The catch tray idea would also help humidify your home! :)

Gardino Nursery sells a soil-less mix for hoyas/orchids containing coconut husks, charcoal, and perlite chunks. Could it be coconut husks in your last photo of mix rather than bark? CHCs (coconut husk chips) absorb water like little sponges, but provide great aeration at the same time.

TMT, I've never tried the gritty mix for the very reason you describe. I want a mix that rains well, but it retains moisture while letting the roots breath. I don't want to be watering my plants more often than necessary, and I hate it when it just runs straight through. I use coir and perlite... simple, cheap, and very forgiving if you wait a bit longer to than you should to water. I don't use the chips, I use the fiber. Here's a link to my source... Coir

One brick reconstitutes to a couple gallons of media. It's handy because you can buy 5 or 10 at a time and store them easily, they don't take up a lot of room. But one piece of advice - don't store them where it's hot. Store them in a closet or drawer because if they're kept in the heat, for some reason, they don't absorb the water as well... I use at a rate of about 2/3 coir and 1/3 MG perlite. It won't compact down, so it will wet easily even if you let it get a little too dry. Now, with my big plants, I usually water roughly every week in summer, every 2 or so in winter. Ideally, I like to water, wait 20-30 min. and re-water. I think watering this way is beneficial because the first watering dampens the soil and gives the plant a little drink. Then the 2nd watering gives the plants a deep drink, which gives you more time between waterings. It's a bit of a hassle, but I think far less than watering as often as I would have to with the gritty mix...

Denise in Omaha

I also use the Botanicare brand...loose coir fiber.Same stuff but not compressed in a brick.I use one part coir,one part grow stones,I also add in some bio-char for the microbes.Grow stones are a bit high on the pH side,but can be regulated if you use organic nutes and beneficial microbes to the medium every now and then.Humic acid also really good for maintaining good soil flora.it's absorb by all the pores in the stones and makes a good home for the microbes and small feeder roots of the plants.

I use 1/4 inch orchiata bark (Gardino's uses Orchiata bark, as well...it is supposed to take a lot longer to break down...talking 5 years or so...so far, it lives up to the claim) 1/4 inch perlite, 1/4 inch coir chunks, all equal ratios. I use the gritty mix on some of mine, as well (got some that really don't want to be watered often).

I water once a week for most of mine. Some, like javanica, multiflora, and a couple others, get their reservoirs refilled (semi-hydro) on a three day basis or so, usually depending on weather, heat and humidity. Others get watered every two weeks or longer. Each gets a 5 minute flush once a month.

The most important feature of a mix is that all ingredients are roughly the same size, so drainage is not impeded. I found that is also important to rise all ingredients well, and then soak them overnight, especially if the mix is not retaining water.

There are two types of mix, a 5:1:1 (5 parts pine bark fines to one part perlite, and one part sphagnum peat), and the gritty (1 part pine bark fines, one part grani-grit, 1 part turface MVP) mix (which I actually like).

Either one, you can substitute ingredients and, as long as no soil, sand, or other fine materials are used, and as long as it remains a 1:1:1 ratio, it can be called a gritty mix. Same for the 5:1:1 mix, with the exception of bark fines, or whatever substitute, which needs to be at a higher ratio, if that makes sense.

Wow, thanks everyone for responding!

It's so nice to come home tired and see many responses on my post! ~Springtime, when the GW is busy, fitchii's jumping, and the KQ is high... OK, I took tawny's suggestion of Soixante Quinze first. Sorry...

Danielle, my apartment is too humid already!! It's constantly around 70%. Good for plants, but I'm worried about molds.

Grubworm, I saw a picture of Gardino's Hoya/Orchid mix. The mix one of mine came in is different. I don't think it's coconut husk. It looks like bark/mulch. But I'm seriously considering coconut coir stuff.

You know, Denise, one of the things I learned after spending hundreds of hours of reading posts after posts here is to listen to what you say. You are always observant, practical and speak from your own experience. I really appreciate your comments. You are like a mom who is always right. I'm like a teenager (in spirit) trying to forge through learning the art of Hoya growing without much experience. I can read as much as I want, but really, I'm learning so much from actually doing it. But people like you guide us newbies on to the right path and help avoid disasters and clear up confusions. So thank you! What you said sounds very practical and that's exactly what I want!

Thanks, Jimmy! You're like our resident soil microbiologist! Your Hoyas (and us!) are so lucky to have someone pay attention to soil chemistry and microbes which are SO important but are often neglected. I totally bought the Recharge after your recommendation. It is supposed to have humic acid in it. You inspired me to study more about soil condition. *note to self, buy some charcoal* I know my local hydroponics store carries the Botanicare stuff. The company website doesn't show coir in brick form. I wonder if they discontinued the brick form??

Thank you, aurora, for the very detailed information! I thought the bark clinging to the roots of the plants you sent me looked a lot like Gardino's bark. I didn't even know coir chips came in that small size. I've only seen maybe 1/2 inch or larger sized ones. Your mix sounds like the best of both worlds. More forgiving than the Gritty Mix proper while maintaining the desirable properties of the Gritty Mix. Do you get less water draining from your mix than the Gritty Mix? Do you have a favorite brand for your 1/4" coir chunks? I know salts can be an issue with some coirs. A quick Google search showed small chips from repotme.

So, all three powerhouse Hoya growers with different Hoya growing styles use some type of coconut coir. Hmm, looks like a trip to the hydroponic store is in order. Those nice guys at the store let me buy just a bucketful of most growing media. Now, what to do with my huge bag of Turface?

Again, thank you so much everyone for responding!!!

I don't know much about turface except that it's kind of like kitty litter, right? I imagine it might work the same as perlite, but I'd wait to see what others who have used it think about that...

When you ask a question about growing medium, you will usually get as many different answers as you do people who respond! It's one of those things we all mess with over years to find THE perfect mix (proportions, ingredients, etc.) that matches our watering style. For those with a heavy hand when watering, I bet the gritty mix works well. I have so many plants that it usually takes me a week of watering to get around to re-watering, so I don't want something that's going to dry too fast. Contrary to popular belief, I think most Hoyas don't want to get very dry. We get so paranoid about over-watering that I think sometimes we let them get too dry. Which is why finding that perfect mix for your style is so important!

Denise in Omaha

My local Hoya vendor uses pretty much the same mix as Gardino's except that he doesn't use as much peat but both hold water well while drainage is fast and excess runs out the bottom. Both also used bark mulch. My local vendor uses cypress mulch grade 'B', $3.95 for a huge bail. I bought a coir brick which is the exact kind Denise linked us to and a huge sack of soil aeration Grow Stones. I have some potting soil and a half bag of Perlite. I have used this mix in various proportions according to needs and it works well. Like Denise, I don't have the time or the back to water all my plants several times a week and have yet to find a Hoya that likes to be "DRY" before watering.

It was Denise who started me on coir (I had been reading her various posts on the subject of mixes and decided to give it a try), I used it 50/50 with Grow Stones but had no luck with it here in Florida.

I use coir now to make an excellent filler for topping off a pot that is in need of new top dressing or to spackle in holes in the soil. I mix it 50/50 with some potting soil and perlite and water to make a paste and fill in the holes or smooth over the top to cover the expose roots that always seem to surface. I also use the coir in pinches here and there as needed when a plant gets tipped or something else "happens" to it.

Marco

Denise, yes, Turface looks like a kitty litter. It's the substrate people use on the ground of baseball fields. It makes this weird slight popping sound when I water it. You're right (again). Everyone uses a different mix! I'm more of an under-waterer. But I'm going nuts worrying about plants in my mix getting dry too fast. But I don't even remember when I last watered fitchii (the one that's still in the original mix it came in). The plant looks great, and I water when the mix feels dry.

Thanks, Marco. Sounds like you tried many different ingredients for your mix. I thought cypress mulch was not good for potting mix. Have you used it, or your vendor uses it with no problem? So you mix potting soil, perlite and grow stones?

Aurora, the Orchiata bark you use, is it "Precision" size (1/8-1/4") or "#9 Classic" (1/4-3/8)??

mockturtle, I started using the cypress mulch after finding out that was in my local Hoya vendors mix. He buys it at the same garden center. Mixed with some peat chunks, hollow plastic balls and some charcoal. It is a very fast draining mix that retains enough moisture that you don't have to water every day.

Myself, I have the potting soil with perlite mixture in a gallon container. I like to add just a little soil to my mix but still thin it out with perlite. The Growstones are larger and help better with overall aeration in the pot. The mulch works fine for me and I will include 2 pic of plants in this mix from my local vendor.

First, an Australis ssp. tenuipes, 3 years in his mix, it grows like a weed.

This "chimera" (that's how it was labeled) I bought 2 weeks ago. The same mix, I took a close up to show you and I noticed a small heart shaped leaf right near the soil !

At least I know my Pub loves me ! and I have never seen this mix kill or harm any plant I have potted up when I have used it.

Marco

Thanks, Marco. Your plants look great!

I hope I figure out my "perfect" mix soon.

TMT, don't sweat it too much, we are all searching for the holy grail of mixes. Some items I use are leftovers from previous fails. You will find one that suits you, I am sure. There is enough collective knowledge here to help you navigate your way through this difficult maze.

Marco

Thanks, Marco. I know I won't find "the perfect" mix. I should say "a good enough" mix. And I'll probably keep adjusting as I find new methods or products. I have to find uses for my leftovers. Succulents are cute, aren't they? *falls in another rabbit hole*

TMT, Denise can help you once you reach the bottom of THAT hole ! That's her specialty.

Marco

I used to have my hoyas in a soil mix. After speaking to a grower who pots his hoyas up in a soiless mix that looks just like the pine bark fines that are in Marco's picture of his "chimera" above, I just leave them in that mix. I would say it's 80% pine bark fines, maybe 20% mix of perlite and vermiculate, or peat. I don't really disturb it too much! The water runs right through it so I usually water make 2-3 rounds on all my hoyas and orchids letting the water run out each time. Usually I water once a week or every other week depending on how hot it is outside. Sometimes spritz with fertilizer water. I swore no more but I just bought 7 more today lol!

Would it be possible with the coconut chunk, charcoal, perlite mix to water enough to let the water run through the pot and then leave it in the saucer for 20 minutes or so to let the mix soak up the water or would it do that? Would this be harmful to my plants?

I have my African violets in an African violet mix with extra perlite and I water them, let them sit for 15 to 20 minutes and then dump any water left in the saucer.

Of course the Hoya mix is totally different than the African violet mix so the same thing might not work.

I wouldn't let them soak for more than 10 minutes. You don't want to drown the roots, as hoyas are epiphytic, meaning they grow on and up trees, well, most of them, anyway.

Be sure to rinse very well and soak your mix overnight before potting your plants in it.

I like the bark and perlite mix too. What seven plants did you get??

Janice, I personally don't like large coconut chunks because roots grow into them, and it's impossible to remove when repotting. One of my plants came in a mix of coco chunks (1/2 inch and bigger) and perlite. I did not like the mix at all.

What do you use as I am not too sure about the coco chunks either and I have one plant that I knocked over and need to repot.

I used the coco chunk mix from Gardinos as that was all I had and just filled in on top as a temporary fix.

Does anyone use the hoya mix from SRQ Hoyas? Is it different from Gardinos?

If I am going to totally repot the plant I want to use what it is going to be in for a while.

Thanks!

I have most of my Hoyas in the mix I described in the first post of this thread. The plants seem fine and some are actively growing. My issue was with watering frequency and the large amount of runoff water. I am experimenting with Orchiata bark and perlite mix. I may add a very small amount of coir or peat (potting soil) if this mix dries too fast. I'm still experimenting to find what works for me. I did not like SRQ's mix. It retains too much moisture for me, but YMMV.

Lots of more experienced Hoya growers wrote what they use in this thread. So check it out. If you get overwhelmed, I suggest you follow tawnygrisette's advice (the second comment on this thread).

Lol I just squealed a little.

Okay, serious talk for a minute. Is there anyone else here who doesn't use perlite at all? Am I the only perlite-hater in the bunch?

Tawny, I haven't used it for the last 4 years but have half a bag of perlite left from about 5 years ago. I use that to thin out 'soil' if I use some in my mix. I stopped using it fulltime when I found the Grow Stones and stopped using potting soil as the main ingredient. I also didn't like the way it turns yellow and floats to the top of the pot. With the mulch, coir Grow Stones and charcoal and other things to try, I don't go near the bag at all.

Marco

I hate perlite. Everytime I use it, I feel like I'm getting cancer.

I read that perlite and bark have similar water retention, so it may not even make a difference, but I feel like perlite will lighten up or help aerate the mix. But barks are already chunky... OK, I just feel better mixing something!

What size bark and perlite do you use? Do you add bio charcoal too?

Thanks!

mock turtle, I got clandestine, surigaoensis, abovata, Laos, Chang (or chiang) mei, wilbersive, noelle, chimera. I guess it might have been 8 lol!

Bio-char is different from charcoal. It is a carbon based soil conditioner..looks like black dirt.Helps promote good microbial activity in non-organic growing medium. http://www.amazon.com/Soil-Gardeners-Biochar-Selling-Internet/dp/B0096SJL8E

Do you use biochar, Jimmy? We used to make it! And old timer showed us his secret (totally ridic, involved a coffee grinder but it was amazing) and I am hear to testify that our plants went bananas after adding it to our outdoorsy stuff soil.

I bought a bag if it when it was only 40$.Great stuff though!My mix is one part grow-stones,one part long fiber coir and about 1/5th bio-char.Keeps the life in my medium...lol

Yasss! I love it, I can see why the Great White, etc. works so great with your mix. And why you have so many beautiful blooms!

Thanks! I also like it because you don't have to re-pot every few years because of the medium breaking down.

Janice, I use 1/8-1/4" bark for small pots. I'm going to add slightly larger bark when I repot to larger pots. I'm going to add biochar, but haven't gotten any yet. Perlite is about the same size. I screened for size when I made the gritty type mix, but for bark/perlite mix, I just use them right out of the bag because I want the fine particles too.

Awesome find, wanna_run_faster! H. surigaoensis is on my someday-i-will-have-you list.

Jimmy, if it isn't being too nosy would you tell me how you prepare your mix?

I want to make sure I am getting the correct things to make it and in the correct ratio.

Are the grow stones the soil aerator type or the hydoponic substrate type?

Thank you!

I use the smaller ones..aerator kind....one part stones one part coir and 1/5 part bio-char.The bio- char is a rough estimate,but i usually just mix up enough for a few plants at a time.Like one quart stones,one quart coir and about 2/3 to a cup of bio-char.As long as your medium is chunky and quick draining most of the stuff mentioned on this post will work if used with the great white and molasses.I had to do a lot of tweaking with this for it to work for me.Mostly how often i water,how much i water and regulating my pH with the nutes and soil amendments i use.I always rely on a moisture meter as well.I also have a pH pen that i use from time to time.Some of the best hoya growers are giving up on the grow stones for various reasons.One grower says she has too much water retention in the stones which leas to root rot in some of her plants,and the other has been having high pH problems with the stones resulting in chlorosis and leaf drop on some of his hoyas.With the microbes and molasses,the plants are more forgiving with less optimum conditions like wet feet,overly dry for too long,low humidity,excessive cold,pH issues etc.I just don't want you to spend tons of money and be discouraged if you don't get the results you are looking for.Grow stones has a product with the coir and microbes mixed in already..kinds like the mix i use minus the bio-char.Link for reference..http://www.amazon.com/Growstone-GS-3-Coco-Soil-9-Liter/dp/B00I8J1X9C/ref=pd_sim_86_4?ie=UTF8&dpID=51manGvpMCL&dpSrc=sims&preST=AC_UL160_SR124%2C160&refRID=1PR35PM43EJ1SPRFM24Y

Oh...I'm going to have to try that, thanks for linking.