I think your opening right now is crowded on the right hand side but giving a whole 12" to it seems like a lot to me.

The view is not going to be symmetrical anyway since the base cabinets face different directions, unless you commit to getting rid of the U altogether.

If you eliminate 12" of upper altogether I think it would look strange unless you also eliminated 12" of lower, and that's getting rid of a pretty awesome big drawer cabinet.

Would you consider doing 12" of open shelving for display right at the end? That would make it more logical to keep the lower cabinet to near the opening. Or, all open shelving along that wall? Or, pull upper and lower 1-2" off the opening instead of the full 12", just the amount away that the lower cabinet is on the other side (about 1.5")?

This post was edited by robotropolis on Thu, Mar 21, 13 at 11:27

Thanks for your comments, robotropolis. I agree that 12" is a large amount and understand cabs are facing different ways.

The lower left area near the framed doorway is 1.5" and covers brick (not including the 2 3/4" door frame). I need to ensure that the new frameless cabinet 4 drawer 15" base clears this frame upon opening the drawers, so removing the frame helps to ensure this.

I'm no so sure how much extra base wall width I will get on that sink/range base cabinet area by removing that 2 3/4" moulding: is the moulding covering brick and attached to it, or will it indeed open up the door passage expanse by 2 3/4"? I can't tell from old blue prints either.

I think your comment that 12" is too much to loose is right: better to move the L wall upper and lower over maybe 1 3/4" or 2" like the opposite base side and not focus on upper wall symmetry.

I've disliked the double oven tall cabinet for many years, that I"m eager for a lighter touch.

(edited for clarity)

This post was edited by SparklingWater on Thu, Mar 21, 13 at 17:10

I can't really understand your proposed layout without a measured drawing.

However, I think you are being more than a little optimistic to assume that the door casing is merely floating in air and can be sliced away easily. The casing conceals jack studs and king studs that are holding up the header over the door. You don't simply pull those out and toss aside without the wall coming down on your head. You also show a clean continuous ceiling between the kitchen and the other room. That is probably not going to happen either without a recessed beam.

If you are definitely going to reno that kitchen, it's time to rip open that wall and see what's in it (without yet disturbing any structural members).

a light filled chamber ??..well....glass will reflect what light is bouncing around and make some difference. ...there appears to be no window in the front part of kitchen.....how about adding a window....I don't think you can claim much will happen that you couldn't achieve with white beadboard around the passage or at least paint the cinnamon color a white shade in semigloss.Do remove the dbl ovens/maybe glass doors will be nice but they will come out almost as far as the ovens and have right angles/sides up at shoulder and head height....a box will be situated where you had a bigger box.....so your calculations of "getting" light from a particular style of cabinet is hard to grasp. Have you thought of leaving the passage-do white surfaces around it and some open shelves where you are thinking so hard about the glass doors? the different alignment of floor boards caught my eye more than the trim and passage because of what paint and oven removal will achieve without cost and hassle.

Just got back...

"The casing conceals jack studs and king studs that are holding up the header over the door. You don't simply pull those out and toss aside without the wall coming down on your head."

Thank you for pointing this out, marcolo. I will tell you what I've garnered from the old blueprints. The cased or framed door way was the back of the house. The pantry was an addition done 30 years later.

In the center of that doorway or near center, was the back door to the brick house. Two windows were on either side of this back door. I reviewed the blueprints before posting this morning, trying to glean new info from them, but no success. I guess the door way was removed, the header remains, but I do not understand why there is brick on the left as you gaze in, jutting out so far into the door way if that's where a window had been. It's definitely a brick wall on the left, and I can see brick behind the upper cabinets on the right (removed trim).

In sum, I appreciate better now that the door "frame" is not just for effect, but is architecturally designed for support of what once was there. Glad you told me and sheds light on one interviewed GC's advice.

"I can't really understand your proposed layout without a measured drawing"- will try to put this up here too.

Given your comment about the frame, I doubt the frameless drawers will clear the trim, so I will need to replace the drawers with a base door. We currently have a face framed door with three pull out drawers that clears the door frame trim (5/8" perpendicular to wall). But it does so due to three inches of filler next to that brick wall. Frameless reduces it to two inches.

This post was edited by SparklingWater on Thu, Mar 21, 13 at 17:31

herbflavor, thank you too for some feed back. There is a west facing window at the front of the house directly across from the kitchen door allowing light into the kitchen through a hallway, but otherwise, no window in the kitchen itself (library is behind north wall and foyer behind south kitchen wall). So two light sources, the front hall way area and the pantry room in this interior galley kitchen.

"a box will be situated where you had a bigger box.....so your calculations of "getting" light from a particular style of cabinet is hard to grasp"

At one point, I though of ending the cabinets flush with the new CD refrigerator wall, i.e., not putting cabinets to make an "L" corner where the double oven is currently. I thought our art work and a mobile prep station would be an alternative. But you'd give up a lot of cabinet space: lazy susan and upper square cabs, wall cabinets and lower drawers. This kitchen isn't that large, albeit very functional for cooking.

So I stuck with the L corner wall, but put in a 30" glass upper, with interior light, to hold the large serving china to our daily dishes currently in the DR. We have glass cabinets in our dining room as well as mirrored large armoires in our foyer and LR. Traditional older kitchens often had kitchen glass uppers, so instead of more doors I felt this glass cab would add interest and light. It sits just to the right of the east window in the pantry; in my eyes this visually helps link the two spaces. One semi custom manufacturer I"m considering has half-curved muntin glass upper butt doors that meet in the middle to make one curve, like a cloud in the sky seen through a window. Very nice.

Haha, yes, white or off white paint is planned for the walls. I switched to colors when raising the kids as I found Linen White hard to keep fingerprints off and I needed more color. Thanks for your suggestions.