i don't know that you have the room to do anything much different (w/o crossing the walkway).

i think the pantry is fine but if you want to go with one that matches new cabs that might make it look more streamlined. I'd keep the oven there, probably lower it and put mw over it with cab / counter next to it and
f ridge where it is.

on the other side you could put the sink in the outer corner. either way you could put the dw on the end of peninsula. you could have more drawers between the sink and cook top then and the dw wouldn't open into the cook space.

taking out the soffits and putting in higher cabs above will give you a lot more s torage space also. on both sides.

replacing the light will really help update the room.

I like the cabs opening into the eating area. I had those in a house yrs ago - loved it. you'd lose a bit of that space if putting the dw on peninsula but you'll more than make up for it with other expanded s torage.

new cabs, new appliances etc will make for a totally new updated kit. adding drawers instead of regular cabs will make the space more usable.

are you getting granite? new floors too?

example of oven with mw over it - if you are taller people you might put them up higher. another type of mw might not take up that much space either.

Thanks for responding! Yes, new everything including tile floors and probably granite or quartz countertops.

I like the micro stacked over the wall oven, definitely considering that. Do you mean an actual corner sink in the corner of the peninsula? I thought about that (giving me a nice stretch of prep area in front of the window) but don't know if the angle would take up too much space.

Would you/could you consider getting better use out of your dining room so that you could expand your workspace into the kitchen eating area? You could do no seating in the kitchen (my preference and better chance at a great kitchen) or just bar seating so you could get that dw moved out of the way? Opening it must block so many things the way it is.

Rhome - I would like to keep some type of seating in the kitchen even if it's bar seating. I would consider expanding the working area into the eating area. One of the concerns I have with that is the view when you enter the house. The short hallway opens directly to the kitchen and the backyard view is out that window. I don't think I'd like to see the sink under that window. What are your ideas to expand into the eating area?
We actually aren't using the dishwasher at this point b/c it's old and possibly leaking but I'm sure I would get annoyed with it if we were using it!
Thanks so much!

on the corner sink - you'd have to measure it out. have you seen buehl's corner sink and end 'wing'? her's is just a prep sink but it gives the idea. It would give so much more space for prep.

is that just a window by your table? no patio door to the back? that would make it easy to run cabs all down that wall if you decide to open the DR. not sure i'd want to do all of that for just a few more yrs there tho.

it depends on how much you want to redo and how much money you have / want to spend on it.

Yes, I have seen Buehl's corner sink. I will have to measure it out.
By the table is just a window. Cab/counters might interfere with window trim but I guess it could be done.

Well, my bigger idea would be to put the sink under that window, but can understand why you don't want that. Also, I am reminded by desertsteph's last post that you might not be there too long...So the more limited idea that leaves bar seating in the kitchen: I'd move the peninsula under that eating area window, making room for the dw to the left of the sink, and even a bit of room so the open dw door doesn't block the peninsula cabs. The overhang could be straight, or I tried an arced design that might look more elegant from the front entry, as well as improving the ability to converse while seated there.

This shouldn't be too expensive, I don't think, because you're not moving your sink or stove.

I have marked some things in red to think about that might improve resale appeal:

1) Might want to enlarge the doorway to the dining room...By cutting the pantry to 24" and the cab beside the stove to 18", you could have a 35" doorway.
2) Might want to narrow the pantry to 24" so that you can shift everything down on that wall in order to be able to fit a full 36" fridge.

One space I see that can be used is the 6-foot niche opposite the peninsula.

Fill it, floor to ceiling, with cabinets the depth of the niche.

Thanks Rhome, I like your ideas.
Lazygardens, actually that niche is an open railing to the family room where we spend most of our time. There is a step down on the other end.

Anyone else?

I'd move the cooktop to the right, far enough so there is room for a super Susan in the corner.

Anne

If you wanted, couldn't you remove the railing and frame it out with drywall to close up that space. I was thinking of maybe a built in banquette or bench seating over there with a table, so you might either be able to lose the peninsula and extend the cabinets to the left, or do as lazygardens suggested. If you went with a banquette, you could have extra storage in the bench part.

We actually just took out a half wall that was there to put in the railing and widen the step. My son plays in the family room a lot and I wanted to be able to see him. I'm now second guessing that decision, like usual.

We have a very similar floor plan, although we have a bit longer fridge wall and different window placement. We considered the banquette idea, and I think it makes more sense in your space. You could have the bench replace the railing, or I have seen them where the bench is nestled behind the peninsula and it looks really cozy (or both, even).

We are going with a range (instead of cooktop and wall oven) and OTR MW because we decided we just didn't want to give up counter space. We really tried to get away from the OTR MW, but in the end, it made the most sense.

We haven't started our remodel yet, be we are close to signing up the GC and cabinet maker, so this design is very close to our final version. We are moving our peninsula into the eating area 7 inches. I've posted a link to my photobucket with photos of our current kitchen, dimensions, and our remodel cabinet layout. Feel free to check it out.

How about one of these? (Building on RHome410's layout):

*****

Hi
I like Buehl's/Rhome's plan. Either one looks good.
In your original description you said you could go with a range so I would change the cooktop to a range and omit the wall oven.
Then have more counter next to the fridge, perhaps this could be your baking zone. Can also be used as serving spot for food going into the DR. Or can be used as a snack zone when kids are older. (Place Microwave below)
Or if more storage is needed, add a longer pantry 48"-56". Move the fridge next to the pantry and add counter at the other end of the fridge 21"-24". Could be used as a message center or ???
In your space a CD french door fridge might work well.
I think if your budget allows, remove soffits and have cabinets up to the ceiling.

Good luck!

Wow! Almost fell off my chair. We have (more or less) the same kitchen size and layout and challenges with openings and doors in the same place. I knew my house couldn't be the only one with this layout. I have had some designs done by a cabinet company that involve opening up to the dining room and would be happy to share them with you if you would like, but can't figure out how to take the e-mail attachment from the company and get it over here. Rge renderings look a little long and narrow like a bowling alley, but IRL, would feel more squared off. If you stand in your dining room and imagine the peninsula and overhang for seatingending even with the window over your sink, you will see that it really isn't as long as the view from the seating area looks. I don't k now the rules or etiquette for this, but if you want my e-mail address I can provide it and if you e-mail me I can forward the plans to you. The empty space pver the range on the wall would be for either a Stainless hood, or an OTR microwave or the cabinet company does a wooden decorative hood. I had the planner leave it empty because I like the look of a mantel over the range and they don't offer it. I would have it done custom. Regardless the prices weren't bad. Let me know.

Believe it or not, this setup actually isn't too bad...I also have the Foyer, Basement, DR, & FR all off the Kitchen as well. Reverse your layout and you have my layout...with the exception of the window. I have a 7' window approx where your right window is (when reversed), just a little more room b/w the DR wall and window. In your case, the windows are what makes it a little difficult, not the doorways.

We took down our DR wall and actually ended up closing up the FR doorway by 2' (from 6' to 4' doorway) b/c we wanted a corner pantry. [It should have only been 1', but there were KD measuring issues...]

Anyway, the peninsula is what keeps the Kitchen/DR/FR from looking like a bowling alley. We have neighbors with the same layout who took down the DR wall but didn't put in a peninsula...and their Kitchen/DR/FR does look like a bowling alley IRL.

Here's what our kitchen, DR, and FR look like. BTW, if we had gone with a pantry cabinet instead of a corner pantry, we would have had 7' opening (we would have gained 1' from the original opening.)

View from Family Room

View from Dining Room

I'm working on another layout for you similar to mine...

Thanks so much! I appreciate the responses and ideas. I like both plans for different reasons. Wish that peninsula could seat 4 bc we are most likely going to be a family of 4 in the next couple of years. SWspitfire I like your ideas too.

Debbie, I would love to see your plans. Can you leave your email?

Buehl, here's our dining room dimensions if that helps.
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My e-mail is Oursbelille@hotmail.com. Once I hear from you I will forward the plans to see if there is anything you can use.

I had a long reply and then it disappeared when I attempted to paste something in.... Really quickly now, but here's what I came up with. I will post later b/c I'm out the door right now.

I will be back in a little bit with details about what I did and why....

Thanks Buehl! Looking forward to hearing about the details of those 2 new plans. All these new ideas have definitely given me a lot to think about.

I have to say I like Buehl's #4. It seems a waste to not have SOME storage over in that corner by the FR. You'd still have the full width of the step plus the 33" open to the FR, enough to connect the spaces, yes?

I'd especially like this plan if you intended to use your dining room for casual meals sometimes, too. If you opened it up to the kitchen a bit more, as this plan shows, would you do that? That would make this plan work very well.

The only thing I am not wild about is the ref location, but I don't see where else it could go, and the rest of the plan makes so much sense...

I think Buehl's plan involves taking out the wall between kitchen and dining if I'm not mistaken. I'm not sure that I understand what is gained by moving the location of the entry to family room. Kitchen and family room are open to each other with a step down and an open railing separating them. I drew up a general layout of the first floor so you can see what I mean. (not to scale).

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Ah, I misunderstood Buehl's plan, then. Maybe she will clarify. I do understand how the house traffic flows from your earlier descriptions, i think... (although the step and railing area are drawn as solid walls in the plans, so it might be confusing to some people.) I thought she was simply moving and enlarging the doorway between the kitchen and DR. And adding a partial wall across your railing-ed opening, to gain storage space. if you're not tight on storage space, then that's not an issue. I always assume small kitchen = no storage so am looking for ways to add it in! (I also liked the way the cabinet there makes the counter eating area more cozy.)

I see how my drawing was confusing, sorry about that. The step is on the side of the basement door and the railing is on the peninsula side.

Didn't have much time last night when I got home, but I'm back briefly now...

What I did... Took down the wall b/w the DR & Kitchen but put in a peninsula for space separation. This makes the DR more accessible for family meals.
Because of the arrangement of the peninsulas (kitty-corner to each other), traffic from the FR, etc. will be directed away from the range. If it were on the same end of the kitchen (i.e., where it is now), traffic would be directed right into the middle of busiest and most dangerous Zones...Cooking & Prep...hot foods, etc. as well as knives :-). The #1 Zone/appliance that should be protected from traffic is the Cooking Zone & range/cooktop. Moving the entry accomplishes this. (If we could have put the range on the other wall, you would not have needed to move it b/c then the cross traffic would be directed away from the range.) An alternative would be to move the FR entry up instead and that would have had the same effect, but then you wouldn't be able to have seats at the peninsula.
Yes, the peninsula on the FR side only seats 3 people. We have a 4-person family and while our peninsula only seats 2, we find that plenty. Anytime there are 3 or more of us, we use the DR table for meals. Table seating for meals is much more conducive to conversation and family-bonding than peninsula or island seating. It's more comfortable and it's arranged better for conversation. So, I would not worry about 3 vs 4 seats at your peninsula.

[We used to have a kitchen table in our old kitchen, but it was a smaller place than you currently have and we outgrew it as the children grew. We much prefer a kitchen w/lots of counter & work space to what we had...very little counter & work space b/c the kitchen table took up space. Our DR was hardly ever used, so this new setup (using the DR table for all meals) has us using the entire house...no wasted spaces!] Changed the Cooktop + Wall Oven to a range. This frees up counterspace.
Moved the range to the wall opposite the Cleanup Zone allowing you to now have the ideal of the Cleanup Zone separated from the Prep & Cooking Zones (ideal for a family of two or more people)
Moved the refrigerator so it's closer to the DR and so it's near the Prep and Cooking Zones (there wasn't room on the new range wall for refrigerator + range + protecting peninsula)
In the DR peninsula, the cabinet against the wall is turned 90o so it faces the DR. This is a better use of space. The reason it's 30" is to provide functional "filler" on the other side of the peninsula to allow room for clearing door/drawer knobs & pulls as well as the range door.
MW...I put it on a shelf hanging from an upper cabinet, but you could also put in a MW Drawer in the seating peninsula. Change the 27" cabinet to a 24" cabinet to hold the MW Drawer (+ another drawer) and increase the 15" cabinet next to it to 18". That would be my preference, but MW Drawers do cost quite a bit more than countertop MWs so I put the less-costly option in. The MW Drawer also takes up approximate two drawers worth of space and I was looking for ways to increase your drawer storage. It's up to you...
Pantry...there's an 18" tall pantry for most-used items and a larger pantry w/floor-to-ceiling shelves behind the seats for less-often used items (like cereal) or snack items to keep snackers outside the kitchen as much as possible. (Drywalled pantries hold a lot more than pullouts and you can access things more readily with shallower shelves.)
I don't like all the smaller width cabinets, but I'm not sure what to do about it and still give you ample workspace on each side of the sinks, range, & DW.

so that whole blue line on the upper left 'wall' isn't wall? but railing?

that last drawing (where she was running out the door) looks real familiar. didn't we have another kit recently with the door on the right going into laundry/mudroom - changing from upper part of wall to lower part of wall? lower part was closer to g arage, uppper to the door to back yard...

great options tho.

Sometimes it's easier to see a picture. In this picture I am standing in the foyer doorway.
I would love to see pictures of a similar layout. You don't remember who it was?
Thanks again for all the help!

I should have mentioned that when I put the pantries in, I added a wall there...just enough for the pantries.

I'm trying to give Dfzmom everything...plenty of workspace, plenty of storage, good Zone setup and appropriate separation, good workflow, and minimal traffic impact on kitchen work.

Here's the one w/o the 18" Pantry cabinet...but with a long expanse of upper cabinets as well as wider base cabinets for most and more prep workspace b/w the range & prep sink.

Here are the major zones...

And...here is how this arrangement affects traffic flow...traffic goes on a diagonal so both sides of the kitchen are protected...Cleanup Zone on "top" and Prep & Cooking Zones on the "bottom".

Buehl, I like this last one a lot. Thanks! I think the next step is to look into taking that wall down. I might start a new thread on that. This project will mostly be DIY.

So she did mean to remove that DR wall..... but is that strictly necessary? What if you left the wall there, just moved the door over and widened it? It would be easier to do, structurally, and a wide door opening would still connect the two spaces enough, perhaps, to make family meals in the DR not as remote as they currently are.

Of course you'd need to reconfigure the cabinetry in that corner a bit, but looks do-able.

Just another option to consider!

I don't think that will work with the fridge. Right now there is only 36" between the dining room wall and where the window trim (Window above sink) starts.

If we don't open up the whole wall I think a version of Buehl' #1 or 2 makes the most sense. The biggest issue I see with those is dish storage. Any ideas on that? I guess in #1 I could decrease that 33" cab under the window, moving the sink more under the window and then add that 24" cab between the windows. I will lose some prep space between sink & stove but it's more than I have now...

#5 is my favorite as well! That's why I chose it for the Zone/Traffic illustrations! :-) You have room for pot/pan storage next to the range, dish storage above the DW, plenty of prep workspace as well as cooking landing zone/workspace, and, with the ample upper cabinet storage, room to store most-used food items, etc.

Dish Storage...If you notice in the last 3 layouts, I added a "dish hutch" style cabinet b/w the windows. it's a 24" cabinet that goes down to the counter. It's over the DW and partially in the corner area (but not too far since you want to be able to reach it), so it shouldn't take away from your Cleanup Zone's workspace or that wonderful expanse of workspace you have on the peninsula.

DR Wall...Yes, you need to take the DR wall down for the refrigerator to fit. I tried a smaller one (33" wide), but then you really need to get a full-depth refrigerator and that takes away another 6" or so of aisle space b/w the peninsula & refrigerator, making the peninsula too narrow. (It cannot be recessed into the wall b/c it's on an exterior wall.)

I suppose you could leave the wall up in front of the peninsula, but I was trying to give it a more open feel that I think will help encourage your family to use the DR more and be happy using it.

We were never that happy with our closed up DR even w/the 53" doorway b/w it and the LR (there was only a 33" doorway b/w the DR & kitchen)...it always seemed isolated and cramped. Now that the wall is down, the DR seems bigger, even though the peninsula overhang actually takes space away (*sigh* another measuring issue forced this!). Maybe if we had a big DR we might have felt differently, but our DR was only: 13'8" x 11'1". (With 12" of the the peninsula overhang now extending into the DR, the DR is now only 12'8" x 11'1".)

Another nice thing about the fully open area + peninsula is that the peninsula is a great place for staging food & dishes for setting the table, taking food to/from the DR, and clearing the table.

Even if you moved the doorway, you will be dealing with structural issues, so I'm not sure how much you'd save by not taking the entire wall down...unless it's load-bearing, but I don't think it is given the layout of the walls... I think the load bearing walls are the ones b/w the kitchen/DR and LR/Foyer and b/w the FR and Laundry Room. BUT, I'm not a structural engineer so do NOT take my word for it! (I'm just guessing based on what I've seen here & in my home!)

If, however, you did want to keep that wall, you could do something like this...

OR

Thanks again. Don't worry, I won't take a sledgehammer to the wall without consulting with a structural engineer first:)

Just wanted to share that I've decided on a very similar layout to yours. I will look forward to sharing progress.