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dogsunderfoot2

layout help please, early planning stage

dogsunderfoot2
12 years ago

Hi - After lurking for a little while and seeing the great minds at work here, I would love to get your advice on our kitchen layout. Here's us:

- Just my husband and me (and two dogs), not much entertaining

- Do a fair amount of cooking, and like to cook together

- Make dinner 4-5 times a week, plus do some bulk cook-and-freeze meals, and prep big quantities of food for freezing

- I like to bake, probably once or twice a week

For us, the kitchen is all about cooking; we actually eat in our dining room :) so we don't need office space, eating space, etc. in the kitchen. We do need a decent amount of pantry/storage space - I'd love to get all my kitchen stuff out of the mudroom and basement and into the kitchen!

Current house layout:

Our biggest problem in our current kitchen is flow. There's really only one counter, not enough cabinet space, and the kitchen's location means it's also a hallway between the back door/mudroom and the rest of the house. Plus, the kitchen, dining room, and living room are all open to each other, so any mess in the kitchen is right in your face all the time.

We decided to renovate the kitchen last summer when we replaced the floor of our house, spent a few months in a big open space, and saw some new possibilities. Our idea: swap the current dining room and kitchen locations. This pulls the kitchen out of the main traffic path, and gives us more walls for some upper cabinets. We're also thinking of moving the closet door and using the closet for a pantry. We'll replace the cabinets and counter, but we're keeping our stove and fridge. We're planning on getting an over-the-range microwave to save some counter space, and we're getting a dishwasher! Given all this...here's a possible layout:



(Pardon the wacky dimensions - the computer ate my current layout and all that's left is this screenshot, argh!) The outside walls of this room are concrete block, so the window and sliding door can't be moved. Theoretically we could replace the slider with a single door, but that door would have to fit within the slider's footprint, and there would have to be a big layout advantage for us to do that much work.

A couple photos of the existing space:



The room has a cathedral ceiling. We're planning on covering up the ledge over the window, which would make the ceiling on that wall 105" tall, rising to 145" at the peak. I'm thinking of adding another row of upper cabinets to take advantage of this height, but wonder if we'd ever get out a ladder and use them...



This is the slider on the north wall; the closet/pantry-to-be is on the right.

Thanks for any and all suggestions!

Comments (16)

  • aprilmack
    12 years ago

    I'm not a professional by any means but the lazy susan on the right hand side looks a little odd to me.

    Is there a possibility that you could put an angled cabinet there instead?

  • formerlyflorantha
    12 years ago

    if you put refrig on the wall to the right of the sliding door, it will serve the new dining room better and will still serve the deck Won't cross path from dining area into cooking areas. Also, it will allow on&offloading of refrig to the peninsula--milk, groceries, etc. Pantry cab can be there also. Then you have a wonderful run of cabs either side of sink.

    Consider a second small sink on end of peninsula. Then you'll have a real two-cook kitchen.

  • blfenton
    12 years ago

    I like the idea of moving the fridge over to the other side. That longer run of counter to the right of the sink would be a nice baking counter.

    I would like to see the DW be moved to the other side of the sink. Right now you have the oven door and DW door almost opening ontop of one another. If you like to cook together it allows one person to be cleaning and the other to be cooking. Also one person could be cooking to the right of the range and the other on the peninsula without the DW getting in the way. Right now you have the cleaning area and the cooking area right on top of one another.

    Is there room in the mudroom for a coat closet?

  • Buehl
    12 years ago

    How about one of these? The second, especially, offers two separate Prep Zones...one for each of you!

    The refrigerator is much more useful in this location...it's more accessible from the DR & LR and it's more convenient for prepping and cooking.

    The DW is to the right of the sink...out of the way of prepping, out of the way of the range, and convenient to dish storage. The dish storage is also convenient to the DR...no crossing the Prep or Cooking Zone to access it.

    Instead of a corner susan on the peninsula, there's a 27" cabinet turned 90 degrees that's accessed from the DR...the perfect place for a drawer bank that holds things like table cloths, place mats, napkins, etc...anything that's needed in the DR only.

    The tall cabinet behind the refrigerator could be a utility cabinet (broom, mop, etc.), a pantry cabinet, or an appliance garage of some sort...depending on what you need to store in it.

    They both also move the MW to an alcove at the correct height in the tall cabinet in the upper left corner, w/tray storage above and pantry or other storage below. OTR MW hoods are notoriously poor vents, are usually very loud, and are poorly located. If someone wants to use the MW while someone else is cooking, there is not only a bottleneck in front of the range (even w/just two people), but you have to reach over a hot range w/hot food...not a very safe situation. In addition, the height of a MW in an OTR MW is too high for the majority of people. By moving the MW, it's not only out of the cook's way, but it's also located near the refrigerator, easily accessed by everyone w/out interfering with other tasks, and is a much less expensive MW! If/when the MW dies, you simply replace it with an inexpensive MW.

    As to venting, a dedicated vent hood is much more effective at venting and can be much, much quieter.



    .


    Here's a third option. I don't particularly like it, but I thought I'd show you something different. Why don't I like it? The island is a barrier b/w the refrigerator & 2nd Prep Zone as well as b/w the range and refrigerator. The refrigerator is facing away from where it will be used the most...Prepping, Cooking, dinner time, snacks, etc. The aisle b/w the pantry & island is too narrow, I think, b/c it's the path from the backyard to the rest of the house (via the sliding glass doors).

    Maybe I shouldn't have even shown it, but I wanted you to see another option. There are probably more options, but it's late! Personally, I think your peninsula idea is the best for your particular situation.

  • herbflavor
    12 years ago

    after the kitchen/dining rm reversal I'd get rid of the walk in pantry cubicle. With your high pitch ceiling-get the focus back into the middle of the space for balance. eliminate the peninsula that juts into the space. Then go for an island-3 or 4 ft square between kitchen and dining room.Back where pantry was-load the wall to the rt of patio door with tall, 12 or 15 in deep storage cabs as you need. An island with great counter material, striking cabinet choice will really enhance that mid section,and give a few sides for cooks to land.

  • remodelfla
    12 years ago

    As soon as I saw your layout... before reading the thread, I thoguht swap the areas. I think you're on the right path. I really really like buehl's layout #2

  • dogsunderfoot2
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Wow, great ideas! We tried the fridge on the right side and thought there wasn't enough room - but we never thought of rotating it. (And it's not actually counter depth, that's just my extremely limited layout skills shining through, sorry.)

    Yep, DW to the right of the sink makes more sense. We were concerned about having the DW right next to the bottom freezer on the fridge, but moving the fridge solves that problem. :)

    It's hard to see in my layouts, but in our current kitchen, the cabinet next to the refrigerator is a pantry cabinet, so there's nowhere within reach of the fridge to set anything down unless you set it in the sink. I really like buehl's layout #2 too, as long as it leaves us room for a landing zone on that counter. And we tried putting an island in there, even got out some big boxes and tape to mark it out, but nothing we did seemed to flow.

    blfenton, plenty of room in the mudroom, that's where most of the coats really go now. No problem at all taking over that closet - it would force us to get rid of some junk :)

  • rosie
    12 years ago

    Some good ideas already from moving the kitchen to the dining space. The high ceilings and corner location, including the sliders you have to keep, should make it a very pleasant place however you lay it out.

    However, if you can, how about mocking up what would be your new dining space/traffic central area to make sure you have the space you'll want allocated there? At about 11', a 4' wide or diameter table would do, of course, but perhaps make that important area a little cramped. Maybe worth "living" with a bit before firming up the kitchen dimension? Of course, you could also go as trim as a 36" table, which would help and be fine for two. That's too narrow for serving dishes when guests are over, but the kitchen is right there after all.

  • brianadarnell
    12 years ago

    I really like Buehl's layout #2. If you went with that one, you could actually have the pantry open into the kitchen to the Left of the REF so that it doesn't open into the dining room...just a thought. Its looking great!

  • blfenton
    12 years ago

    I like layout #2 - the one with the prep sink. It's a very open, spacious feeling kitchen. You would have to decide whether giving up some counter/storage space is worth the prep sink. I am a big prep sink convert, if it makes sense and with 2 cooks it makes sense. You both have equal access to a sink, to a nice-sized working counter and to the fridge.

    I think 11' wide is wide enough for table and chairs. (Tables also come 42" widths which is a nice size) Chair space is typically 3' when no walkway is required behind them. YOu may have to center the table towards the right of the DR as there will be walking space required for getting from the kitchen to the living room. If you are putting in a hanging chandelier over the table in the DR, place the table first before doing the lighting placement.

    Good luck with the renos - it looks like a great space to be working with. And don;t forget to post in-progress pics and pics of samples and .... you get the idea.

  • Buehl
    12 years ago

    Landing space for the refrigerator can be either in front (my favorite) or the sides...as long as there's no more than 48" b/w the refrigerator & counter. So, in #2, the peninsula is close enough. The reason the peninsula is my favorite is that it puts the food right where you need it for prepping. That's one of the reasons I put a 9" cabinet to the left of the prep sink. That, and it gives you some space on both sides of the sink. With the overhang (1.5") and the fact that the sink will most likely be an inch or two from the sink base wall, you have approx 12" of landing space...9" + 2" + 1.5" = 12.5". If you need more, you could increase the size of the 9" cabinet...but you don't want to decrease the space b/w the sink and the corner too much...that will be your primary Prep Zone on that side of the kitchen. (The second primary Prep Zone will be b/w the cleanup sink and corner...one "primary" and well-situated Prep Zone for each of you!)

  • kaismom
    12 years ago

    I agree with herbflavor's point of view about the space: you have open dining, kitchen and living room with wonderful cathedral ceiling. This is what needs to be accentuated.

    Why is there a cut away above the walls of half bath? Is that for light? This has to go, IMHO. It does not look good and you hear someone doing his/her business in the bath. This will also streamlined the look of that wall.

    Regarding Buehls design; she has created solid walls from the cabinets on both sides of the kitchen as you enter from the slider. This feels too closing in for me. In your space, I think you need to open up one side or the other to start opening up into the house from the exterior.

    If you don't need the current closet, I would get rid of it and incorporate that into the kitchen?

    Other things: I agree with other folks.

  • Buehl
    12 years ago

    "...need a decent amount of pantry/storage space..."

    If the current pantry is eliminated, consider putting one somewhere else. What is the current "closet" being used for? Pantry? Something else? If pantry, is it big enough? I'm thinking you probably don't use it as a pantry, though, since you also said you have things scattered throughout the house that you want to store in the kitchen.

    Regarding the tall cabinets flanking the sliding doors, remember there's a 5'+ aisle there...that's a lot different than the 36" aisles you often see...it's pretty open. In addition, you have the 6' wide window on the left wall...and that will also give you a feeling of openness. However, if you can move or eliminate the pantry, that area can be opened up even more. But, what you don't want to do is create a large open space just for the sake of "openness" and then short yourself on storage and/or workspace. I'm not saying eliminating the flanking tall cabs will short you, I'm just saying be careful what you do in the name of "openness".

    The peninsula, btw, is not only creating the two Prep Zones you need, but also protecting the Cooking Zone. As you can see in Layout #3 above, an island probably won't work unless you eliminate the pantry.


    We had the same goal, btw, when we did our kitchen...get all the stuff out of the DR, Basement, and Library (yes, Library!) and into the kitchen where they belonged!

    So, how much storage space do you need? Personally, I would want a pantry somewhere close by...

  • blfenton
    12 years ago

    If the OP is concerned about the closing in effect of having a wall of cabinets on both sides of the slider - one option is to just get rid of the pantry on the left side and just run the counter to the end. The MW could still go in the same area but be in an upper cupboard instead.
    One advantage of running counter to the end and being at the slider end is that it could be used as a landing place if outside is used for entertaining. For eg barbecue things could be kept in a drawer and the counter used as a landing spot for barbecuing stuff - food, condiments, cutlery etc.
    To open it up even further you could do a 3-3 1/2' pantry as you come in from the slider and then put the fridge beside it to the right along the wall.. (the fridge is not CD) That would mean getting rid of the walk-in pantry.
    These are just options.
    I don't feel that there is a tunnel effect with the 5' wide aisles and it's only 4 1/2' of tall cabinetry which is 2 1/2 steps before you are into the main open area of the kitchen - and openness is also provided by the long window over the sink.

    Now the plan is down to want the OP needs/wants and how they feel about the space and what they want it to feel like.

  • dilly_ny
    12 years ago

    I really like your idea of swapping the DR and kitchen space, and some of the above layouts are great. This forum is great for getting ideas and seeing other perspectives.

  • dogsunderfoot2
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Thanks for all the comments. I want to mock up the prep sink and try it, I never thought we'd have enough room for two sinks!

    Since the living room/dining room are one big space, there's plenty of room for a DR table. We actually had a table there for a bit while we worked on the floor. The deck outside the slider has no stairs to the ground, so it's a dead end and we really only go out there to use the grill.

    And kaismom, there's a ceiling over the half bath, thank goodness! That would have been remodeled before anything else. :) No idea why they did the cathedral ceilings like they did, though. It's an old house that's evolved a lot over the past 150 years.

    It's really helpful to get feedback from folks with fresh perspectives. Thanks so much!