I miss those 'old days' too even with their sometimes controversial heated discussions! It was fun and lively and I often went off to look up further background info on something that came up in a discussion.

I think that sometimes non-design questions show up here because this forum is active whereas more appropriate forums for a given subject are sometimes quiet. Some might be comatose. Too, landscape design is a fairly inclusive category. It's not hard to stretch some subjects and make them fit. But you're right, Gardengal, that some subjects are off the course and just need to be re-directed. If they only require a short, sweet answer I don't mind some of them. But the ones that go on and on would be better elsewhere.

As far as pining for those great discussions as from the days of old, what is to stop anyone from talking about any landscape design theory, issue, etc., that they wish? No one can be stopped from discussing any of these things, if that's what they wish to do. Conversely, no one can be made to create such discussions and possibly the forum is "dry" because the will isn't there. Or maybe the good discussions have occurred in the past, and all the issues are settled. (???!)

Where people commonly agree does not usually make the fodder for interesting discussions. But where disagreements arise comes a natural invitation to make the case for one's best beliefs. Instead of taking this opportunity and making use of it, I see that many people here have the tendency to remain quietly on the sidelines. Some people don't want to do more than have an opinion, as though just having it is sufficient to justify it. There are countless opportunities for further discussion about theory behind, and issues about, the many subjects that come up ... but almost no one wants to take advantage of them.

As a very long time member of these forums, I routinely visit a great many of them. Although I am a practicing designer with an active business, I am also a horticultural consultant and pretty much a generalist when it comes to anything to do with plants and gardening and the forums where most of these somewhat off topic posts would be better addressed are VERY active - e.g. the Name That Plant forum, Shrubs and Trees, two Lawn Care forums and both the Veggie, Tomato and Soils forums. Nothing comatose about any of those!!

I think the good discussions are missing because 1) very few professionals post here any longer, and 2) most current posters just want instantaneous freebie design advice and are not the slightest bit interested in the theory and practice of landscape design. It is pretty hard to have any meaningful discussion with someone who just wants to know what to plant where.

And I hate to admit it but some of the "pros" who do post on this and the other gardening forums (not you, Yardvaark!!) make me wonder how they ever came to be considered 'professionals'. I am a bit aghast at the questions they ask that are common, basic knowledge or the poor advice given that is counter most accepted practices.

Woody, I'm glad you chimed in :-) It's good to see/hear a few voices from days past and that remember how lively and informative this forum used to be (I think I may be dating myself- LOL!!)

I'm one of those that's quietly on the sidelines and seldom come here anymore. I probably will continue that way. Too busy, for one.

Mike

I wasn't trying to say that all the other forums were near dead. Just that it's sometimes a reason why someone asks a question about a far fetched topic. Now I know it's not a big enough reason so I'll not think it any longer.

If it weren't for people asking for advice, maybe this forum would be near death. I really don't think we can, or would want to hold anything against people who have that as their only interest. They're just trying to get something done the easiest way. As I see it, the opportunities for dispensing advice are also opportunities for promoting theory, even if not overtly discussing it. But then, they are also opportunities for discussing it if anyone so chooses. I think it is up to those who wish to have discussions about landscape design issues, to create them. There may be people gone from the past, but I'm sure many new people have joined in the time since. Most people lurk and there's no way to know who's out there and what subjects, specifically, would excite them. Maybe all it will take is a spark.

I think most people do not know the meaning of landscaping so when they have a garden question they post it here. It's an innocent mistake.

I am not one of the 'old-timers' and I am definitely not a landscape professional, just a home gardener who aspires to landscaping and is interested in learning more about the design process. I have only been following this forum closely, and posting occasionally, for the past 2 years. I have read a few of the old discussions, though, and I too long for the old days! I would LOVE to see more discussion of landscape design theory and practice on the forum. I've thought many times that we should come up with a way to initiate such conversations. If we do get some good discussions started, then maybe new pros will join in or some of the old pros will come back (we can hope!) I have noticed lately that there seem to be a few new pros around, some of which have given sound advice, though I also take your point about some not-so-good advice, gardengal.

The 'tell me what to plant in front of my house' posts may sometimes lead to a deeper conversation, but usually not, and I think people can be hesitant to hijack someone's post. So, how do we get the conversations started? An idea I've had is to start 'critique this landscape' posts. Someone would post a picture of a landscape they find interesting, whether they like it, dislike it, etc., and then other forum members could weigh in with their thoughts on what makes it good design or not, what they like or would do differently, etc., and why. It might be a way to start the kind of conversations I think many of us regulars would be interested in having. Thoughts? Would people be interested in doing this?

I think that would be an excellent way to start!! Thanks for that suggestion.

Here's one possibility..........family members have just purchased a new and very expensive home (new to them but about 20 y.o.) with an extremely attractive and complex professionally designed landscape. It includes many large, mature trees and accent plantings, some rather uncommon. Also great stonework/hardscaping and water features. But it also includes some plants that are - to me - glaringly out of place for the site, like large palms and hardy bananas.

There is a concept in landscape design known as genus loci, or the spirit/character of the site. This is the PNW - not at all a tropical or even warm climate - and with a surrounding natural landscape of tall conifers and other woodsy natives. The palms and bananas seem grossly out of context with the genus loci of this property and with many of the other plantings - Japanese maples, pines, redwoods, Chinese paper birch, Stewartias and rhododendrons. Think an Asian influence with a Craftsman style architecture. Would you remove or leave these more tropical plants in place and why?

OP, you caught me red-handed!!

Im new to Houzz.

I'm new to landscaping, although I've been a plant lover and gardener for a decade or more.

I don't know where to post things, where the question I have at hand fits. To me, landscaping is a good place to start. I'll figure it out with trial and error.

So...

Can you tell me where I'd post the following question please? I'll post it where you guys suggest.

What sort of things would be good to plant (or NOT plant) under the eaves of this south west corner of my house? I'm talking about that area next to the hose. I just removed some crazy thick weedy grass and irises (transplanted those to another area in the yard).

I'm in Portland, OR. Zone 8a. Rainy often. It has been raining a ton this last week but this area is dry as a bone. It's below the drip line from the roof. It's about 2.5 feet from the edge of the house before the soil starts to get water.

I would love to fill this space in with a woody taller shrub, sambucus, for example. Can that be planted in the dry area, or should I move it away from the house?

Close by, I have a little lilac (just planted this year) around the drip line, and a baptisia.

Celia, your question is about landscaping, but it is not necessarily about landscape DESIGN ... the subject area of this forum. I would suggest you consult with the regional forum for the Portland area. Folks who participate there will be familiar with your general conditions and what plants grow there. If you were trying to ask what form, size, character, etc. needed to happen in order to achieve a certain effect (such as "enhance your home") then the Landscape Design Forum would be good for that. But if just for plant selection, the plant lovers in your part of the country would be a better bet.

gardengal...I, too, miss the long ago days of this forum, with Michelle, Bahia, John in Seattle (I forget his forum name, but I remember that he kept his exercise bike under a weeping katsura...). I miss the discussions of gauche gardening, suggestive plant forms, and members getting "sent to Disneyland". Part of what made it special was the cast of characters and part was the overall appreciation of good design. Things went south when designers were replaced by those who favored seas of barkdust and bulletproof plants and the group personality was lost. It's been about twelve years since my days of addiction to this forum. Many great old forums have faded away in the wake of Facebook, but I'd love to hear from some of the oldtimers and learn what they are doing.

Thanks, Yardvaark! I wouldn't of thought to post to a regional forum.

I was thinking shrubs, watering, soil... (Clueless, I tell you ;)

Yup, miss the good ole days too. No more discussions, just DIFM ( as Karin used to say). Still visit here occasionally just to see if anything new or interesting happens...

woodyoak, I think your suggestion of explaining why specific design recommendations are given is a good one. I hope some of the posters take you up on that.

gardengal, I like your discussion topic and would be happy to weigh in, but maybe it needs its own thread. Do you happen to have any pictures? I'd be very interested to see the landscape you describe.

We may not be able to recapture the old days of the forum, but we can still make it more lively and fun.

OK - I've started a new thread :-) I don't have any personal photos of the property yet (they close on Friday!) but will attach the Zillow listing which has a number of great landscape shots and should show the character of the property well.

Please explain to me why "What should I do with my front yard landscape?" is not a landscape design question? In every case, the principles of good landscape design need to be employed to achieve aesthetically pleasing results, along with taking the physical conditions into consideration. I would hardly think that professionals have much time to discuss landscape design on this forum, they are probably too busy doing it. Seems like it could be a place where knowledgeable "hobbyists" come to learn from each other and share ideas. I have shared and learned a lot from folks on the Cooking Forum, and there are some great cooks on there, some with professional experience. But a real professional chef would have little to offer someone trying to get a casserole right for company. If I were a professional chef, I would ask and pose questions probably on some Linkedin discussion group or some other list serve for professionals, or just read blogs or something. I get good ideas from participating in and watching discussions, the source varies, some are "professional" and some are just folks with a great eye and lots of hard won personal experience that they don't mind sharing.

I was active here in 2007. In the last few days I have accessed the posts with 'maro' and relived my time here with nostalgia and great interest. Then I read some of the recent posts and found some of the same people still contributing! This is so great! I see that your concerns about the essence of this forum were the concerns of 2007. And a couple of the responses here are much the same as the responses of laag and others of 2007. (Not to say that the absence of many the people of 2007 isn't felt deeply.) Also a couple of suggestions here that might start a new wave of interest.

P.S. When did Ink disappear? Or is he still here somewhere?

Maro

I learned so much here years ago. Really learned a lot, thanks to the long list of professionals who no longer post here. They can be found elsewhere, but there isn't the same depth of discussion. Short attention spans have altered the exchanges. This was a place for education. Now it is a place for quick generic fixes. I miss the banter, the back and forth, the humor. Gone.

@ Kiminpl ... I am curious, of the "lot" you learned, what might be 3 or 4 examples? (Succinctly summed up, of course.)

maro!! You're back! How the heck are you?? It's been ages since we got together. Message me directly so we can chat and update each other on our lives since way back when :-) And no, Ink is no longer a visitor here.....he has gone the way of most of the other old timers, to other forums or social media or other activities altogether.

Yard - I don't think it's as simple as 'I learned X from Y who used to post here'.... As a result of comments made at various times by Ink, Bahia, Devient Designer (sp?) and others on here I read Hogarth's Analysis of Beauty, and Alexander's A Pattern Language - the discussion in that re using negative space has forever changed how I see a space I'm looking at..., read a number of books on Japanese and Chinese garden design, including (in translation!) historical books, read works by or about designers such as Russell Paige (a pretentious name-dropper :-), but interesting to read about his inspirations and work methods etc.), Roberto Burle Marx, and others. gg48, Bahia, and others introduced me to lots of plants I never heard of. laag was one of the people who showed examples of his work, and was very good at explaining WHY he would do whatever he was suggesting in a mock-up or critique of a poster's landscape. Etc., etc. So, while it may not be possible to point to something in my garden and say 'that is because of this specific thing I leaded on the old LD forum', the discussions there have broadened my knowledge considerably and helped shape and clarify what I like and why. I miss that aspect of the old discussions.

I would think that if someone were to say "I learned so much" that they could at least give a couple of examples out of all the things learned. I wasn't looking for a comprehensive list or a credit as to who taught what, or for someone to teach it again. ...Just the short list of 2 or 3 examples. That's all.

What I learned moved my viewpoint from "this little patch of dirt" to the broader concepts that make a successful design, the bigger picture. It was not something learned from a single example, they were not simple rote rules to be memorized. As a fly on the wall reading continued discussions and challenges between design professionals was like being in a classroom with several masters of the art discussing philosophies. It really broadened my understanding of the complete art of landscaping. There is seldom one "correct" solution with every other idea being "incorrect." Some of the pros were plant geeks while others were more focused on hardscape, some wildly creative and extravagant, and others focused on pure practicality. They were from all over the country, as well as from outside the US, so there was a huge variety in the subjects under discussion in terms of climate, regional differences, legal differences; what works in one situation will not work in another. I am a better gardener now, more thoughtful in advance of taking action, more confident and thorough in execution, more willing to remove or revise things that don't work, and I can more clearly discern my own mistakes. Unfortunately, most often after the fact. (roll eyes)

Kiminpl, that is certainly a worthwhile thing to learn ... to consider the "larger picture" rather than just "this little patch of dirt." We see the patch-of-dirt person showing up on a fairly regular basis here. You can tell as soon as they post their photos. Some of those literally ARE just a patch of dirt, with maybe 16" of foundation included ... as a bonus! I hope many of them are able to learn that important difference before they disappear. I think the concept about the difference is still regularly reinforced.

kiminpl, wow, sounds incredible. Now I am even more sad to have missed it :(

The most important thing I learned was from old timer Ironbelly. To paraphrase him: "A turd will always be a turd. You can wrap it up in tinfoil and it will look all shiny, but it will still be a turd." So many people try to patch up something that was a bad idea in the first place. But tearing everything out and starting from scratch is also intimidating, and costly. Figuring out how to phase in a landscaping plan is still an important and valuable topic for a lot of folks on here. Of course the professional landscaper wants you to tear it all out and start over. That's another thing I learned, both here and in my own real life experience, how difficult it is to find someone who is both good at and willing to help with the "small jobs." And now, as of today, I have a name for what I tend to do, according to Yardvaark, it is the "Landscape designers approach"--overplant and thin later.

I rarely contributed (because I didn't usually feel I had anything of value to add) but read a lot in the old days.

One thing I gleaned was a bunch of questions to ask of how a yard and garden will be used (not just curb appeal) - Deviant Deziner (Michelle) posted a list she gives clients, but many others contributed to the discussion as well.

From multiple posts I learned to look at the big picture, the whole property or the whole back yard first and from there it could be broken down into manageable chunks to actually accomplish the work if needed.

I developed an appreciation for hardscape, that it is a significant part of a design and comes first after the design is done (before the plants!), a real revelation to someone who started with just the plant interest and no concept of anything else being important.

I learned to consider function, whether it was something such as the location of a design element or the materials used, or that a design can be completed without specific plants, but instead with plants that accomplish specific functions within the design.

I learned about the value of repetition and masses, largely from designs and photos posted, but also from the discussions.

" "Landscape designers approach"--overplant and thin later."

Golly - that's an approach I have never undertaken!! And I would be curious to see where Yardvaark advocated that methodology as well. I plan and design for a mature landscape, not one that is instantaneously created and looks full and lush from the word 'go'. In two years that landscape would be horribly overgrown and in addition to having to remove expensive plantings, my reputation as a designer would be at risk. No one wants to 'do over' something in just a couple of years that was a significant investment in time and expense to begin with.

I actually counsel my clients to expect the initial landscape after installation to look rather spotty and underplanted. As it should be!! The plants need time to establish, grow and fill in and that does not happen immediately. If anything, I suggest they fill in the 'blanks' with annuals while the more expensive and permanent plantings do their stuff.

I never said you couldn't use annuals to overplant. Yardvaark, from the post "Need front yard landscaping help" by Smaynard 17, and I quote, "There are different philosophies for landscape creation. A common one
comes from builders: use cheap, fast growing plants and smother the
foundation. Another comes from landscape designers: overplant and thin
later (attempting to give the fullest look the soonest.)" Only if one took oneself way too seriously would I imagine getting too hot and bothered about such an obviously simplified off-hand comment. It was, I guess, a poor attempt at some light humor.

"Overplant and thin later." I do not, and have not advocated that approach, but I see it is common in the industry. It would not be hard to imagine how this could come about. There is a receptive clientele that wants instant gratification. Plant sales generate income. Large budgets generate prestige. Etc.,, etc. In the town where I live we have a new, SMALL public park with a fountain at the center. I read in the local paper that the budget was about $440K. After studying the finished product I was practically horrified. The fountain is nice, but too noisy. The planting is absolutely, positively, overwhelmingly STUFFED with material. The space for walking is the pathways and plaza for the fountain. The green space is too full for anyone to enter. (At least there'll be some good hiding places for muggers in a few months!) They will be removing -- and throwing away -- material for the next 20 years. It's going to be a maintenance nightmare of trimming that a small town budget cannot afford. This is how politicians get glory by obtaining federal funds for their constituents. What a waste! Even though you don't live here, you probably paid a little each for our puny park.

@ I pinkmountain ... I don't understand who you are saying is "hot and bothered" and who is making the "off-hand comment." ....??? Thus, not getting your point.

My point was that I never thought you were serious in that post, and I was not serious so you and I were the people making that off hand comment. I doubt that GG was "hot and bothered" so once again, I am guilty of just making an off hand comment. My point was that I found it odd that GG started a discussion on whether that was the proper way to install a landscape based on my jokey comment about my tendency to be over-enthusuastic when it comes of planting. Frankly, the discussions here are rather prickly and stifling so I think I will be on my way. I came back because I am re-landscaping my parents yard and I thought I might get some inspiration here.

IPM, sorry, I am just lost. I have a very limited amount of time that I can keep track of who said what and where they said it.

I don't know these "prickly and stifling" discussions.

I'm thinking of starting a new discussion post along the lines of what I described above, responding to photos of a landscape. Before I do, I want to make sure I don't commit any faux pas. The landscape I have in mind is from a highly respected LD with a very well known blog (the initials of both the designer and the blog are DS). In general, I think this person designs compelling landscapes, though usually more formal than my taste. Sometimes the designs go against some of the design wisdom on this forum - in particular the advice not to block the view of an entranceway. I would be interested to hear what the designers here think of this. However, I'm not sure if it would be a bad idea to discuss such a well-known designer on an open forum. Also, is it okay to copy photos and post them in the thread? Or link to the blog? Neither of these? Let me know what you think! If the consensus is that it's a bad idea, I'll come up with a more anonymous photo. Thanks!

Personally, I would not be comfortable about discussing or critiquing the work of any designer that was identified (or could be identified) by blog, website or photo. If the photo was completely anonymous - and in this day and age I'm not sure that's possible - then I might feel differently.

Yeah, that's what I thought. I'll see if it's possible to find something sufficiently anonymous.

I have a suggestion for the original premise of this post - "why is this forum suddenly departing from landscape design questions?" Could this forum address be used as a quick link somewhere on Houzz, which tells people something like, "have a gardening question? Ask it here." That could explain a sudden influx of off-base posts.