Just one more example of rewarding someone for bad behavior. When will the madness end? When the American public stops idolizing sports figures and put their minds and sensibilities where they should be.

I, personally, think if he does well on the field, people will forget. They won't care. That's how it goes in this country . . .

I heard some interview on the radio with a journalist who had followed his career closely. He said that there was another side to MV, that he did a lot of charity work (like visits to children in hospitals) and that his main rule was that there be no press. He said he had a hard time seeing how these two MVs could be the same person-- why such a contrast.

I don't know. From what I've heard briefly from sports news, it seems like many players get involved with things ranging from drug usage to domestic violence to murder. What happens to them? Are they usually let back on teams, once jail time is done?

Plenty of people routinely participate in animal abuse on some level. I mean, as a society, we typically get our meat/dairy from animals raised in horrible conditions. People buy dogs and cats from pet stores. People breed animals just to show their children how the miracle of life works. People get rid of pets just because they are "moving." I am one of those people . . .while I am a vegetarian and I do buy free-range eggs, I do buy my family milk and meat (they are omnivores) that came from those said farms. Why? $. I am not saying it is a good reason, but it is my reason.

In other words, we want to point the finger at MV, but maybe we need to take a hard look at ourselves.

Anele, Of course we are all entitled to our own opinion, and I definately respect you for yours, but I think your post is comparing apples to oranges. While I don't in any way condone animal abuse of any kind or the way many animals are treating in other situations, especially places like puppy mills, comparing that to a man who would breed animals for the sole purpose of making them fight each other or other animals for his own satisfaction and monetary gain is sick. IMHO while the things you discuss are definately note worthy, they're just not comparable. Regardless of what this man has done in the publics' eye to make himself look good, this is a true reflection of who he is as a person and in my own personal opinion, he's not deserving of this new contract or any contract.

Well, I believe in giving people a second chance. I don't know what is in Vick's heart or mind. It is not impossible that after this year he sees the evils of his ways. May be he doesn't, but maybe he does.

I don't like it when people assume what my intentions, motivations or attitudes are, so I try to give the benefit of the doubt to others as well.

I can't always remain neutral ( I am offended by Vick's actions) but I always believe that I must remain curious (how do I know he hasn't learned something from all this?)

As for impressionable youth, I believe that's where family plays a larger role than athletes, rock stars, or super heroes. Talk to young people about the issue, & make it clear that often people with incredible gifts & talents are not necessarily healthy or stable.

Life is not simple. Good things happen to good people, but it is damaging to suggest to children that life is always fair. The sun shines on bad people too. These are important lessons to learn. I see adults who haven't learned these lessons & reality is a crushing burden for them.

I am surprised by my own new reaction to this-- I am a PA resident and while not an eagles (or football fan) most of my family and friends are. More importantly, I am an animal rights advocate and, in general, appalled by the behavior of most people with regards to respecting the earth, animals and other people.

Still.. I happened to catch an interview with MV last night. I was struck by how genuine and uncoached he was (and I think I have good instincts and am not generally swayed by others). He does plan to become involved in local animal rights-- humane societies and puppy mills and more specifically and targeted, fighting inner city dog fight networks. What MOST struck me, though, were his statements on what he has learned from the experience-- not just being in jail and away from his family and career-- but having to explain to his children what he did and what was wrong about it. I believe it was a very eye-opening experience for him. I also believe him when he says he has learned what it means to be a role model-- not just to his own kids but to the many fans young and old.

I am not a particularly religious person but I know many of you are. Isnt forgiveness part of your belief? He is not being rewarded-- he was punished and served his time. He is not being elevated to a hero-- he is wearing the badge of a man who has been convicted of a crime and has been punished. He has and is paying his price to society much more publicly than any of us would for a major or minor crime.

Will he slip back into old behaviors? Who knows-- but I am hoping that he will continue to use his celebrity to show us all that a man can reform and make good after causing so much harm. Religious or not, there is a potential lesson in rehabilitation, retribution and forgiveness here. There's also a lesson I think is so important to each of us and our children-- our lives are what we make of them. MV has an opportunity to really change the direction of his life.. it is now up to him. As it is up to each of us to, at each juncture, make good decisions or bad decisions. We can turn around our bad grades, bad habits, bad attitudes, illegal behaviors or we can continue to ride the to our demise. It's all up to us.

That's my 2 cents.

Excellent post, funkyart. And I'm an animal lover, too.

My biggest hope for him is that he becomes a role model of what we do when we screw up, even screw up big time. When we make mistakes, we pick ourselves up and do the best we can going forward now matter how much others desire to see us trip up. I also hope that he can affect a change in perspective for children now who are being brought up into that culture and that his aggregious mistakes can be a lesson to others who may be falling into the same pattern.

In most cases I try to steer clear from judging. I may not believe in organized religion, but that doesn't mean I'm not a giving and forgiving person. Everyone has their limits though and animal abuse, especially at this magnitude surpasses my limits. What he did, he did as a knowing and consulting adult. And he's responsible for that. Yeah, I know he served his time, but IMHO his punishment didn't fit the crime. Did you see pictures of some of the dogs he abused? I did and they made me physically ill. Believe me, he deserved a stronger punishment than what he got.

Live and let live, sure. Forgive and believe in change, absolutely, but this guy's actions are still too vivid in my memory for me to see beyond that. I resent that for whatever reason, his celebrety or even financial status, he got off so light. I wonder out of all the dogs that actually survived his abuse how many have even been able to heal completely from their injuries. And I wonder too how much of his own "Chaching" MV put up to care for them.

Before you or anyone else give him a lick of credit Funkyart, let's see what he accomplishes with this "2nd chance". Actions speak louder than words. I have good instincts too and for the kids who will ultimately see this guy as a role model, I hope they are wrong. Only time will tell.

lukkiirish, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. If you would look at pictures of the conditions animals have to survive in (I can barely say "live" in) simply so that we can all partake in the excess of animal products . . .well, I think we, as a society, are ALL a part of the problem. It is blatant animal abuse, IMO. I am not saying eating meat is animal abuse, but not providing humane treatment while they are alive is. Even if you only care about human animals, the meat packing industry is very dangerous for humans. I don't know how much things have truly improved since "The Jungle." (Sorry, don't know how to italicize!)

If people do not knowingly do it, then it's time to get educated. However, most people I know who do NOT know chose that. They say, "Just bring me my meat nicely packaged and I won't ask any questions."

Thank you funkyart. I'm certainly not going to sit on my holier than thou high horse hoping the man rots in hell, or rots on Earth until he dies.

I truly hope he learned a lesson and is able to live a normal life again. He did his time, that is ALL society asked of him to do.

And yes, I am a Christian, and yes, we are SUPPOSED to forgive others.

I certainly don't remember Jesus cheering on the prisoner's impending death hanging on the Cross next to him. ;)

I'm not going to talk anymore on this subject and try to forget what I've read here, especially by those who claim to be Christians. It's one of the reasons I don't go to church anymore.

He served the sentence imposed on him by our legal system. If this was inadequate, then outrage also needs to be directed to said system and so that changes can be made to insure that sentences are in line with what our society deems to be necessary for such crimes.

He won't slip into old behaviors because he is being watched. Whether or not he wouldn't have anyway is something only he can know. I don't pretend to know his mind. Maybe he *did* grow a conscience in jail. Wouldn't it be nice if the system actually worked for a change?!

I am not nor will I ever be an Eagles fan, so they haven't lost anything with me. But if he had signed with the Ravens, I would never watch another game, never dye my hair purple for playoffs, throw out all my Ravens stuff, maybe even burn the shirts. Quite frankly, regardless of his sincerity and apology, the NFL is in serious trouble with PR, between the thugs and the pay etc. and letting him play was just dumb on their part. Lots of people are fed up with professional sports in general, the NFL in particular, and this does not help their quest for respect. IMHO of course.

Religion is a taboo subject at GW same with politics unless you're willing to tread the shark-infested waters on Hot Topics.

My contribution to this thread ... a local man was convicted of animal cruelty because he watched as his pit bull killed a kitten. An idiot judge gave him a sentence of community service at the local animal control center. The center's director said no way in hell was that man getting near any of their animals.

Anele, thanks for your response -- Deal :c) All the same though, I hope you don't misunderstand. I respect and totally agree with what you're saying as whole i.e. People in general need to be more aware and/or educated about the fact that animal cruelty exists in many forms. All of which need reform.

The one problem I have with all this is that MV didn't just make one mistake, one choice with regard to animal abuse and atrocities. This was a lifestyle for him until he got caught. He abused animals for years, and it appears it didn't give him pause while he was doing it. Did he "think of his family and kids" then? It doesn't appear that he did. He got caught and now he's being closely watched. The only way he could get back in the game is to spout repentance and regret. I'm sorry, but I just don't buy it. I'll try to be less cynical by saying that I sincerely hope I'm wrong and he really has seen the light and has become a caring human being.

Ditto to what Meghane and mmrsmarv said.

I don't buy the man's apologies and statements of regret and repentance. he was caught between a rock and a hard place. He had to say something, for goodness sake! The entire country was watching and waiting. He had no choice but to say he was remorseful. He's only sorry he got caught.

There is nothing wrong with a heated conversation with differing views. I believe opinions are based on each persons own life experiences which is why an exchange of opinions can be so interesting. However, just because someone has a different view than yours doesn't mean she/he is coming off as Holier than THOU. Religion absolutley has nothing to do with it and we should all be able to feel we can freely express our opinions in this forum without the fear of backlash or disrespect from another member. Just because there are opposing views, doesn't mean one person's view is any more or less valid than another persons view.

lukk, I hear ya! :)

mrsmav: I really do not know . . .I'm just supposing here . . .but COULD it be that, his "posse" led him down this path? From the radio interview I mentioned, the journalist said that was one of the strangest things about MV, that he would actually bring them to practice with him. Apparently, this is unheard of. Could it be that he just sort of did what other people told him to, and since he was surrounded by people who actually encouraged this (or even introduced him to it), he did not know to what extent it is wrong? Or, maybe there is just something WRONG with him mentally.

I have 2 pitt bulls who were rescued from people like Michael Vick.

I don't think Michael Vick has proven he is "reformed" or "changed." I have never heard him once say "I'm so sorry I mutilated, tortured and made those dogs live a horrible exsistance for my own entertainment." I've never heard him say "I am so sorry I beat, drowned and electrocuted those poor helpless animals." He's never said "The dogs did not deserve what I did to them." Does anyone get what I'm saying? Where is the real remorse? All those "I did something wrong" or "I made bad decisions" statements are bogus and mean nothing. Bad decision. Putting on leather dress shoes with black socks matched with purple shorts, is a bad decision, not making the conscious decision to mutilate, torture and kill dogs. Of all the things he did to those dogs the thing that makes me the most angry is the rape devices he used on female dogs. That is so far beyond my comprehension and enrages me. He was guilty of raping dogs. How sick is that?

Did someone say he was possibly led by his posse? Oh my God, and forgive me for mentioning God, but what is Vick, a 3 yr. old?

I would love to know about his Mother, Father, sisters and brothers? Do any of them have animals? What are their views about what he did? That would clear up a few questions I have. If a relative of mine did what he did, they would no longer exist as far as I'm concerned.

I think Michael Vick has to first prove his remorse before he is welcomed back into society with open arms. He has not proven anything except that he is a sociopath.

"the rape devices he used on female dogs.."

Geez, I never followed up with all the gory details but that is really, really horrible.

He can be truely sorry (I'm not convinced. Why would he say anything different? Can you see him standing there,"I thought it was funny. They're just dogs. . blah, blah." Of course he's not going to say that!), we can forgive (and I believe we should), but that doesn't mean they should allow him back in the NFL. Professional atheletes in general I think need a wake up call.

However, just because someone has a different view than yours doesn't mean she/he is coming off as Holier than THOU.

Thank you for expressing how I feel. There are obviously differing opinions on what is acceptable behavior and how we view what should happen to a person because of choices they make. It doesn't make anyone right or wrong. You're right about religion having nothing to do with it.

The term Christian keeps surfacing in certain posts when there are differing opinions and I have to say that I am offended by that. Noone has to ascribe to a certain religion to be worthy of G-d's love and acceptance. People are free to believe what they believe and to think for themselves, no matter what G-d or diety or personification (or not) they follow.
I'm a pretty cut and dry sort of gal, with very strong viewpoints about certain things. I really don't care what religion anyone is as long as they are good people and don't hurt others. I don't believe the terrible things done by some people should be forgiven and I don't feel the need to forgive the bad behavior and choices that some people make. But that's just my opinion.
I do believe that by not having people's forgiveness or acceptance, the people that commit these horrible acts will hopefully learn a very valuable lesson. The desire to be accepted and admired will make them work harder to be welcomed back into the fold. This shunning and non-forgiveness can aide them on their path to becoming a better person because they will strive to redeem themselves in the eyes of those most important to them. Sometimes the best lessons learned are the hard-earned ones. If we forgive so easily then the atrocious acts committed by these people become just a shadowy memory.
Just my two cents.

jones, I did not realize the extent of what horrible things he did to dogs. As for being led by a posse-- yes, I still think if there is something mentally wrong with him, the posse could have led him down this path (like a gang mentality-- some people do things they would probably not do if acting alone). . .Did he ever do these things alone? It does not in any way excuse him, though, unless, like I said, there is something terribly wrong with him mentally. And even so, I think, given what you've said he has done, there is no question that there IS something wrong with him mentally-- something very, very wrong. We all know that extreme cruelty to animals is a common beginning among serial killers. I would gather to say, he is most likely a psychopath. It is impossible for someone who is a psychopath to actually change.

I hope his kids and family watch their backs.

" Does anyone get what I'm saying? Where is the real remorse?"

I get exactly what you're saying. I watched the interview and I did not see one shred of remorse. Just a lot of blahblahblah pandering, "looking/acting" contrite. But I did not hear the words, the very important words that should have come out of his mouth. In order to really be sorry, a person needs to acknowledge exactly what they did wrong. They need to humble themselves by saying the words that need to be said, which are "I am sorry for fill-in-the-blanks".
You can dress these thugs and sociopaths up, but they're still thugs and sociopaths. Doesn't change a thing.

I just looked up the "rape stand" online. Apparently, it is not illegal but never used by dog breeders. They use it so that a mean female dog can be bred with another dog (normally, a dog that mean would bite any male dog coming close, so no breeding would occur). Someone breeding dogs (not for fighting) would never do that because they wouldn't breed a dog that would bite like that.

I don't know. I really wonder, how much of what MV has done IS "normal" in the area of dogfighting. I guess if it is normal in that culture, then I cannot assume he is a psychopath as I did. If it's "normal" then we have much, much bigger problems than just him because dogfighting is so widespread. We have to go back and look at our society, and why violence and cruelty is felt to be acceptable. Obviously, letting him play again is just one more sign that, ultimately, your actions don't matter as long as you make someone else money. Our country tries to promote itself as Christian, but really our g*d is Money. Money is the Supreme Being.

Here is a link that might be useful: Dogfighting Equipment

I was struck by how genuine and uncoached he was

If you ever heard MV speak before, you would realize just how coached this was.

but COULD it be that, his "posse" led him down this path?

I read that Andrew Young spent a lot of time with Vick trying to bring him into a better group of people in Atlanta, but Vick always turned back to his oldo friends in Virgina. So as far as I am concerned, there were lifelines thrown out to him; he chose not to grab them.

My heart went into my throat when I first heard about his return to football. I was watching the Washington DC news and they announced there would be a report from Baltimore about Vick's signing with a team. I started to feel physically ill thinking the Ravens had signed him. I feel so sorry for the Philadelphia football fans. I would be horrified if he signed with a team that I loved.

My point above is that I would like to believe that MV and a million other people are able to turn around their lives-- and that we as fellow members of a community are able to give them the opportunity and support to do so. Will he take this as a chance to make good? Only he knows-- it is up to him.

There are many on this board and in our own backyards who come from the "1 strike and you are out" camp... at least until they or someone they love gets caught up in something that takes them off path. How does that help our community? What does that teach our children? We don't gain anything by sending the message that you can't get out of the hole so you might as well keep digging. Hopelessness is more destructive than anything.

MV doesnt stand alone-- there is a huge network of dog fighting in this country. It's prevalent in the inner cities and in the backwoods. There are people in your own neighborhoods who abuse their animals (and their own families). A lack of respect for animals is woven into our culture and subcultures. Opening all our eyes to the problem is the start to a solution. If MV and his very public trial and punishment (and hopefully retribution) help to educate and bring down the networks then we are moving in the right direction.

Again, there are potential lessons to be had here. We all make mistakes-- every damn one of us-- what is more important than mistake is how you recover from it.

I feel I have been somewhat attacked and told what I should think and feel in place of my current stance. That's ok, I trust that it comes from a place of passion. I do understand having strong feelings on a topic. But I want to be very clear that I have put a great deal of thought into this. My thinking is very different from many of you but it isn't coming from a person who doesnt want to protect our animals or who is ignorant of the widespread abuse. I am not naive or ignorant. I DO know that people can change and turn themselves around. I believe in the power to do so. Will MV be one of those? I don't know-- but I do know that he has the power to change and I hope that he has and continues to do so. I'd love to see a poster child for the a successful turn around rather than yet another poster child for the abuse of position and money to fund destructive and abusive behavior.

Funkyart, I totally agree with both of your postings, thank you.

Deb

Funkyart - I put a great deal of thought into to. Vick has paid his debt to society, but that was only the first step.

There is a difference between turning your life around and turning it around and being paid multi-millions of dollars to play major league football. Football players are role models, and he has DONE nothing yet to deserve to be playing.

If he spent a few years coaching kids to play, then I would feel he would have a right to play again. But out of jail and directly onto the field - no way.

Graywings, I agree. It's like he got a slap on the wrist or a timeout and now he's rewarded with a $1.6 million contract. He's on 60 Minutes tonight. I'd like to hear what he has to say. See if my opinion changes.

Oh, Graywings, I totally agree that Vick has taken only a few steps towards making good. I thought I was pretty clear on that point... but if not, please know that I am not in the least defending him or his behavior and I do not put him anywhere NEAR a pedestal. Where he goes next is up to him...

As for deserving to play major league football.. that is a much different issue. There are many in the NFL, NBA, NBL and NHL who are not role models. Unfortunately, there are no rules to prevent someone from being elevated to celebrity status because they don't deserve it. A quick review of the athletes, actors and musicians in the spotlight reveals too few role models.

And that is why I am hoping Vick uses this as an opportunity to become a better person and to show the world that you CAN turn your life around and redeem yourself.

there are no rules to prevent someone from being elevated to celebrity status because they don't deserve it.

Aren't there moral clauses in football contracts? His celebrity will fade quickly if he isn't playing football, so society has the ability to control this.

There are many in the NFL, NBA, NBL and NHL who are not role models.

Are there any who have reached Michael Vick's level of depravity and are still playing? And whether there are or not, couldn't we call this level of depravity the bottom line?

funkyart, I'm with you. Thank you for your post - your family and friends are lucky to have you in their world! MV has Already been doing alot of work with/for the Humane Society.

Funny how he didn't realize the gravity of his crime until he was behind bars. Only then did he feel remorse. Football doesn't mean anything to him. And of course, he found God. He's got a long way to go to prove himself. Right now I'm still not buying it.

Well I am. I just listened to the interview on 60 minutes and I believe that he deserves a second chance. To me, he didn't try to excuse or dodge anything that he did but accepted full responsibility and wants to make an effort to teach others to learn from what he did.

Deborah, I watched the same interview before my last post. Funny how we interpreted what he said so differently.

Of course he deserves a second chance - just not playing football in the NFL.

Shortly after I posted my intial post to this thread I had an interesting reaction for me. Is that almost forgiveness that I'm feeling? Maybe not but it is hope and here's what I'm thinking:

I can't undo what's been done. He did what he did and the Eagles signed him. I can only move forward. I am hoping that MV will play a large part in animal rights. I hope that he will loudly and vociferously advocate for and educate on the humane treatment of animals. I hope that he has become a changed man and feels deeply for animals and all of their wonderfulness. If he can do that and mean it and feel it I will be a very happy woman. I will be happy for him.

Maybe I am becoming a better person. Who knows?!

I haven't read all the posts here but while I hope he has changed I don't think people like that ever change in their heart although their behavior might be reined in.

To me, he's in the same category as serial rapists, murderers, and pedophiles and how many of us would want one of those out on the streets?
Although they're everywhere.

Then Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis and Loretta Lyn's husband are in the same category that Bumble just named.

Funny how he didn't realize the gravity of his crime until he was behind bars.

I just happened to catch the 60 minutes interview last night and that is exactly the impression I came away with. It was the very first thing he said, and it was repeated later in the interview:

MICHAEL VICK: The first day I walked into prison, and he slammed that door, I knew, you know, the magnitude of the decisions that I made, and the poor judgment, and what I, you know, allowed to happen to the animals.

and later...

JAMES BROWN: When did you arrive at that feeling of disgust, Michael? When did the light go on?

MICHAEL VICK: When I was in prison. When I was in prison. I was disgusted, you know, because of what I let happen to those animals. I couldÂve put a stop to it. I couldÂve walked away from it. I couldÂve shut the whole operation down.

I agree with jones123 that he never really said that he was specifically sorry for what he did. To me it sounded more like he was sorry he'd gotten caught. And honestly, "disgusted" is a pretty mild word for the horrific things he perpetrated.

Also the phrases in the above quotes:
"and what I, you know, allowed to happen to the animals"
and
"what I let happen to those animals"
is like a sort of third person thing. It sounds to me that he's not really saying that HE did anything, but rather he is implying that others did it while he didn't stop it.

I have never heard him speak before but this and other things he said really did make him seem coached to me. It seemed like he'd been made to memorize a few lines about how wrong it was, and how he deserved to be punished, etc. But what really got me was the idea that he didn't KNOW it was wrong at the time because no one ever told him it was wrong.

VO: ItÂs a message Vick says he never heard when he was a kid in Newport News, Virginia, where he was first exposed to dog fighting when he was eight years old.

MICHAEL VICK: I was introduced very young, so I didnÂt think it was wrong because IÂd seen older guys, you know, condoning it and then, you know, doing it.

Uh huh.

Here is a link that might be useful: Michael Vick's '60 Minutes' interview

I'm afraid I don't see how someone can do things such as that and not realize what they're doing or seeing. I do believe it's probably just part of a culture that he was raised in, but something's gotta be missing inside with people who can do those sorts of things and not have it register somewhere. I also don't think someone can just change that type of thinking so Quickly. Maybe there are intense programs in prison? It just doesn't seem too plausible to me. It would take a lot of time and reprogramming to reach that point, imo. Hopefully he's at least on his way. I did not see the interview to really see how much progress he claims to have made.

I also don't understand the connection to NFL, with regards to people's outrage. I can sort of see what people are saying, but I still see them as separate. I don't believe in shunning or bullying people. He's out of prison now, as far as punishment goes, and he needs to move on. Hopefully forward. If someone wants to hire him, then that's their business. I don't see it as some sort of a reward for bad behavior. Apparently he does what he does well, so that's why he's back.

I'm not sure why his salary was reduced as it was -- from ~$134 million down to ~$1.6 million (the numbers may not be completely accurate). Specifically why? To offset potential losses due to public outrage? Cause they could manage to keep a whole lot of money? It's really not their job to punish him further, so I don't quite get that. But, what I think would have been really great, since they did reduce his salary, is if they had put all that money to good use working on animal protection and rights. $132 million. It would have been demonstrable if he'd actually offered to do it, but still quite something if the NFL had, as their own statement and support.

I don't think the way someone feels or doesn't feel about that evil man should define what kind of person they are ie a good, better or not so good. He definately does NOT deserve that priviledge. It will also take many years not just 18 mos and many good deeds, not just words to get ANY KIND of forgiveness or empathy from me. I know I'm a good person I don't need anyone to confirm that to me and there is nothing wrong with having a strong conviction about what's right or whats wrong. I certainly wouldn't compromise that for the likes of him. It would be so much more productive if we could turn all the energy and concern we have about this issue towards the animals who's lives he and others like him have ruined. Like I asked before, I wonder just how much of his own "Cha Ching" he has donated towards the rehabilitation of the very animals he distroyed?

...what I think would have been really great, since they did reduce his salary, is if they had put all that money to good use working on animal protection and rights. $132 million. It would have been demonstrable if he'd actually offered to do it, but still quite something if the NFL had, as their own statement and support.

Can't argue with that!

"they did reduce his salary"....Not quite. He got terminated by his former Atlanta team, and re-signed by the Philly team. It's like being fired from one job and rehired at a lower salary. No pity from me about that. I was actually believing what MV was saying until the interviewer pointed out MV has hired a four-person team of media experts. I wonder who's paying them since he declared bankrupcy and has no current income. I guess I'm so cynical since I get so sick of politicians pulling fast ones and them hiring media spinsters to polish their public images.

deborahjnj:

Why would you say this?

"Then Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis and Loretta Lyn's husband are in the same category that Bumble just named."

Deborahnj, lumping child bride marriages - and I do find it heinous- with truly evil infant pedophilia, is trivializing a terrible crime.

Dating/marrying very young girls? I think that was pretty common ages ago, and I think maybe particularly down South. ?

"To me, he's in the same category as serial rapists, murderers, and pedophiles and how many of us would want one of those out on the streets?
Although they're everywhere."

This is what caught my attention. When Elvis dated and was sexually active with Priscila, she was 14 and he was an adult. Doesn't that constitute statutory rape and pedophilia?

Jerry Lee Lewis was involved with a 13 year old. I believe that Loretta Lynn was 14 when she got married and/or became involved with her husband.

To me those three men would fall into the same category as what Bumble indicated above.

Bumble, for the record, I was sexually molested so I would never trivialize anything of that nature.

Thirteen and fourteen is too young to be involved with someone, moreless a grown man, but I think marriages like that were accepted more back then and down South. Times change very gradually. I don't think they were coming from the same place as a pedophile does.

I think Priscilla might refute your statement, Deborah.

Priscilla

Loretta married young in at attempt to get away from an impoverished lifestyle.

Loretta

Jerry Lee Lewis was white trash just like his cousin Jimmy Swaggert.