And? The number is neither surprising or shocking to most construction Pros. Truly, the architect is completely out of touch.

The teardown is a no brainer. Except, expect the costs of either to be 30% greater than what you were quoted by the end of the project and are counting up the dollars spent. Don't expect the costs to drop significantly in the next few years either. You'll be waiting a long time for that to occur. A long time. The backlog of projects is enough to last for the next 5 years, with the prices keeping rising to meet that demand.

Practical, I also multiplied by $300, but that's only $330,000 for 1,100 SF. So the bid is almost double that.

Sophie, with all due respect, backlogs do disappear when economy tanks. Please read back to my previous post about my pre-2009 experience. I normally refrain from commenting about the tone of the posts on the forum (coz things come across differently over internet and can be easily misunderstood), I do think that your post does come across as arrogant.

You are getting more than one quote right? We did a 8 foot first and second floor addition and the quote I got from my architect's preferred contractor was also sky high. I asked her for another recommendation and that was much more reasonable. Then I got a third quote from a contractor who did a friend's addition. The second two estimates were much more in line with each other than the first. Getting estimates is time consuming and tedious but it can also be very enlightening. I learned something new from all the contractors and subs who came through.

Hey, all you doctors and lawyers who didn't get laid off during the 2008 catastrophe? Guess what, it's payback time.

Somehow contractors are just supposed to go dormant when the economy crashes then spring back to life at their old rates when things pick up. No. No thank you. We've got a hole to dig out of and you're gonna help. Thanks.

And simply writing the final check isn't good enough either. I want your gratitude too. If I don't think I'll get it, I'm not gonna pick ya.

Joe - your comment made me think of this quote from Mike Rowe when he testified to a Senate Committee in 2011:

"A few years from now, an hour with a good plumber – if you can find one – is going to cost more than an hour with a good psychiatrist. At which point we’ll all be in need of both."

Joseph, you are so far off on the lawyers it's not even funny. People refer to the law students who graduated at the beginning of the recession as the lost generation because many of them never found any work as attorneys. None at all--not temp work, not the low paying public sector jobs, nada. And they didn't get hired when business picked back up because by then there were new fresh graduates to hire and people weren't wondering what was wrong with those new graduates that they hadn't worked as attorneys. And many, many law firms folded--including big firms that had been around for a long time. And many, many lawyers with substantial experience lost their jobs. Starting salaries were frozen for those who did get jobs for several years. Bonuses went down, so total compensation went down for those who managed to stay employed, The legal profession was hit hard.

As well as people in many other professions, crl_. My kids graduated from college in 2007 and 2008. Believe me, we know quite graduates who couldn't find work in their fields and ended up becoming baristas or other non-college level jobs. And now can't get work because, as you said, they didn't work in their field immediately and, therefore, the new grads get picked over them. My son and his wife found work overseas as their solution. Good for them as they're seeing the world but it hasn't been easy.

And most people don't have the option of "payback time" once they finally find work again. Most people have to start at the bottom. I don't even know how to respond to a thought process that considers screwing people just because you can as being OK.

Beanpiele - yes we are getting more quotes. Oh by the way -- I forgot to add earlier that, this quote that I am ranting about, is basically made without the said contractor having come to our site even once, therefore does not know the amount of work involved in remodeling our existing space.

Per our architect, he sat in the office together and explained the work. I should add that I do not doubt that my architect did as good a job as he could; but finally the quote could very well have been generated by some random calculation. Or, like one of the posts noted, "I am busy, but if you pay me 2x the price, I will work for you".

So yes, it's been enlightening. Next week I am having a guy come to my house and look at the house and give me a quote, by actually seeing what needs to be changed to make the house into what I wish to make it into. I will keep everyone posted.

Another alternative that is being suggested is owner-builder type arrangement. Has anyone tried that and how did it go?

Did I misunderstand? An 1100 sq ft addition over the existing 1100=2200

Practical, that's correct, roughly.

So the addition is 1100 SF. Why would you multiply by 2200 - did the OP say they were going to remodel the whole house?

crl:

Point taken, but the bottom line is that you don't want your daughter to marry a carpenter.

I kind of wish my daughter would become a carpenter. But she wants to be a rock star, so there you go.

You can't just put an addition on top of an existing house you are really redoing both...

Homeybird, I think by now you totally get it. You are so fortunate to live in a very desirable place! Venting is a very good thing. Always welcome here. I love GW for that very reason. I'm glad you posted this.

All the responses im sure have been very helpful to you to get clarity and a different perspective. Once it is all put back together, I'm sure you will be so happy with whichever choice you end up with.

When and if you ever sell (which I would never do in a prime location that will only get more and more valuable) you will not regret it. Get some more estimates for sure. Then going by good reliable and verifiable references pick the GC you feel will do the best job for the most reasonable price.

I'd love to see pictures of your place. I grew up in Santa Rosa, frequently visiting family in the SF Bay Area. Sf was a fun weekend trip for many years. Now I'm in Hawaii, and many of my local friends annually visit SF just because they love the city. Best wishes!

Oh yeah and Joe, you crack me up! My dh has been a GC "carpenter" for over 30 years. My mom told me "Don't let this one go". We've been married 23 yrs now. From what I gather you and your wife have been happily married for a long time as well. I know you like to joke. So I get it! My husband did have to lower his rates a couple times during that weird slump, but he never went without work. I would jokingly tell him, "Just bat those blue eyes honey." He'd always get the job. It is our running joke even now that he is in his fifty's. Haha! Of course he gets jobs based on good workmanship, but the blue eyes (and overall hotness) always helped! Oh sorry for the TMI there! I guess I'm just very happy I married my carpenter.

New construction in that location averages $300-$500 a square foot. A guideline to remember is that Remodeling is DOUBLE new construction pricing. Sometimes triple. $1000 a square foot would not be out of the "norm" for someone who needed to extensively retrofit an older home and add an addition at the same time. Seismic requirements, additional fire code requirements, and the structural requirements of needing to reinforce both the foundation and framing of any first floor that needs to now carry a second floor dictate that the project will be far more expensive than new construction.

I think your quotes are actually low for what is being proposed. And I think your architect is in a time warp decades old if he sincerely thought that what was being proposed could be done for 200K. It calls his entire core competency into question. As in, are you sure he is an architect? And does he specialize in home remodeling jobs rather than mini malls or boat marinas? Did he just move there from Iowa or some other LCOL place where 200K would hardly cover what is being done? Seriously, we've spent more than that popping up our little ranch and are not even adding a second story.

Would you mind posting your before and after floor plans? We're considering almost the exact same thing and live in an expensive area (DC). I would love to see what you are considering doing. I am really struggling with getting a handle on how much this will cost. The architect said he can't tell us until the plans are drawn up, and the plans alone will be ~$15k, and I don't want to pay for plans if we can't afford the addition. It's a chicken/egg situation. FWIW, this doesn't sound unreasonable to me. :-(

This is what I'm talkin' about. I expect to see this written on the invoices wrapping the checks I get in the mail. (5) replacement tile @ $100.00 each.

Rebunky, I live in SR. I will never sell, because I couldn't afford to buy even my own house.

Live wire oak speaks the truth...in my neighborhood there is now very little remodeling, the new owners just come in and scrape the lot and rebuild from the ground up.

My area is scrape and build as well. That is what we planned to do when we were going to build, but our build attempt was a failure. We ended up in a good enough 5 yr old scrape and build. The folks who built up with old basements and foundations remaining have trouble selling. Doubtful the investment is even close to the return. They cannot compete with the new builds or the older homes that haven't had rehab attempts. We went into a few pop-ups when we were on the hunt and the old house smell remained. I have asthma and had to walk out of a few soon after entering. Many had foundation issues and plumbing concerns.

LWO, thanks. Just a clarification - no, the architect has done extensive work with the city. I do not doubt his experience and credentials. We did check references. I think his only mistake was to not check with his contractor friends beforehand. I suppose the last time someone checked was 3 years back and now he is hearing different prices.

K L - you are in DC and I am in SF Bay Area. My numbers and codes will not be same as yours but I will offer this wisdom - we too were told that the rough estimates will be obtained for final prints. Considering that our final plans are basically just a plan and elevation and no construction documents, it is not much more than a draw up of our desired layout, just a more formalized one and to scale. I would suggest that if you know what changes will be made for your existing house, then get one set of drawings done and if it roughly has all the elements you like ( e.g. My elements were a kitchen with island, open great room, 3 baths, 4 bedrooms, master suite with walk in closet), then insist upon getting a rough estimate, make this clear up front. In our design we spent a lot of time fine tuning entry, location of staircase and kitchen-great room design. Most design iterations were around that but in terms of price, I doubt if they were that much different to build. If I knew this was the number early on, then I would not have gone through the entire design phase.

That is the other reason why this estimate is something that is offered at end of phase 2. At that point if we decide to bail, then at least the architect has got the money. Also, the chances are that you have started dreaming about the house and it is hard to now get back to zero.

DH and I had decided that we will risk 20K of design fees and in the worst case, completely drop the process if we do not feel ready for it. I think we are leaning towards that unless we hear a price that is substantially lower than current quotes. We foresee different circumstance for us in near future that will require money, and most importantly, even though our house currently is small and inconvenient, our family is small too ( 2 adults, 1 kid) and so the current house is not exactly killing us. Secondly, as our 10 year old daughter nears high school, chances are that we will NOT want to do a project of this scale because college will be looming. Net net, if we do not continue now, it may not happen for next 15 years, and we are fine with that.

On the whole, looking back I am glad that we have not only plan B but planC, D as well :) I am also trying to get quote from modular builders and SIP's. I will see how that goes. Will post my experiences.

homey_bird, I am so sorry to hear the bad news. I am even sorrier to say (since it doesn't sound like you have your structural engineering yet) that I agree with live_wire_oak that the current estimates also are probably low.

As you know, building costs vary for a lot reasons. Some towns have strict requirements and "difficult" building departments. For example, our area has plumbing materials restrictions that create more expense; other nearby towns might not have these restrictions. Location can make a big difference in travel time these days -- for example if I am a contractor/sub from Tracy then I might well charge less for an East Bay job than one on the peninsula. I would guess the "rich" factor is shorthand for "there's a lot of competition for overbooked contractors, and folks in your area are willing to pay $$$."

I would be extremely reluctant to self-GC a project of the size you are considering unless you have a lot of experience and contacts in the business, or if you don't care how long it takes.

Have you looked at Bluhomes?

Good luck, I really hope it works out for you.

Hi Oaktown, thanks. Looks like you either live close by to me or are familiar with Bay Area. Your comment on labor from Tracy charging more to come to peninsula is right; and frankly, I understand why. If I get a job offer 2 miles from home and another one 20 miles away, I will stamp an additional 30% "cost" of commute to the latter, and expect to get higher salary.

that said, the real bummer behind this is that the high price that I am paying is not making the lives of the labor any better, it is stuffing the pockets of the contractor. He/she is the one charging 3x and pocketing all of it. Poverty in our area is growing.

Anyway. Regarding bluhomes, yes. We have looked at them but their designs in general may not fit in our narrow and deep lots. Plus, when I did talk with one person who made sense, she warned me that bluhomes is still among the market tops in terms of price.

Besides, a lot of bluhomes finishes are not per my liking. At least the pictures I've seen in Sunset magazine etc. I think their floorplans are really awesome though.

I will post my updates and new knowledge.

homey_bird, hope something works out with the next quote or the modular/prefab folks. I love looking at the stuff that gets featured in Dwell magazine and the like, Michelle Kaufmann, Marmol Radziner, Method Homes, etc. but naturally they don't include prices in the articles ;-) We are in the bay area, I remember when the Sunset Glidehouse came out in 2004 thinking it was really nifty.

This is a bit OT but as Joe mentioned above there are good contractors out there who need to set aside something to help weather the downturns. One of the folks who worked on our house took pride in the fact that during the recession he did not lay off employees even though that meant he took a sizeable financial hit. He took the same pride in craftsmanship and teaching his craft; he and his crew did a great job.

The builders I talked with all were pretty transparent about pricing breakdowns and their percentage. They also were willing to give guesstimate ranges before we even started working with an architect. Maybe things have changed in this regard since everyone has gotten so busy. It's probably also harder to estimate a remodel/addition than straight-up new construction. Fingers crossed for you.

Oaktown, I agree that there are a whole bunch of good, conscientious contractors. I know one firm has become completely employee owned and each employee gets a share of profits. I did not get an estimate from them since they are considered to be high end and I am afraid to hear the price, but if I do ever have that kind of budget, then sure I'd be happy to give my business to them!

Yes I do get it that everyone has a reason for doing what they do!

I live in the same area and I've increased my budget to 4X. I was (like many, I expect) pretty much completely naive when I started.

My project is a "cosmetic remodel": small house + small cottage, kitchens and bathrooms gutted, all the windows and doors replaced, lots of other fairly small stuff, but no footprint changes. There can't be any footprint changes because the permit has to be issued as existing, non-conforming. My zoning is R-1 and the cottage is grandfathered in. I'm not willing to tear down the cottage so I can't do anything that requires me conform to current zoning.

A few fun recent activities:

- Talking to the city about the engineering drawings. Because all the windows are being replaced and either moved or resized, engineering plans were required (~$4.5K). Because this is CA, the house has to be bolted to the foundation and all the walls need to be reinforced for shear ... which means taking off all the siding, adding plywood, and replacing the siding. But there's a rule (that I don't entirely understand) that says opening more than 25% of the walls requires conforming to zoning ... a non-starter. That came up during plan check and was a bit of a scare. But the folks at planning have been really nice about it and say that they'll allow it. (We were starting to look into various other solutions for shear.)

- Talking to city utilities about the gas meter. It has to be moved: it's under a window and that doesn't meet current code. But there was talk about having it removed for the duration of the project. The house won't be occupied during the house remodel but the cottage will be (which is why they're on different permits: more $). Anyway, can't have the gas disconnected from the cottage for a significant amount of time ...

- Arguing with the city over lot lines. Their records have always been wrong: I have an easement for a creek that runs under my property and when the city drew the lot lines for their parcel maps, the easement confused them and they got it wrong. That's really not the biggest deal, but it affects ...

- talking to the city about trees. My city has "street trees", those planted in the city right-of-way. Because they have the lot lines wrong, they think a couple of my trees are street trees. Which matters because I have to have ...

- a tree protection plan. I don't actually have any street trees but I have an oak large enough that it's protected. If I do significant construction within the drip line of street or protected trees, I need a consultant to write a plan (~1K$). We don't think the amount of building in the area is enough to trigger that but we do have to put fencing around the oak and have that fencing inspected before construction begins. A city arborist came out to look and was really nice about things.

- Talking to the city about CALGreen requirements. Basically, another $2K consultant and some extra processes, inspections, and record keeping.

I had a contractor give me a rough estimate and he basically multiplied the sf by $300-350 without finishes (windows / cabs / appliances / everything else.) For a cosmetic remodel.

The contractor I am using I have (so far, fingers crossed) a good relationship with. He's smaller and very hands on, rather than running multiple crews. He's worked with people I trust. Remains to be seen, but so far, he seems very trustworthy (and punctual.)

With all these unknowns, trust is a big thing for me.

I've already said thank you, at christmas, for the planning we did last year: http://www.applecookies.com/builder-contractor-construction/the-grand-cookie-chocolate-toolbox/

Oh, and Treb, in this area, it may not be doctors and lawyers ... particularly not lawyers: there seems to be a bit of a glut in the area. But there are lots of Googlers and Facebookers to take their place.

I think folks in the trades that do good work can earn a good living around here: I suspect they have an easier time than civil employees (teachers, fire, police ...)

But I know it can be difficult, too. Dealing with all the naive people like me. Several have told me lawsuit stories.

i'm in the sf bay area too. I noticed the bids are really all over the place, depending on who you talk to. if you can, get at least 3 quotes. And get quotes from East bay contractors and South Bay contractors, a lot of them don't mind the commute, but their quotes are substantially lower.

Aptosca, your mention of the various rules and requirements has made me believe that we are in the same city. For your info, our architect informed us that 25% rule is currently suspended so get your plans passed soon. As for us our remodel quote came to higher than full rebuild so we will be subject to rezoning but good part is 25% rule becomes moot at that point!

Hi homey_bird! I'm glad you felt comfortable posting here. That's why I love the GW forums too.

I never in a million years thought I'd live anywhere outside a major metropolitan area. I'm a city girl all the way. But life happens, doesn't it? I'm now 20 minutes outside Spokane, which I do not consider a major metropolitan area to begin with, and I'm pretty much stuck here unless I win the lottery or write the next Harry Potter. But I must say, after reading this thread, I feel grateful to be somewhere that's a bit insulated from the vississitudes of the market.

The crash hit almost everybody hard. I have two brothers. One is a land surveyor and the other is a very well-known scientist with two PhDs. The land surveyor had built up his business to seven employees and his wife had just quit her high paying job in IT to be the full time business manager for him when the crash happened. He'd been booked out for months, and suddenly the phone stopped ringing.

The lifeblood of a scientist in national labs is grants, a big percentage of which come from various government agencies. Scientist brother routinely brought in million dollar grants, and suddenly no one, including the government, was handing out grant money to anyone.

Land surveyor brother ended up coming out of it OK. He lost his business, and it killed him to have to let down his employees. But, SIL got her old job back because she has unique skills that were still in high demand. Brother was able to sell his very expensive robot and other surveying equipment to a firm overseas at almost no loss. And the county where he lives needed a new county surveyor and he got the job.

Dr. Scientist went from a national lab to a university to another university to yet another university, taking jobs that were temporary, as in "we're funded for this research for one (or two) year." Finally, about two years ago, he got a job at another national lab. It's at lower salary than his old job, and he's running experiments he really has little interest in, and he's required to spend 50% of his time writing grant proposals. He's come out much worse than L.S. Brother.

I'm in the college professor/research business. I'm what they call an adjunct. That means I get hired for one class at a time for a lump sum for the class that works out to about $12 an hour. When the crash hit, higher education was the first thing that got gutted in state budgets. Universities dealt with this by hiring adjuncts, who are part time, no benefits, no opportunity for advancement because they're short term hires, not tenure-tract. They saved a ton of money, while continuing to raise tuition like crazy. So guess what? Once things started looking up and a lot of funding was restored, you'd think they would give us adjuncts real, full time jobs. But not so much. In fact it's gotten worse. 75% of all university faculty openings are now adjunct positions. A lot of adjuncts drive miles and miles to three or four colleges in order to teach enough adjunct classes to make ends meet.

I'm super lucky, in that I have a long term private (as in not government) grant that I'm using part of to refurbish an old manufactured home I just bought. I have zero debt and I'm very frugal, so that puts me in a better position than a lot of people.

All of which goes to show, regardless of education level or experience or professional vs. tradecraft, a LOT of people were hurt badly when the bubble burst and many are still hurting despite the recovery. So I don't think anybody owes anybody now that things are booming again, except the bankers, who owe everybody. ;-)

But it goes without saying, almost, that I'm always grateful and say thank you when someone does a job for me. I couldn't DIY if I tried, because of my disability. Every person has a unique skill set and is deserving of thanks when they do their job well. I'm extremely grateful when someone does for me what I could never do for myself in a million years. I truly, deeply, madly love my mechanic! I don't understand the first thing about cars. If intelligence were measured by how well you could rebuild a transmission I'd be the dumbest person in the room every time. But my Ryan works magic on my old mini van! I never forget to tell him how much I appreciate who he is and what he does.

Sorry for the long post. homey-bird, I understand your disappointment. I sincerely hope you find a solution that you are happy with!

Have a great day!! :-)

The planning department mentioned that there were modifications to the 25% rule up for review. They didn't go quite so far as to say it was suspended. But they did say (in later email; haven't gone back to plan check yet) that it would be okay. Hopefully we get to permits within the next week or two.

That's for the house. The cottage will be on a different permit and won't be for several months. So I guess we see what their rule/decision is then. The cottage should be a bit less of a problem. It's smaller and the window modifications don't touch every wall.

a LOT of people were hurt badly when the bubble burst and many are still hurting despite the recovery. So I don't think anybody owes anybody now that things are booming again, except the bankers, who owe everybody. ;-)

Nailed it

.........and the politicians who were supposed to monitor those bankers !

My experience has been that architects never know the real world cost of construction - ever. Their job is to make things pretty and stable. Affordability is somebody else's job.

I get tickled about the number of people that think the construction industry is or should be immune to standard economic realities like supply and demand.

How much would that expensive 1/2 acre in SanFran go for in Manhattan ? Why, 1/2 acre is a half acre right ?

Do the land or home owners ask less now than 2009-10 when they couldn't sell , because some people are whining now ?

aptosca, does your city utility offer energy rebates? Our green consultant (Title 24/BuildItGreen) was able to submit our paperwork for a sizeable PG&E rebate that ended up covering the majority of the consultant's fees.

My city has its own utilities. There are a couple of rebates but we're talking 2-300$. The might cover part of the Title 24 consultant but won't begin to touch the CALGreen consultant.

Yep, I used to live there ;-)

Too bad there aren't better incentives. Do you already have folks lined up? If not maybe you can get the same person to do both (ours did).

(Sorry for the OT homey_bird. Hope you have had luck with the various things you were considering.)

Aptosca, exactly how does the city determine a tree dripline? Is it a fixed circumference around the trunk or is it the canopy spread as is normally defined? We have a big tree in our front yard (private tree) and I'd like to move our front wall of the house a bit ahead, like by 3-4', but the canopy pretty much extends the entire existing house. It's not a protected tree but it's old enough that it has preceded the house (60+ years old). I would like to move the front exterior wall closer to the tree but if it means a headache of protection plan and arborist etc; then not worth it!!

Oaktown: Title 24 is done. I'm not sure if the CALGreen guy could have included it in his work. I know the Title 24 guy couldn't have done the CALGreen work; he doesn't have the necessary licenses. Oh, well. The Title 24 wasn't that much, in the big scheme of things.

homey_bird: the "tree protection zone" is defined to be the greater of 10x the diameter of the tree and the canopy/dripline.

Did we decide we're both in PA? If you're not, then I have no data and you can ignore the rest of this.

What kind of tree is it? If it's an oak or a redwood and it's that old/the canopy covers your existing house, it sure sounds like it's protected (to be precise, it depends on the diameter of the tree.)

If it is a protected tree, at minimum, it has to be, well, protected. Generally that means fenced. They'd like the fencing out to the TPZ but seem flexible when that's impractical.

If "grading or activity" is going on within the TPZ of a protected tree, you have to get a Tree Preservation Report which has to be done by an independent licensed arborist. One of the city arborists came out and talked to me about my trees (including my non-street street trees) and concluded that the amount of "activity" within the TPZ of my oak (which is about 8' from the house) is minimal and doesn't warrant the report. But my project is also classified as cosmetic remodel and the permit is being done over-the-counter. If you're doing a complete rebuild, I could see that being significant "activity and grading", particularly if you're pouring a new foundation, etc.

Yes we both are in PA. That 25% rule itself was eloquent enough proof :-) We had been bitten by it initially before we took preliminary building estimates. We wasted a few cycles discussing how to work within it creatively to accomplish our goals. Then, once the estimates came in, DH and I realized that we were better off preparing mentally for a full teardown and the rule did not matter to us.

Ours is a Modesto Ash tree, not among the protected list, but it's an old tree so who knows? It's also definitely not qualified as a City owned tree, it's ours, but based on what you mentioned, we will perhaps have to hear about it. I have a feeling that we will spend more $$'s preserving it than the other way around. Anyway.

If it's an ash and not a street tree (the city right-of-way can go quite a bit behind the sidewalk) then you're pretty much clear to do whatever you want, including cut it down. You don't have to protect it during construction (unless you want to, because you're worried about harming it.)

I have an older elm that I'm thinking of taking out because it's crowding out the oak. I've also asked the city to put in a street tree near where the elm is now, but really in the city right of way. That will give that part of the lot more warmth/balance (in 20 years ...)

As the arborist said, if it's not a street tree and not protected, they don't care what you do with them.

Oaktown (and aptosca), no worries about OT post regarding CAGreen and Title 24. In fact I will be looking for such professionals sooner or later once I get the issue of finalizing plans sorted out. I was also told that there are those who do only one of those and there are those who will do both, who will work out a little less expensive. I will be looking at recommendations shortly.

wow, I always knew that the Bay area was expensive, but I had no idea how much even compared to other places. We live about 20 miles outside of NYC, in a fairly upscale town surrounded by very upscale towns, but our prices are nowhere near yours. We're doing a 1500 sq foot addition (some new foundation, some on top) to a 1500 sq foot house, plus more or less gutting what's there already, and it's less than half the price of what you quoted.

As far as doing owner-builder. Does that mean being your own GC? We looked into that, but found that the quotes from the subs were wildly all over the place. And if its already busy in your area, you'll have a hard time even getting estimates back from them. In the end a GC was barely more than GCing it ourselves would have been, so an easy choice.

Freeoscar, yes owner builder is being your own GC. Yes it's not for faint of heart.

Any updates on this, homey bird?

Rockybird, thanks for checking. Still trying to get some estimates from contractors.

However, I've spoken to a modular homebuilder and it looks like the costs will be ~225 per sqft, plus installation and foundation, plus local utilities connection costs (I know for the fact that my city charges thousands for reconnecting utilities). We have realized that we should just keep talking to pros. For example, one guy walked in and told us that we will be able to build a house for ~550K but we do not know yet what material quality.

Some pros are charging 20% upcharge for all materials, even if we buy them, and similar upcharge for subs that we will find. To us, this sounds wasteful. There are some other contractors who are willing to charge no upcharge for materials, but only for labor.

Then there's the route of being owner-builder. We've talked about it, but possibility that we will go this route is low.

One thing is for sure: we are better off rebuilding and not remodeling, and our estimates are now exclusively for total teardown and not addition.

Contact me privately (via email feature of Gardenweb) if you need further details.

Thanks for the reply! So, you are thinking of tearing down and building new on the same lot? Will you use your architect's plans for any of it? It sounds like this option is much more viable price wise. It also sounds like the area can support whichever route you choose. Anyway, I hope you continue to post updates.

Rocky, for the time being we will use our architect's plans. Our plans are not currently final but I think that our house will be quite close to our current plans. So it will be a custom home and the modular builder's price reflects that. Our plans have a lot of features that I would want (considering the $$'s that we are spending) -- such as a formal entry area, and it's hard for us to find stock plans that offer all this anyway. That said, I would highly recommend going through stock plans first to check if they have what you are looking for, and if needed, make minimal modifications to them. That would save design costs for you. Just my 2c.

And shop, shop shop! We had one of the contractors who told us that painting alone may cost 40K and considering that it "shows", we should get a good quality painter, even though it's expensive. I agree in principle, but I found someone who has excellent workmanship and he has quoted 25K for exact same job. Prices do vary a lot.

Lastly, regarding your comment about the area supporting the route: yes our area supports either route price-wise, and we will get our money back. Our main problem is not recouping the costs, but it's more like raising so much cash without touching other important investments such as retirement etc.

Wow. $225/sf sounds crazy cheap for this area, even if you don't include finishes ...

Aptos, with the other costs stacked on, such as on-site work and foundation, it will be more like $300/sf. Yet, I think it will be great price because - 1. No surprises, and 2. while the house is being built in the factory, you are still living in your own home, and move out for shorter duration. Rents are running at $4000 per month minimum, therefore, reducing time of build from 18 mo down to 4 mo might result in big savings.

A modular home is coming up around the corner from where I live, so I will get a chance to see how "fast" the whole thing comes up.