketing cost of care and gender, though I was several years younger than he when he bought his policy. Still, at $5k per annum, that's not enough to self-fund home health care cost for an extended period. Will I need coverage? My crystal ball is cloudy on that issue.

Caroline is right that caring for a loved one at home is sometimes the better route if one has quality nursing assistance. However, there are many situations though where the level of care and equipment required might be beyond what is reasonable in a home. Though every facility needs the watchful eye of a loving advocate, there are NHs that provide quality care and the right social setting that may be best for a loved one. Every case is different. For a childless single person who may not want to leave an estate to family or charitable institution(s), LTC may not be worth it. For many others, LTC may prove to be a godsend.

I mainly agree with whomever on the other thread said it's best to save for your own care.

Unfortunately, It's only realistic for the Upper Class. A mom and dad working two jobs just to make ends meet, there's no way they can afford to save for nursing home care. That's a luxury most people will never be able to do. Or to buy the insurance.

It sure wouldn't hurt to check into it though. It could be a lifesaver, literally! lol

My parents were certainly not "upper class". They just saved their money rather than buying a bunch of unnecessary stuff. These days, many believe they should be taken care of by the government AND keep all their money to leave their kids. The government is us, so while my parents pay for their own care and my brother and I save for our own when the time comes, we're also paying for everyone who figures out how to hide their assets.

And, I think most people can save money. Everyone has fat in their budget that can be put away for the future. I see young (and old) people all the time at the gas station, plunking down several dollars at a time for a drink and candy bar, because it's convenient. I chastise my daughter all the time for the same mindless spending. Yes, there is a time in everyone's life when money is tight, but it is usually not lifelong.

The problem is it's an immediate gratification society, and tomorrow is but a faint glimmer. Sacrificing today's want for tomorrow's need is an anomaly. It used to be the norm.

My mother in law was in a nursing home for over 10 years. Her mother was in a home for over 20 years disabled by a massive stroke. FIL had a limited term LTC policy that covered three years for MIL. As far as I know they had no problem with payout. After that FIL used his savings to pay for remaining years.

I have LTC insurance that I got during an open enrollment period offered via my employer. Employer doesn't pay the premium but since I would not qualify were it not for the open enrollment, I signed up thinking I can always cancel. I think I've paid three years now. After two years the premimum went up a bit and I questioned whether or not to continue. I went ahead for another year. It's with Prudential who has since discontinued the offering I took advantage of. Not sure if they've stopped LTC for any new subscribers or if it was just the employer related offering.

It's definitely a crapshoot - whether or not you'll ever use it.

duplicate post

This post was edited by gibby3000 on Tue, Oct 8, 13 at 12:42

Be sure to check your own state's LTC information.

Here's one answer from Florida's Frequently Asked Questions concerning LTC...

"Some financial experts recommend that you spend no more than 5 percent of your income on a policy or certificate. Following this recommendation means that you would need an annual income of at least $60,000 to afford a $3,000 policy or certificate that would provide all the benefits for a range of care. Of course, the price of your policy or certificate will depend partly on your health status, your age and the benefits you choose.

Carefully evaluate your sources of income. If you have large investments to protect, such as houses, businesses or stocks, it might be a good idea to buy a long-term care policy or certificate. This is especially true if you do not want to use all of your savings and assets to pay for long-term care. However, if you are living on a limited income, such as Social Security benefits or a small pension, a long-term care policy or certificate may not be the best way to spend your money."

Here is a link that might be useful: Linky to Florida's FAQ re: LTC

I agree with Dee. It's not only upper class!! My grandparents again are a perfect example. They lived through the depression era. There was a time my grandparents, one of his siblings and their spouse all lived in one house with my great greandmother. My grandfather (he took care of the finances) put aside money for their retirement from the time they were a young couple. He took out life insurance policies to provide for my grandmother and his chlldren.

My husband and I have planned for our future all along. We have always felt that we are to take care of ourselves. We both work - at least for now and even if we had children - I hope I would not expect them to take care of us.

So yes, it can be done. You invest, many do choose insurance, etc. I'm definitely going to talk further with our financial advisor and what we should do. Because we have no children it may not be wise for us to have life insurance policies. I know my FIL cashed his out and invested that money. He died of cancer but his investments have certainly helped make my MIL comfortable financially. I'm not so sure life insurance - at least policies over a certain amount - are such a good idea if there are no children and no debts to worry about if one spouse outlived the other.

Certainly food for thought!

tina

Times have changed so much that I'm not sure you can compare our parent's and grandparent's financial fortitude to the problems people face today.

I think Suze Orman is worth listening to. She speaks regularly on PBS about financial responsibility and planning at a level most people can understand. She is trying to educate people and I think she is making a contribution to society doing this. As well as a lot of money, of course, but I think her heart is in a good place and her advice sound. But what do I know. How many people get financial planning training growing up. I sure didn't.

Hmmm, well I guess it's good that nobody is saying "good luck when it comes time for payout..."

We have lived frugally and saved for a nice retirement. But I'm loathe to see it whittled down to nothing, at $100K/year if that could be avoided. My husband is fifteen years older than I am, so one of my thoughts is that if he did need care, I would likely be the one left with nothing for my future. I'm really just trying to figure out if they actually do pay for what you need, as they claim to. Or if they function more like home warranties, and kind of weasel out of things. For example, our home warranty said the company would repair appliances whenever possible, and replace when repair wasn't an option. That sounded reasonable, unit we needed to use it, and had to pay the $75 co-pay six times to repair a $300 dishwasher over and over again. So that's the scenario I'm trying to avoid with a LT policy. Thinking we're all set, and finding out too late it's a bit of a scam....

Well, I will listen to myself and see what Suze has to say, lol. She does not seem to have a problem with it and gives some pointers.

I just pulled the first link from a search.

Here is a link that might be useful: Suze Orman - LTC

I looked into it for my parents twice, but the first time my mother's financial advisor convinced her that it was not worth the money, and because of that she didn't take me seriously the second time. The second time I looked into a program open to federal employees and their relatives, and it looked like the coverage was good (but the premium for my mom would have been $400 a month). Premiums increased substantially with age, so I suspect the key is figuring out a good age at which to sign up (not so young that you're paying premiums for such a long time that it cancels out the benefit, but not so old that premiums are beyond reach).

I wish that my mom hadn't listened to her financial advisor, and that she'd been open to a LTC policy, because I know that I am the one who would end up filing the financial gap if one or both of them needed long term care at a level and length of time that would deplete their savings and investments. For the peace of mind, it would have been worth the high premiums, which I offered to pay myself. At her current age, 69, I doubt she'd qualify for anything that we could afford, and my dad wouldn't qualify at all because he has cancer.

A LTC policy for my parents would ease my mind because I know how illnesses that require full time care over a long time period can eviscerate savings. My grandfather had alzheimers for 15 years, and spent the last 10 of them in an assisted living facility. My grandmother kept him at home as long as possible (longer than made sense, to be perfectly frank), but the reality is, given his strength, his diminished mental capacity, and later health complications, he needed the kind of care that only a LTC facility or a full time live-in nurse could provide. This was in the 80s and 90s but it cost thousands a month. Despite being hardworking, a saver, living a frugal lifestyle (to the point of growing their own produce in the summer and freezing and canning it for winter), and having a pension, paying for care for that many years took all of my grandmother's retirement savings. So once the money, inevitably, ran out, they had to go on medicaid and my mom helped with living expenses. I am very worried about facing a similar situation with my parents, particularly since costs are higher now, and I live in an area with an extremely high cost of living.

Just think about stories you read about people who have a major illness with medical costs that cause bankruptcy, then multiply that financial impact across multiple years. Planning for an emergency, or even setting aside money for a comfortable retirement, is not going to cover full time care for years. As I understand the costs, it would be like sending a child to an elite private college --- and few people can afford that for more than 4 years even if they have been putting money aside since the child's infancy. Paying that annually, indefinitely, can make a mockery of even the best laid financial plans. The odds are that most people will not need that kind of care, but if you do the financial costs are devastating.

Thanks robin -we got min/mid/max quotes from our agent. The max plan, with a lifetime cap of $330,000/60 months/$5500/month, and the annual premium for that is $4300. I'm mentioning this because my husband is the same age as your mother, although I can imagine the price may vary by gender.

Both my mom, her sister, and now my MIL all had LTC. They all had different coverage. My mother used it for about 8 yrs. We started out conservatively using it 6 hrs a day during the week and gradually increased her hours till finally ATC care was needed.
She always wanted to stay at home. She was able. She was well cared for. She had to pay her premiums until the final payment was made. You get what you pay for. She never had problems qualifying. As long as you need help with 2 activities of daily living, you qualify. Feeding, dressing, bathing, medication, mobility. . .
She would never have saved the money on her own. $56/month. She also had memory problems, first. It was automatic. We were glad she had it, so that she could end her life as she wished. Same with her sister, who had a larger policy, and is still using it. We would have had to do a reverse mortgage, but now her house is free and clear.

MIL has a huge policy; she waited until right before the deadline to get it. That was 1 day before she turned 80. (more expensive, but you pay for less time) $800/mo. She is sharp. She used her SS, which she didn't need due to rental income. The day she started using it, she stopped her premium. Even if she saved that $800/mo, over 10 yrs, she'd only have $96,000. Now she has $350,000 to use.(John Hancock) At ATC, though that doesn't go too far. Fortunately, right now she only needs 8 hrs/day. There are also provisions in the policy to do $10,000 worth of modifications should the need arise. She also would rather stay at home. Now, she is saving that monthly premium, since she's never got used to using it, for more $, should she need it later on.
I think it is a godsend to those you leave behind as well as those who really want to stay at home. There is a reason why the average stay in a nursing home is 2 yrs. You will never get the care and loving attention as you would at home.

Thank you la_jan, that was helpful. I'm honestly surprised nobody has posted with any "good luck when it comes time to use it" kind of stuff. Makes me think we will probably go ahead and sign up....

thanks bestyears! Those premiums are encouraging; maybe the policy I looked into before was just unusually expensive. I will look into it again. DH & I hope to start a family soon so I'm worried about facing the double whammy of childcare and eldercare expenses.

For elderly staying in their own home that require help or going into a LTC facility in many states couples are told to divide all assets in half. The person that needs assistance only uses their 1/2. If depleted they go on medicaid. The other spouse does not loose their home or their half. At the death of the spouse living in the home medicaid will want a portion of the home to defray the monies they have been paying.