Guidelines for aisle widths & walkways

12 years ago

http://ths.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/kitchbath/2011105828006802.html

I found this very helpful sticky post but I'm looking for something a bit more specific related to the required widths between an island overhang with stools and a wall of appliances.

I posted my layout last week. The KD is proposing an island with seating on the L. The short side of the island with secondary seating is in front of the 33" frigidaire freezer column (with the current design, the island would end before it hit the fridge, which we expected to open and close more often if the secondary seating was being used).

The guidelines say:
Walkways....In a seating area, 36" of clearance from counter/table edge to wall/obstruction if no traffic passes behind seated diners. 65" of total clearance when this includes a walkway (i.e., traffic). [From the NKBA Kitchen Planning Guidelines With Access Standards]

What about width of aisles without seating? How much space between the wall with the dishwasher/sink and the island is required? The oven wall and island? And, if I do 65" of clearance from my fridge to the island, my fridge will be 65" from a landing space and not the suggested 48".

The more I think about it, like pp said on my layout post, we should abandon the seating in front of the fridge. We could position the island correctly and make it bigger. But, at the same time, I love the idea of having seating on the L. It makes for such a cozy space.

We are also doing an L shaped banquette fyi. Maybe that's enough conversation space?

Thank you for your advice!

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Comments (7)

User
12 years ago
Abandon the seating if it interferes with the proper access of the refrigerator. It's not fun for people to constantly be getting up to move to let you get in the fridge, or you to keep asking them to move.

Or move the fridge location.
Niki Friedman
Original Author
12 years ago
Thanks. The decision is weighing on me. It wouldn't be primary seating- it would be secondary if we were having a big party.

I'm designing this kitchen for entertaining and "hanging," which is why we are putting in a big banquette as well as island seating. We will have 3 stools with backs on the long side of the island for primary seating. The secondary seating (2 stools) wouldn't have backs and would just be used for parties. We could get 65" of space between the island and freezer (island wouldn't be in front of the fridge).

Just not sure what to do. I guess if it's too tight with the 65" we could remove the stools entirely and not offer seating. However, then we'd have a big space between the fridge and landing area. Decisions, decisions!!!
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Jillius
12 years ago
Post your proposed layout here. Let us take a look.
Niki Friedman
Original Author
12 years ago
Thanks Jillius... Here it is...

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg091215125479.html?16

We've made the following changes to the plan:
-removed the 2 6" lowers next to the range top
-easy reach in corner
-considering moving "coffee cave" to end of fridge wall
-considering prep sink on island

Trying to figure out the appropriate dimensions of the island. DH wants to have the option for stools on the L- even if we only have people there for parties. We can even keep the stools in another room for day to day living.
Jillius
12 years ago
Do both the doorways flanking the fridge/coffee/freezer section lead to the same hallway? Couldn't you just as easily put the fridge where one doorway is, the freezer where the other doorway is, and a new doorway to the hallway between them to separate them?

Also, what was the reasoning behind having a banquette? Are you wanting a banquette specifically, or did you just want seating somewhere, however would work? Banquettes don't strike me as the best solution for fitting a lot of people in the kitchen. By virtue of being so built in and fixed, banquettes aren't at all flexible, and the many people have to displace the many other people just to get in and out of the banquette seating.
chispa
12 years ago
I've found that during a big party (40+ people) all the counters on the peninsula and island are used for serving food and no one sat at my 6 stools on the peninsula. I had 7 people sitting at my 60" round kitchen table (I have large chairs). A banquette wouldn't be very practical, as mentioned above, because you have to bother other people if you need to get up for seconds, a refill or saying hello to another guest.
Niki Friedman
Original Author
12 years ago
Jillius-
I had replied to you earlier but it must not have posted! In the new plan, there will no longer be a hallway. The hallway will be part of a walk in pantry, accessed only through the mud room.

The banquette is designed for kids, but it will have 3 adult chairs on the other side. The table will be smaller than the banquette for easy entry. Figured it was the best way to cram as many little ones in as possible ;)

Chispa- I agree and think that when we entertain with that many people (which we do, though mostly over the summer because we have a pool) we won't use the stools. I'm thinking more of the 20 people get together where a few are on the deck, a few in the family room, the kids in the basement/at the banquette and the rest hanging by the island.

Thanks so much to everyone who is taking the time to respond- really appreciate it!