Definitely U1! Windows by the sink plus take vegetables out of the refrigerator and take only 2 steps to the sink to wash them... Consider a barn door instead of a pocket door. Same mechanism, less expensive to install and if you have an issue with humidity, it will not get stuck.

emily mb - Tell me more @ these barn doors - I've never heard of them. Thx for your input!

What a great solution!! Absolutely yes! Losing direct access from the kitchen to the less used porch seems minor compared to what you gain.

I agree on U1. Having the fridge near the DR is very handy. If you're clearing away a dinner party fast you can always use the kitchen table as an intermediate landing space (as opposed to the sink in U2). And it's nice having the sun coming in the windows by the sink when you're doing prep. Plus, in U2, too much of the work space is in the corners.

I'd swap the pantry and sink in the laundry room, however. My philosophy on utility sinks is they should be close to the washer so that it's easy to transfer soaking tablecloths, etc., and close to the kitchen door for the mop. I don't think it would be too far from the door if you swap it. And if it's used for handwashing/glass-of-watering as people come in, it's better to make them pass the lockers to put their stuff away rather than cutting the corner and just dumping stuff next to the sink and leaving it there.

This makes a very workable kitchen, where the traffic doesn't go through the work zones, and where you don't have to invest in a lot of heavy remodeling to get something nice. Down the road if you decide you want a "mop door" or are going in and out to the porch a lot more times per day, down the road you could always change the laundry room window to a door, but the one off the little hall doesn't look like such a big diversion.

I worry about dish storage in either plan.

Is that pantry storage across from the washer and dryer in the laundry? I hope so, because that tiny separate pantry is, well, tiny looking! :-)

Another vote for version 1. I have an aversion to looking at refrigerators (they seem like such a hulking mass to me) and with version 1, the fridge isn't the first thing in you sight line when you enter the kitchen through either door. What a good solution to your door dilemma!!

I agree with rhome about pantry storage though...I'd try to fit as much food storage into the laundry room as possible.

I really like the banquette in the corner. Charm is in the details.

Oh, and I just remembered something else. I think prettykitty has a barn door for one of her rooms. It rolls on a track outside the wall rather than being recessed inside of it (be prepared for kitchen envy if you haven't looked at her pictures before this). Her pictures are in the finished kitchens blog.

I think this is where she got her barn door hardware (we will be doing something similar and thought her was great!):
http://www.betterbarns.com

Agree...definitely U1. Fridge is more accessible both to kitchen and rest of house and seems more tucked in (vs. U2 where it sticks out a bit). Also, window over sink plus more cabinets (uppers) puts U1 over top.

Thank you all for chiming in again!

Plllog - I will think @ switching the sink and pantry in the laundry. What you say makes a lot of sense. The reason I have it in that placement is b/c that is where the plumbing currently is in that room.

Rhome - I understand your concern. I would be able to devote at least 1/2 of the cabs in the laundry (yes, that is what is across from the washer and dryer) to kitchen storage if needed. I am also going through the plan and writing down individual items to be stored in each cabinet to make sure it will work.

Arlosmom - I agree completely about refrigerators! The kitchens I like best never have a refrig showing. Thanks for the tip @ prettykitty's kitchen. I'll check it out.

Farmhousebound - Thanks for the link :D

Conn123 - U1 seems to be winning by a landslide. Thanks!

It does make sense to relocate the door. That's why you kick these things around on paper so long -- to think of the alternatives. I would move the laundry sink, and if the sink plumbing becomes an issue, move the W&D over to the sink end and make your additional storage towards the back. That might be utility (mop/broom) storage or occasional use items and the more frequently used things on the wall opposite. I'd rather the lockers be pushed down for appearance and kitchen function, but you want them to be used, so that may be the best placement for that. The bev fridge sounds like an undercounter model, but you don't have a counter drawn. If you go small, remember to think about how to finish and use the space above. If not, you may like having a smaller yet full-sized fridge there. That would give you overflow when entertaining or stocking up -- fridge and freezer.

Do make sure you know where your dishes and glasses will be going and that they are handy for putting away when clean and for serving. You might need to carry your uppers to the corners (make sure you can reach the things in the corners) or consider a single window over the sink with uppers either side of it -- glasses on the fridge side and plates and such on the range side. If you really need the space and don't mind stacking and carrying across the kitchen, you could build a banquette table with dish drawers in the base -- and those coffin drawers under the seats! That could take care of linens and seasonal items too, but keep the glasses near the fridge and sink.

Lascatx - Thanks for all your ideas re the laundry area. I like the idea of a smaller full-sized fridge.

I am planning to use the two cabinets closest to the window wall to store glasses and plates. It should be fairly convenient to the DW. I definitely want "coffin drawers" in the banquette, but hopefully I won't have to use them for dishes!

I vote for U1 too. I love it. It will be beautiful. I have a bunch of banquette pictures that I saved (on my other PC) if you want some inspiration. (At one point, I was thinking of turning part of my kitchen into banquette.)

I remember talking to coworker about how I was trying to figure out my layout. It was like a puzzle that I kept trying to fit the pieces together - I knew if I kept trying differnt ways, eventually it would come together, and it did. Your "lightbulb" moment remindes me of that.

One thought - you may want to switch the swing of the entry door. We had the exact same swing with the kitchen entry to the left where your mud/laundry is, and it was so aggravating because 99% of the time when we entered, we would go left. I would think that 99% of the time you would be coming and going left into the mudroom? Which reminds me, will there be room for a table or some area in which you can put down bags of groceries, the mail, hang keys, etc.?

Lynne

Lovlilynne - I would love to see your banquette pictures if it's not too much of a problem! You make a good point about the entry door. I'll have to think about that. I don't currently have any area planned for throwing down mail, etc. but will try to work one in as I think it's a good idea.

Actually, most of my pictures were copies I saved from a Better Homes and Gardens article, and I think they would be small if I tried to embed them here, so I'll just attach the link.

One note about your "coffin" storage - you can get cabinets under. I did a search, but also my HD designer had designed one using over the fridge cabinets.

Here is a link that might be useful: Banquettes

One way to keep mail from accumulating in a kitchen is to have a vertical folder pocket near the door where you can dump the mail as you walk in. The mail is out of your hands while you're taking off your coat, putting away the frozen food, checking messages, etc., but it's impossible to let it stack up there--generally an office supply store kind of pocket will only hold one day's mail. (I'm not advocating plastic, just the size and shape. Decorative ones are made of wood, zinc and other nice materials, or you can have one made to match the cabinetry.) So if you pick up all the mail when you're ready to look at it and carry it to the desk or wherever mail is supposed to go, you don't leave behind the circulars, and other pile-uppers.

Here is a picture of a sliding barn door over a pantry. It think it looks great!

Here is a link that might be useful: jrdip's cottage kitchen and barn door

Lovlilynne - Thanks for the idea of using refrig cabs for the banquette. I also appreciate the link - so many options!

Plllog - Good idea re mail pile up - and it wouldn't take up too much space either.

Positano - Thanks for the picture. That door is really creative! I'm glad you posted a link to the rest of the kitchen b/c I was dying to see it :-)

I like U1 too, though I would extend the uppers to the corners. You could bring the uppers in the corners down to the counter to make them more accessible. I think a pass through to the pantry would be useful. Maybe slide the W/D toward the sink and pantry toward the window with a pass through close to the corner. That way you could eliminate multiple trips to the pantry if you have lots to get out at once.

Mom2lilenj - Thx for the ideas.

Arlosmom - I just looked at Prettykitty's kitchen - oh my! You were right about experiencing kitchen envy!

I really like both new plans so much better than anything on the previous thread. Just one question - do you BBQ or eat outside alot? If so you may want to make a passthru in one of those windows so you don't have to walk all the way around with plates/trays of food.

Also, why keep the windows so small? Are you trying to recycle the existing windows? Can you make them bigger to get more light, or does the porch get in the way?

Excellent! I also am really in favor of the hidden fridge, although I do like the layout of the stove on the outside wall; however, they'll both work well and give you a chance to create a really nice look on that wall. If the stove faces the front of the house, even though it's not directly in line of the door, you might want to do a custom wood hood rather than cabinets all the way across. A matter of buying the fan and asking your carpenter to knock up a frame to go over it for you; you get to draw the hood you want, and it's a small investment with a big payoff. In either case I really like that your main work areas have no wall cabinets looming over them. This design detail will also definitely help further an updated-but-old look.

I'm really looking forward to seeing this come along. It's going to be good!

Luluemom - We do eat outside so I like the idea of a passthru to the porch area but I'm not sure how it would be done. Do you have any suggestions?

We are working on enlarging the windows while still trying to keep them centered/balanced in the room.

Rosie- We xposted! Thanks for your input and encouragement. I like your idea of a custom wood hood (and I appreciate your explanation of how to get it done). I'll run it by DH.

My Mom had one when I was a kid. She just had a double hung window that came down to almost counter height. When she wanted to pass things to Dad at the BBQ she would leave them on the counter in front of the window with the window open and he would remove the screen and reach in and grab them.

Of course there are a few flaws with this plan:
1) the window has to be the right height on the outside
2) if the screens are on the inside the person outside can't remove them
3) casements and awning window won't work since they can't usually be opened from the outside
4) a few bugs may make their way into the kitchen while the window is open
5) the window has to be large enough to easily accomodate what you want to pass out, so large trays may not work

Considering you are already planning to replace those windows (I think) you can easily choose windows with these desires in mind. BTW, a family across the street had the same house but on a sloping lot so their kitchen window was a little higher from the ground. They installed a shelf right outside the window and the Mom placed things on the shelf instead of leaving them on the counter inside.

Dissenter here! I think U2 is better...

I worry about the DW in U1...

In the current rendition it's in the way of the primary prep area b/w the range & sink. You will not be able to have someone prepping & cleaning up at the same time.

If you switch it, it's in the way of the refrigerator & MW. The DW door sticks out 27" to 30"....the MW is right next to the DW & counter and the refrigerator 24" away. Unless that's an 18" cabinet next to the refrigerator, then the refrigerator is OK, but the MW is still an issue.

In U2, the DW is completely out of the way. As a matter of fact, the prepping & cooking zones are as separate from the cleanup area as you can get w/a 1-sink kitchen. If you could afford the counter & cabinet space, you might consider a prep sink next to the MW...then it would be close to "ideal"!

Lululemon - Thanks for the info @ the passthru. That's kind of what I thought you meant but wasn't sure if there was something I was missing!

Buehl -It's usually just me in the kitchen, but I do like to have help w/ clean up. I'm going to think about your comments re the dishwasher being in the way. It is a valid point. Unfortunately I think a prep sink is out of the question b/c I just don't have enough counter or cabinet space to sacrifice. Thanks for being the voice of
dissent :-D

If the refrigerator is not already a built-in refrigerator, then if you "build in" the refrigerator it isn't as much of a "hulking mass" as you think. Surround it by 3/4" finished end panels and put in a full depth cabinet above the refrigerator mounted b/w the end panels.

The end panels should be the same depth as the refrigerator carcass/box is from the back wall (usually the carcass/box + an inch or so). For example, my refrigerator has 26" deep end panels on each side b/c the front of the box of the refrigerator is that far from the wall. The door(s) will extend past the end panels (this is needed to allow the door(s) to open fully).

In your layout it looks like you already know about the build-in trick!

You don't need the prep sink, it's more of a "nice to have" with your layout. You won't need to carry boiling water across an aisle or across the kitchen...the sink and range are next to each other on a continuous counter run...

Another advantage of U2 is that you have a nice expanse of work space for baking or other big cooking projects on the left "top" counter (the counter b/w the refrigerator & range).

If you do a pass through to the pantry, put a door there so you can close it off when not needed.

As to a pass through to the porch, you might consider extending the counter to the outside from the windows...maybe have a counter run b/w the window on either side of the range outside. Not only will it give you "pass through" functionality, but it would also provide a place for food, etc. when you have a party. There was a thread not too long ago about outside pass throughs...

The thing that hit me about U2 is that you may not be able to put the range so close to those windows. When I was working with one of my design options, my KD had told me that I would have to move my window in order to have the range where I wanted it. Your local code my vary.

Another thought - you may want to make the banquette table on wheels - use a mobile island that you could use for extra prep space in the kitchen when you are entertaining, etc. You'll find that your guests will like to sit on the banquette while you are in the kitchen.

Buehl - Thanks for the "built in" refrigerator trick. The only reason I know about it is b/c I've read other threads where you've given the same advice! Your posts are helping me look at my two designs in a new light. Thx for your input.

Lovlilynne - I will check on code re the range and window placement. I like your idea of making a mobile island.

I'm going to advocate for the other plan. :) For me, it's more about paths. One can still reach the stove with the DW open on U1, but on U2 one has to go around it to get into the kitchen. In U1, food to be prepped can go on the counter or right into the sink. In U2, it has to be carried across the room. In U1, one side of the kitchen is pretty much your prep zone and the other side is pretty much your cook zone (depending on how you use your MW--I consider mine more of a prep item). Then the middle is the cleanup zone in the middle of the prep area to one side and the cook area to the other.

Workflow usually goes fridge --> sink --> stove, then stove --> table --> sink --> fridge. U1 just flows so much better for me.

Of course, I very rarely have the DW door open. If you leave yours open and add things as you go, placement is more of a big deal. If you stack and then load all at once, and unload all at once, it's not that big a concern compared to workflow.

I'm new to this discussion. Would one more set of eyes be welcome? Your inspiration of moving the doors is a real game changer. Brilliant. U1 is, from my point of view, the best. Given the limited natural light and view, you do want the window to be the focus of that wall. May I address the mud/laundry room? We had one when the boys were growing up. It would be helpful if there was a seat to put on/take off boots etc. Otherwise they'll go to the banquette, tracking whatever with them. Perhaps a window seat under the window by the door. It could then have boot cubbies underneath. You say the room is 7' wide. That makes it pretty narrow to have a full 24" counter on both sides. Consider the outside wall being solid 12" or 18" cabinets. Do think about putting a front loader and dryer under a counter, even if you don't put doors in front of them. It gives you a place to sort and fold. Or put a laundry basket. The sink could then be part of that counter. Putting a door where the window is from the laundry to the porch seems like a natural. Folks (boys) on the porch/patio can get to the beverages/sink/ without going through the house. I know you have an office, but the kitchen does tend to become communication central. Have you thought about a place for the phone and attendant notes? Perhaps the end of the cabinet run facing the back door in U1 or the end of banquette near that door? The banquette may well become the go to place for homework and school projects. Lighting? storage under the banquette? Finally have you thought about putting a skylight in the porch roof outside the kitchen window? At the end of of the day, you are going to have a wonderful house.

Plllog - I too am still leaning toward U1. I think I'm looking at it more from your perspective. But I am glad that Buehl pointed out the potential problem b/c to be honest I hadn't even though about the DW getting in the way.

Tzmaryg - A new set of eyes is always welcome! I appreciate all of your ideas for the mud/laundry room. We plan to have a bench along the bottom part of the lockers. All of the counter top is along one wall. (the wall WITHOUT the sink) The sink is a very old one that attaches to the wall. I know we won't be replacing the laundry window with a door right now (we're already spending more than we allotted!) but we are keeping it in mind for the future. I plan to incorporate a file drawer in the laundry room cabinets that will help me organize papers to/from school etc. I'm hoping to have a small command center in there. Haven't thought about lighting yet but definitely going to have storage in the banquette. Probably will either be big roll out "morgue drawers" or made out of refrigerator cabs w/ doors. I don't think a skylight in the porch roof would work with our old house but it is a creative idea!