Where are you located, in an Amazon rain forest?

3 tons sounds like a tad too much. Oversizing an a/c will result in a cold, muggy house. Also, if you are upsizing, your duct system may not be designed to handle the required airflow (noisy).

What is/was your current unit's tonnage (and that of the Bryant unit)? Did it run (almost) constantly on the hottest day? Were you comfortable?

Your contractors should provide you with a printed heat calculation and discuss the 'quality' of your duct system.

V

Ask for proof the Trane setup qualifies for the tax credit, because I don't think it does since it's not a 95% furnace or 13 EER/16 SEER A/C. If you go this way, you want the XC80 furnace for sure, because this is the communicating furnace needed with the rest of those components.

The Bryant unit is very nice (not that the Trane isn't but I'm not a big fan of the XL16i's performance specs for its 2-stage operation). I would consider the Trane XL15i properly sized to your home and forget the XL16i, since the XL16i isn't the greatest 2-stage unit out there and there isn't a big difference between its high and low stage operation. For the Bryant, consider the variable speed Evolution furnace and perhaps Evolution controller for a much better setup.

Hi guys :))
We are not located in the Amazon rain forest but in Diamond Bar (Los Angeles suburb) lol.

veesubotee: the current A/C system is 2.5 ton and tended to work fine until now. The second floor of our townhome was typically always 10 degrees warmer but I was told my the A/C techs that we need a fan to mix the air on the second floor to fix this issue. I recall the old A/C running for a long periods but not constantly during hot days. And, I was confortable. No one who gave us in-home quotes did any calculations. They all just looked around.

RyanHugues: Thanks for the tip regarding the tax credit. We would be doing the Trade 16 SEER setup mainly to get the tax credit so, we need to double check on that. I also read on the issues on the XL16i and I am concerned there. I will also get quotes for the Evolution furnace and controller.

We also got a quote for Trane XL15i with XV80 furnace for $7910 minus Trane Rebate of $300. Total $7600. No tax credit but seems a little expensive to me.

Do you find that these prices are consistent with the work done especially for Bryant?

I think I could bring the quote down from Trane by removing the Clean Effects system which I don't think we really need.

Would it be a good idea to get a quote from American Standard (sister co. for Trane) or other companies?
Thanks-
Sonia

"the current A/C system is 2.5 ton and tended to work fine until now. The second floor of our townhome was typically always 10 degrees warmer but I was told my the A/C techs that we need a fan to mix the air on the second floor to fix this issue. I recall the old A/C running for a long periods but not constantly during hot days. And, I was confortable. No one who gave us in-home quotes did any calculations. They all just looked around." KEEP LOOKING.

It sounds like your present unit is sized very close to your actual heat gain. Your problem could be that your compressor has worn to the point where it cannot pump as efficiently, or possibly your system has lost (leak) refrigerant.

I assume by fan, he is referring to a ceiling fan. These usually benefit a single room rather than a floor. 2nd floor problems are frequently due to poor ductwork design or installation, resulting in a lack of airflow to the rooms or insufficient returns.

You need to find someone who can evaluate/upgrade your duct system. But please don't oversize. How is the noise level when your a/c is running?

V

Hi veesubotee

"How is the noise level when your a/c is running? "

When our A/C is running, it is loud!! We definitely need something quieter.

"You need to find someone who can evaluate/upgrade your duct system"
If we update the duct system, don't they have to tear into the walls and would something like that be very expensive?

Thanks for your advice-
Sonia

Okay, my husband and I were discussing your comments. First, last Summer, there was a difference between the first and second floor swith the second floor typically being hotter. With our current 2.5 ton Bryant (the one needing replacement), we usually would be able to cool it to a comfortable level simply by turning down the thermostat 2-3 degrees. Hence, it was working fine!! We also don't have any returns on the second floor so, that does create an issue there!

I am concerned that from all 3 tech guys, no one did any calculations. The Trane guy recommended the SEER 16 (3 ton/stages) without any calculations?? So, per your advice, we will keep looking!

At this stage and after doing research on this forum for Bryant systems, I am leaning toward getting the
-Bryant Preferred 165A (2.5 ton) (quoted by one company tech and recommended as very good equipment)
-Bryant Evolution 80% furnace (recommended in forum)
-Bryant Evolution control.
I have emailed 6 Bryant dealers in our area to get quotes for the same system. So, we will see what prices we get!

Let me know if you have any advice on the system that we are considering or any other feedback Thank you all so much for your responses!
Sonia

The above Bryant system is very good. Quiet too. Definitely want to get a return upstairs if possible by any means. Really helps.

How do you figure out the matching evap coil and get the performance/efficiency numbers? After reading some replies on this forum, I just don't understand that part. Can someone please give me a quick 101 on this and explain what this is important?
Thanks-

These systems have combination ratings, and different coils will give slightly different performance/efficiency results.

Bryant coils will take the form CNPVP3617ATA, or similar.

Once you get the quotes back, we can tell you what the system actually yields in terms of efficiency.

One more thing: (Most dealers are already quoting them, but...) Make sure you get the tin-plated copper coil; it has an "ATA" in the model number and should carry a 10-year warranty. Holds up better to corrosion compared to the "ACA" coils, which few even quote anymore.

Ryan-
Thanks for your explanation. Before confirming the order with the company, I will post here again and get your advice.

I read some good things about York on this forum. What would be a comparable system in the York product line? Any opinions out there on York systems?

York's ECM modulating furnace YP9C and CZE 2-stage air conditioner with matching coil is a very good setup, with a great warranty (10 years all parts, lifetime compressor, lifetime heat exchanger). Could also go with the properly-sized single-stage A/C but I believe the warranty lessens a bit then (would have to double check). The ECM mod furnace has many more stages of heating than the Bryant.

Okay, after getting several quotes, we need some advice on selecting the best system for the best prices out of these 3 following quotes:

#1 Steve's Service (A+ Rating BBB)
BRYANT
165 A Puron 15 SEER / 2.5 ton
315JAV Evolution 80% /(70 BTU) / variable speed
CE (coil) / 3 ton
Bryant 7 day programmable / wireless thermostat
(technician said that it shows Bryant on stat but not made by Bryant? could not locate this one Bryant web site)
4" media filter
replacing all current registers with bar type registers
20 years warranty for heat exchanger from manuf.
10 years on compressor from manuf.
10 years parts/labor from company
$5600 minus $400 Bryant rebate = $5200 out of pocket cost
$5200 minus $1500 tax credit + $3700 actual cost
And, since the Evolution furnace will push up the system the SEER to 16, Steve (tech) told us that we would qualify (with certificate from manuf.) for the $1500 tax credit
Is this correct?

#2 AC COOL (A+ BBB)
Bryant 165 A / 2.5 ton
Bryant312(3AV036)80% 2 speed 70 BTU
Evap Coil CNRPT 2.5 ton
Pro line thermostat
4" media filter
replacing all current registers with bar type registers
20 years warranty for heat exchanger from manuf.
10 years on compressor from manuf.
10 years parts/labor from company
$5800 minus $300 Bryant rebate
Actual cost: $5500 (no tax credit)

#3 Air Concepts (A+ BBB)
American Standard
Model: R410A / 4A7A5030B1000A 15 SEER / 2.5
Furnace: variable speed / AMT2B060A9U3VA / 95% / 60 BTU
Evap. coil: 4X4C38/80
Honeywell 8000 thermostat
4" media filter
replacing all current registers with bar type registers
30 years warranty for heat exchanger from manuf.
10 years on compressor from manuf.
2 years parts/labor from company
1 year maintenance
1 extra 4" filter
$5987 minus $1500 (tax credit) = $4587
$4587 minus $200 (gas company rebate = $4287

So far, quote #1 seems to be a quality system for a good price. We would like to make the decision over the next couple of days. Let me know what system looks the best Are we missing anything here in these quotes?

Thanks a bunch !!

I don't like the equipment being quoted in setup 2. Setups 1 and 2 seem more favorable. Forget about the wireless thermostat and go for the much better Evolution controller with that system. I would suggest getting the parts and labor warranty from the manufacturer, NOT the installer. The warranty on the American Standard will be 10 years from the factory as long as you register it within 60(?) days. Ask your dealer about this--American Standard/Trane just changed this today. For the Bryant coil, see about getting the Bryant OEM coil, not a 3rd-party coil. The tin-plated Bryant coils have a 10-year warranty.

At least in my area, you'd be looking at around at least $1000 more initial cost on those systems from most dealers. Looks like it's just your area, because your quotes seem to be from reputable dealers.

We are unable to get the Evolution control because our old AC set up is a 2 or 3 wire and the Evolution control needs to be 4 or 5 wire. So, the only way to do this would be to run a wire through the living room around the walls. And, that just doesn't work for me!

Hi Ryanhughes-
We decided to go with the proposal from Steve's Air:
-Bryant 165 A
-Evolution Furnace 80%
-Bryant 7-day wireless programmable thermostat
for $5600 minus $1500 tax credit

After speaking with the technicians quoting equipment and with everything I learned from this forum, I am very comfortable with my choice. Installation is this coming Friday. I think we got a great system for a great price!

Thanks again everyone for your input!
Sonia

Does the Bryant 165ANA qualify for the tax credit? We are looking at buying one and the sales person told us that it would qualify for the tax credit, but someone else told us it has to be 16 seer or over to qualify. When I look it up online at the Federal Tax Credit website, it also says 16 seer or above. The brochure says the Bryant 165A is 15 Seer. I'm confused. Is it different if someone gets a heater/cooler package?
http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=products.pr_tax_credits#c3

Sonia, if you don't mind me asking, what did he quote you for just the 165A? For a 3 ton, we got a quote for $3,811 and $2,853 for a 114A. Is that reasonable? We're in NV so humidity is not a problem. We are thinking about going with the 114A because of the huge cost savings and the features are not a big difference for us. All the newer models are so much more efficient than the old ones. Any suggestions?

Nlauten what is the efficiency of your furnace? If it's 95+ AFUE, that qualifies you for the tax credit for 30% of the installed cost. Some matchups may allow the A/C itself to reach the 13 EER/16 SEER requirements. Need full model numbers to determine this (sizing included).

Just getting a new central A/C unit. Would love new furnace but not in our budget. Our furnace is 12 years old so I don't think it has great efficiency (I'm not sure what rating it is).

So I don't know if we should opt for the more expensive efficient A/C with the tax credit, or get the cheaper Bryant 113A model.

I can't figure out if the Bryant 165A qualifies for the tax credit. I will call the seller to make sure they can provide me with a Certification for tax credit. One place on the Federal Tax Cut website says over 16 Seer and one place says over 14.5 Seer for just a central A/C unit. I'm confused.
http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=products.pr_tax_credits#c3
http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=airsrc_heat.pr_crit_as_heat_pumps

I'm worried the seller is telling us it will qualify for a tax credit to make a sale but at the EOY we will find out it really didn't. How do we find out for sure?

Ok, just did more research online found out that my retailer is not telling me the whole truth. From what I've found for buying just an A/C unit, some of the Bryant 165A models will qualify for the tax credit, but ONLY IF THEY ARE 16 SEER or higher:
http://66.98.196.147/bryant-tax/intro2.php

So the quote they gave me for just the 15 SEER would not qualify for the tax credit. Ticks me off. I asked the guy who came out and also called the lady assigned to our quote. Maybe they are mis-informed, but for heaven sake, it's their product line. I would have had a nasty surprise at tax time. Not sure now if I should still go with this retailer or pay more and go with someone else. Anyone else had a similar situation?

You won't get much above 13 SEER without a variable speed furnace, so don't buy the Preferred 15 based on its efficiency. It is a great, quiet unit, but the Legacy 13 (123ANA) would probably be better fit if just replacing A/C. Both are good units. The 113ANA is the builder/base model.