I know you know this, but you cannot transfer expectations from a professional business setting to contractors. If this were a job interview at the bank, obviously the second contractor would receive an "Unfortunately" letter. But sometimes good contractors make bad sales people, and vice versa.

Try to continue your due diligence without prejudice. Check the Better Business Bureau, lawsuits, references, etc. with an open mind. At the end of the day, the first guy's better demeanor may still win out. But for now, try to give both of them an equal chance.

I guess you looked at finished jobs from both contractors before you made appointments with them.

Yes, SixtyOhNo, we have. Firm 1 has done a pool and fence very similar to what we are thinking of, one could almost duplicate them. Firm 2's portfolio doesn't happen to have anything as spot on, but it's all in the style we like and he is very creative and we like what he has done.

Worse yet, our pool guy has mentioned Firm 3 to me today, who has a great website, but there is no way I can meet with them until mid January and by then there may well be too much snow to walk the grounds if last year is indicative, and I really want to get the ball rolling. So I am thinking ignore Firm 3 ...

I would go with Firm 1. It is very unusual to actually have an example of exactly what you would like. No misunderstandings, no surprises.

If it is important to you to be edgy, I would ask Firm 2 if you could see some of his work from his satisfied clients. (Not just references.)

I just don't quite get why this firm doesn't have a professional manner.

Well, don't forget price.

For me, it would always be the most creative. Anyone can do the ordinary but it takes an artistic eye to create an original.

Absolutely no help from my quarter, I'm afraid. I have struck out with almost every contractor I've hired, and I've chosen the messy/disorganized/creatives as well as the military precision/call answering organized ones. None of them is ever on time and on budget. I say you flip a coin, or go with whoever is cuter. (Seriously.)

Based on what you have said, firm 1 hands down. He did his homework, was prepared, etc. which is an indication of how he will proceed with the job. Firm 2 guy sounds like a total flake...like he could care less if he gets your business or not. This total nonchalance could translate to nonchalance once the project is under way....not showing up, not returning calls, etc.

But I wouldn't discount firm 3 just yet. Can you send them pics and ideas and can they walk the property without you being there and get back to you with their ideas via phone, email? Not ideal I know, but maybe at least getting a third estimate and different ideas will clarify things more.

..firm one sounds good, is he Eddie Haskell?

Get references from people who have actually have had work done by both.we have a wonderful guy who comes in and does things correctly without site plans etc.

ML

Just to make it clear, I can see projects from all of them on their websites, and they are all very good (that's why I am considering them and not others), and all have offered up references.

Are you interviewing landscape architects or contractors? If the former, I would be really leery of firm #2 b/c all of the good landscape architects I have ever dealt with are like firm #1. Contractors, on the other hand, are a mixed bag and sometimes aren't as organized, but still….. I have always been happiest with firms/professionals who are clear about quotes, deliverables, billing, etc. Especially for a big job like you are undertaking. Plus, I would think you want to make sure you are working with someone who is really good about permitting and regulations (like organized firm #1?). I am not sure what the regulations are like in ME but on Cape Cod we are on the water and we have to get Conservation Commission approval when dig up a weed in the yard (or so it seems) so we are extremely careful about who we use to do our landscape design. I would definitely keep #3 in the mix - and have them take a look at the property now even if you can't meet them there.

Hi marina gal,

These are landscape architects, one is a landscape designer.. As far as permitting there's an engineering firm and surveying that's handling that aspect. Then there's also a pool contractor.

It sounds like number two man was not very communicative. I think you would be happier with number one because he sounds more forthright.

Guy #1 seems like a clipboard guy. Dotting the i's, crossing t's. Maybe not super imaginative...but knows his bottom line. Guy #2 maybe is a dreamer, been there - done it all but that maybe your job isn't one calling for his most creative outpouring. Maybe you know exactly what and where already and there is not that much for him to get fired up about. Or have to draw up anything since its so straight forward.
However seems to me it doesn't matter because #2 isn't getting the job. Is he? He didn't make the right first impression. Is he doing a prelim plan for you?
Get #3 to do a plan for you and find a #4 too.

All things being equal (quality of work, etc). When things don't go as planned, which one will work with me to get it done right and make me happy?

I reward go-getters, not the 'if you want to just give me the job'. The firm that wants nothing from you, IMHO, either isn't interested in the job or is too busy right now to deal.

Check with the state for any complaints or lawsuits. The references a contractor gives are always people who were happy with the job.

Can you actually speak with any of the references or are they all written or "here is a project I did and you can drive by it and see it". I would not trust pictures on their sites. Cameras can lie and poor workmanship may not show up.

If you can actually speak to the references, try to get references from 1 or 2 years ago as well. That will give you an indication as to how the landscaping evolved over time and if any maintenance problems came up.

At face value I would choose the first contractor but I haven't spoken to them and gotten a "can I work with this person" impression and that is important as well.

I'm going to take the minority position and say Firm 2. Here's why: Do you want an artist or a business man?

Lots of creative people aren't as "organized" in the same way as Firm 1 guy. We just did a huge landscape project and, as I am sure you know, with landscaping projects, so much will come up as you go along and the project may need to be adjusted on-the-fly to work best with the land, etc. I'd want a go-with-the-flow guy rather than a Plans, Plans, Plans guy.

As long as he's got good references, of course...

I got burnt with some custom cabinetry by selecting a guy based on the designer feedback and photos of his work. Photos wouldnt show the crappy stuff he did, but every time I sat down in that room, the crappy stuff always managed to jump out at me. I couldn't sit in that room for more than 6 months after it was completed, I was so disgusted. They both lost out on my kitchen project.

I agree with beagles.

You said that #2 is creative. i would never assume that a creative person must be as structured and organized as everyone else right from the start.

I was on my phone last night and it was hard to reply in detail, but thanks everyone! I almost did not post because I almost thought it was an obvious choice; I am glad I did post.

One interesting point is what I will call "framing". By the way the anecdote is told, Firm 1 becomes reduced to the business like firm and Firm 2 becomes the creative firm.

But, they are both very creative --- that is why i chose them, because i liked their work (portfolios of residential projects on their websites). And, I am given to understand that they are both good business people, based on people who have worked with them (though I have more due diligence to do).

However, their behavior in one meeting caused one characteristic to shine through, making it appear as though I have a false choice between extremes, which may not be fair.

For example, as I have said, when it comes to just the pool and fence, Firm 1 did a pool that I bookmarked a year ago. It is a bit unusual and creative (but not whacky) and it was the pool that convinced me that, for our site (undulating lawn to a rocky coast, old stone wall, wild sea roses, grasses) a classic staid rectangle was not the way to go. So, yes, Firm 1 is creative.

And Firm 2, while they didn't seem to think they should spent a lot of time prepping for a meeting with us (I don't disagree, I think Firm 1 was an outlier on that), is certainly professional ... maybe even moreso than Firm 1 as they seem to do a lot of corporate and municipal work as well as resi.

JMC01 - They are both creative. I think the difference is a style of doing business. Firm 1 was willing to invest more time up front to get the job. That may be telling.

Mags - We have driven by some projects they have done, but landscape architecture is a tricky one. How it looks years on has more to do with maintenance. And frankly it all looks pretty nice given the nature of the setting. You can't really see "errors", they are more like missed opportunities.

Beagles, As I said above, a funny thing has happened. Before i met either, i saw them as fairly equal in creativity. Then one guy just had a different way of doing business which sets him apart. It makes the playing field unlevel.

BLFenton, They are all people we can contact.

Lucy, exactly!

Mags, I tended to think the way you did about the firm that just sort of showed up to chat and didn't do any legwork. But, in fairness, thinking back to the last time we hired a landscape architect for another home, no one did what Firm 1 did.

MissyMoo, One of my problems is I hate saying no. So I am loathe to talk to a third contractor in any detail and def. won't bring in a 4th. Firm 1, spending so much time on us, will make me feel bad for turning them down. There is a lot of scope for creativity in our job because it's a large lot with grade changes and we want three separate areas ... and that is just the back of the house. And frankly they always want an oceanfront job to add to their portfolios.

emmarene, That's a good point. Communication styles...

Maddie, LOL. All landscape architects need topographical surveys to start with, showing major trees and elevations. So neither of them will be seat of the pants...

JoaniePoanie, That is my inclination, but that was why I wanted to check here to see if I am being unfair to Firm 2.
Good point on Firm 3. They do some commercial work nearby that i love love love.

KSWL, You are too funny! Firm 2 is cute. Really cute. I regretted-having-sweats-on-cute.
That's actually a bad thing, because then I have to have my make up on every time he is coming over, etc.

Contractors, what can I say? The only human beings I know personally for which I have truly hostile feelings are the GCs for my CT house. But I must add that I really like my Maine guys. Were they on time? Nah. On budget? ha ha. But I really like them and never felt ripped off or ignored.

Yayagal, If I had to try to quantify creative, Firm 2 might be slightly more than Firm 1, but as I said, it was Firm 1's pool and fence I bookmarked a year ago and still want to emulate. Just because he ended up impressing me with customer service should not erase my first impression of him as creative...

Marcolo, Cost is even more nebulous than usual with landscape architecture. For a project of this size, the design fee will probably be, IIRC, about 8-10% of the total cost rather than by the hour. So who knows who will cost more in the end? If I were to pay by the hour I could compare hourly rates but I prob. don't want to do it by the hour.

Ellendi, Good point, in re the pool, although we could always copy it , but that isn't very nice. Or do something inspired by it, which sounds nicer but is the same thing IMHO. I don't think of us as edgy but I do always want something a little bit different.

I find a lot of landscaping too perfect. I would like the landscaping to feel like our house does. Lovely, but imperfect, a bit off here and there, a bit worn here and there, handed down, and anything but NEW. I do not want a sprinklered lawn mown in alternating stripes.

Will the work be done by people on the contractor's staff or by subcontractors?
What kind of warranty does each contractor offer on plantings?
How well does each contractor know what plants do best in your microclimate?
Do you have a deer problem? (My landscape designer promised me that all the plantings he chose were deer resistant. Hah! I have a deer salad bar. I also had to replace several plantings with others because the original choices did not survive in my microclimate.)

Pick the one that you would feel most comfortable being upfront and maybe a bit angry with. I made the mistake of hiring someone recently that I thought I liked personally only to discover that he takes on the persona of one of his three daughters when he thinks I’m unhappy. He even uses a girl voice. This guy has his act down to an art. He sickens me. He sickens me even more when he gives me the doe eye.

This is not an area where I have experience.. but I have hired/worked with vendors and contractors in a business setting (including creatives). I don't buy that the second guy gets a pass for not wanting any information upfront because he's "creative". Any artist-- whatever the media-- who is doing commissioned work needs to know the scope, limitations and expectations. What gives me greater pause is that he was taken aback when you asked about next steps.

I fully expect that you will want to be involved in the process-- you will want a contractor who you can trust to include you in the process-- seek your feedback, who will provide a plan, who will keep you apprised of progress when you are not there and who will brainstorm creative solutions with you when they hit issues/setbacks. You aren't an absentee homeowner who will provide a budget and then disappear for 6 months only to return for the grand unveiling.

I have concerns that contractor #2 will work well with your style and include you where and how you want to be included-- is there enough info to know this (about either contractor)? Maybe. If not, lay them out clearly for the contractors and see how they respond. Your instincts will guide you well. You already know what you want and how you want it.. you just need to determine who can best give it to you.

Ask yourself this.. 3 months into the project, you find the most amazing, crazy cool antique thingamajig that you want to incorporate into the design. Or you happen heirloom fruit trees that you absolutely must have! Or . Which would embrace your vision, share your enthusiasm and find a way to work them into your design/plan?

I so look forward to watching the outdoor living spaces develop!

I'd just like add that by actually speaking with the references (old and new, all completed) you can separate out the sales impressions to the longer term reality.

I separated out the design portion on our front yard renovation -- since I was not obligated to use their firm for construction, I focused on design, knowledge and creativity.

If firm 1 has the look that you want and was more pulled together then it seems like that is the best company to go with. I guess things are much different in your area, probably due to the magnitude of the projects there, but when we were looking to plan our back yard we had several companies draw up preliminary plans, for a fee, before choosing a company. The firm that I thought that I had wanted to use, based on the architects creativity, came up with a plan so far a way from my vision that there was no way I could use them. It was very creative and unique but not anything like what I had wanted (angular deck and patios and even flower beds vs. organic and flowing, which I had been clear from the beginning was important). So, if you will be under contract with a firm before seeing any preliminary sketches I would absolutely want to pick the one with the work closest to your vision.

AtHome, I know none of them would draw up preliminary plans for free, but Firm 1 charges $2000 for plans, and then a 8% of the job. Firm 2 only mentioned an hourly rate plus a 8% of the job. I suppose I could invest a little money in getting two preliminary plans ... Id not thought of that.

Gooster, That is a good point about references. As far as separating the job, since we are offsite, I really need someone to over see it.

Funky, I think they would both be open to incorporating something offbeat, the sense I get.

Jterri, Too funny about your contractor and his girl voice! You are right though, it is a pain to work with someone you can't get mad at. That's the conundrum with always wanting to hire friends / become friends.

Suero, I love that, "deer salad bar"! The both have done oceanfront in my town before, so they know the drill and, yes, we have deer. I don't think I've ever met landscape architects with many employees; they all seem to use subs it seems ...