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Cutting hole in stick-built cabinets for dishwasher - DIY?

Project Tackler
7 years ago

We are planning a gut-and-remodel to our 1968 kitchen in the next year or so, but for the time being, we decided not to wait any longer on getting a dishwasher. I cook a lot and we have a big family --- and like to entertain --- so washing dishes has now become a "hobby," and I'd rather spend my free time doing other stuff!


Waiting on a quote from a general handyman on getting a hole cut to the right of the sink for the 24" Bosch dishwasher on order. He told us it's mandatory to remove formica countertop to do the job. I've read up on it and evidently 50% say that and 50% say you can work around the countertop as is.


Quote hasn't come in yet, but he hinted that it will be a $$$ job. My father-in-law does a lot of DIY work and though he's never done this job exactly, offered to do it if the price is too steep. Is something like this do-able and wise for a DIY'er? Or is this best left to professionals? What things should we be aware of/will we possibly run into? I've searched YouTube for tutorials but can't find much. Seems most of the dishwasher installs on YouTube are more up-to-date box-style cabinets, evidently a MUCH easier job.

(If it were permanent, I'd go with the professional for sure. But knowing that in a little while we'll be starting over with brand new cabinets -- keeping same dishwasher and reinstalling in space created for it -- not sure it's worth sourcing out this job. It doesn't have to be pristine and pretty. Just don't want any open gaps.)


(PS -- electrical and plumbing will be done by professionals. Getting a disposal installed at the same time.)


Pic below. Starting the cut where sink edge ends, so will lose half of under-sink kitchen door all the way over to the end of the adjacent drawer and cabinet door; right at 24". Floor to bottom of formica countertop is exactly 36".

Thanks!

Comments (33)

  • Michael M
    7 years ago

    What are you going to do with the under sink cabinet door? I know you said you'd lose half the door, so are you going to cut it down and re-hinge it? Or re-purpose that 18" door on the right?

    I don't see why a skilled DIYer couldn't do this job, especially if you have licensed plumbers and electricians doing the hookups.

    The key is making everything look like it belongs. So, you want it done by someone who is good with details and finishes - whether it be your FIL or the Handyman.

  • Project Tackler
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Yes, hoping to cut that door down and re-hinge it, probably from opposite side instead. It's a 22" wide door so will be a lot left to work with. Hoping we can salvage enough of the cut-away wood -- both trim and door -- to piece together where spots are bare or lacking.


  • AnnKH
    7 years ago

    My biggest concern would be supporting the right side of the sink. Presumably there is support between the two doors (the one under the sink and the one that is going away).

    Good luck!

  • homepro01
    7 years ago

    What is the size of the cabinet that you are removing? It may be easier to consider an 18" DW. Can you take a picture with the door under the sink open so that we can see how the cabinet is being held up.

  • zmith
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    These types of cabinets are built from the ground up. There will probably be a 1x4 base with ply or particle board laid on top. This is the inside bottom of all your cabinets. Then the divider walls are set on top of that with cleats on the back wall to support the divider walls. Then the face frames are attached. To make the opening you will have to cut through the base and cabinet bottoms. Once you cut this opening, you've essentially removed anything that will support the sink and counter above the dishwasher and the face frames for the adjacent "cabinets". You'll need a piece of plywood to be the new wall of the sink base and the cabinet on the right. It'll also be something to reattach the face frame to. My cabinets have a piece of 1x6 laid flat across the dishwasher and nailed to the divider walls on either side. I actually found a picture from 2014 when I replaced my countertops:

  • PRO
    Central Kitchen & Bath
    7 years ago

    Since your cabinets are not modular (separate face frame for each cabinet) it will be very difficult to cut out the space you need without removing the counter top. You are not just taking out a 24" cabinet and replacing it with a dishwasher.. You are modifying an entire wall. You may find that the price to put in new base cabinets would not be much more than all the custom work you will need to do. Hope this helps...

  • zmith
    7 years ago

    Perhaps you can cancel your Bosch order and purchase a portable dishwasher for the time being until your kitchen remodel takes place.

  • Project Tackler
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Here's a pic of the interior of the right-hand cabinet, under the drawer:


  • Project Tackler
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    and another view:

  • Project Tackler
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    and under the sink:

    I'd like to avoid buying a countertop or portable washer, as these cost roughly what I am paying for the one I plan to keep for years. We did consider that briefly, but decided it wasn't the best option. Also not willing to go to a 18" model because of same reason; when full remodel happens, not wanting a smaller practically-new dishwasher to be tossed and replaced by the 24" we want.


    In regards to the "go ahead and replace base cabinets" comments, we cannot buy this house yet -- it's my grandparents' former home and it's held within a trust. We are doing only modest updates until we can do bigger renovations w/o risk, i.e., when we have a mortgage on the house.

  • zmith
    7 years ago

    For a temporary situation such as this, you would be better off to cut the opening in the cabinet you have pictured and not even mess with the sink space.

  • zmith
    7 years ago

    To clarify, I meant the cabinet to the right of the sink. It's cast iron, right? Heavy and needs to be supported.

  • Project Tackler
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    We thought it was cast iron, but it's not -- it's either fiberglass or acrylic.

  • Nothing Left to Say
    7 years ago

    I can't tell you how he did it, but our GC put a dishwasher into our site built cabinets without removing the tile countertop. So it is absolutely possible. (We weren't ready to remodel but we were sure ready for a dishwasher.). That's subsequently been torn out because we have now done the gut remodel so I can't take any pictures for you. Good luck!

  • zmith
    7 years ago

    Ok, acrylic is lighter than CI but it still needs to be supported.

    I think mamagoose is suggesting you recreate the supports on the cabinet interiors closer to the sink so that the sink and counter are supported when the existing support(s) are cut out for the dishwasher. Depending on the spacing between the existing supports (red arrows point to them below), additional support may be needed on the right of the new dishwasher opening.

    Another thing I noticed is the cabinet in the pic above has plywood below the counter, but your sink cabinet does not. It may not may not be a clearance issue. Speaking of clearance, have you checked that? You have vinyl flooring on probably a plywood substrate, but I would bet your cabinets are built right onto the subfloor. So you may need to lay plywood in the new dishwasher space to get the same height or near as your floor for easy install and removal. I'd definitely check that dimension from your floor to the underside of the counter.

  • ravencajun Zone 8b TX
    7 years ago

    Agree 100% about perfect measurements! I also think it would be much easier and look much better to move over to the right and put it in that cabinet and do not mess with the sink cabinet. That way you avoid the support issue of the sink especially since you are adding the weight of the disposal unit to it. For looks alone I would put it in the cabinet to the right.. More balanced and no weird half doors. Be sure to check all required clearances for the dishwasher some have side venting which must be clear.

  • Project Tackler
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    If I install directly to the right of the sink cabinet and do not go into the sink area, it will take away the cabinet door and drawer shown, as well as encroach halfway into the cabinet and drawer to ITS right.

    I'm ok w/ a half cabinet door there, but not sure if there's a way to remedy taking away half of a drawer, so that'll just have to go away entirely, maybe? Was trying to keep from losing more cabinet/drawer space. But I do see where it may be better not to disrupt sink space....

  • zmith
    7 years ago

    Regardless of which way you go, it'll be a significant amount of work. I can see how you might miss those two drawers if you went to the right.

    What's on the left side of the sink?

  • Project Tackler
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Countertop turns at a corner to the left of the sink, with another cabinet and drawer and then the stovetop/range combo.


  • Meganmca
    7 years ago

    Well, if he's reasonably good with wood, I think he could do it. In addition to what MamaGoose said, I'd be sure there's something under the bottom shelf supporting that new structure down to the floor; not sure what the structure under the cabinets is, but seems like you could just put an appropriately sized piece of wood under the base. You'll want some kind of divider (1/4 in ply at least) between sink cab & DW and old cab to left & DW, so hopefully you've got the space for that (just so you aren't seeing the sides of the DW in the cabinet.

    I'd agree with ZSmith that a cleat along the back attached to the wall would support the counter, along with the cab sides.

    Do measure & remeasure--last thing you'd want is to start working & find you still have to take 2 inches off the next cabinet over.

    Resizing the drawer isn't impossible, I mean, the thing is just a box with, presumably, drawer slides of some kind...

  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    7 years ago

    Yes, zsmith, that's what I meant, having the support for the sink in place before the cabinet is altered. Agree with Meganmca, too--after the right side of the cabinet is cut away, support the bottom of the sink cabinet with blocking under the deck.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    7 years ago

    This is an all day job for a skilled professional, start to finish. Less than $1,000.00.

  • wacokid
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    If I were in your situation regarding the ownership of the house, I would not do this. This will be a very difficult job and it really could ruin the look of the cabinets. Joe just said a "skilled" pro, they are not easy to find. Anyone can claim they can do this job but once you start there will be no turning back.

  • scrappy25
    7 years ago

    There are 8 portable dishwashers on my local craigslist with 3 of them under $100 (all in great working order, per ads). In the "nearby areas" there are 3 more under $100. If you are in a good catchment area for Craigslist, this is cheaper than what it will cost to have a handyman do that cutout (and the plumbing costs) and you can resell them when you redo the kitchen. I lived with a portable dishwasher for 3 years and was so happy to have it that I didn't mind it at all.


  • Project Tackler
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    We looked into portables but don't have room to put one. Also there are no used ones under $100 for sale near us, the few times we've checked. (I'm also squeamish and don't care to own a used dishwasher.) :-)


    The family is rooting for us to put a dishwasher in to make our lives more comfortable and convenient while waiting to buy. They know that not having a dishwasher is a drawback and deterrent to would-be buyers, too, so they feel this would help cover their investment should we decide to back out for some reason (we don't plan to unless the world ends).


    I LOVE to cook and cook elaborately and not having a d/w has forced me to resort to paper plates and many, many sandwiches and heat-ups.

    Believe me, we've thought this through and through, moving from/selling a home with a remodeled kitchen to this one, and have done the "trial period" of living w/o a d/w for 7 months now. Yep, I really want one. And the one I am getting will be the same one that gets re-installed into my remodeled kitchen -- researched them till my eyes bled. So it's not an impulsive decision for sure. :-)

  • Nothing Left to Say
    7 years ago

    In case it is of any help to you, when we had our GC do this (it was done at the same time as a gut remodel on a bathroom--included in the bid for that job and I don't remember at all how much it cost), we had some left over space. Our dishwasher went into the space that had the original ice box for the house complete with exterior deliver hatch for ice. And it was not 24 inches. Our GC offered to make a temporary cabinet door for that space, but I asked him to leave it open and we used it as vertical storage for cookie sheets and such. Maybe a bit simpler than modifying doors and drawers and such. I think that space ended up being somewhere around eight inches wide.

  • practigal
    7 years ago

    You may be able to do this.

    I had the same situation and wanted to add a DW in my kitchen but the counter depth was not the standard 24" so any DW would have stuck out 2" or more. I ended up using a portable for years.

    If this isn't your property you need to get permission before proceeding.

  • Project Tackler
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Thanks. We do have 100% permission. (My mom is one of the trustees of the trust, and all four siblings have agreed to this addition.)

  • Nothing Left to Say
    7 years ago

    Just in case you do have a shallow sink run, our Bosch 800 series fits in our shallow sink run cabinets.

  • Project Tackler
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    I don't have a shallow sink run, but that Bosch is the very one I bought. Love their dishwashers.

  • reh2087
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    @project tackler I'd love to hear what you did for the dishwasher?! We are looking into this same project now, except it's a newly remodeled kitchen and they didnt install or leave the space for a dishwasher, ughhh lol. We just bought the house and are having a difficult time finding someone to do the project..

  • Javier Alvarez
    2 years ago

    How did it go? We’re you able to place the dishwasher and keep the cabinets?