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poaky1

How to best create a soil for palms in a raised bed inground

poaky1
6 years ago

Hi, I am in zone 6 SW Pa. I will be making 2 raised beds for 2 hardy palms. 1 is a Needle palm, the other is a Windmill palm. I will be protecting in winter, but, I will be making raised beds for them, and I wonder what they like in soil. Should I add some Lime for calcium? Do they want the ph to be alkaline or acid? I think neutral or alkaline may be okay for the Windmill. Not sure on the Needle palm. I could look that up etc, but, I am wondering if they need a good bit of magnesium ( both needle or windmill, or both?) and if so, what is the best delivery system? I don't want to resort to Epsom salts, unless that is a good way to do it.

My soil has been nuetral ph in all of the tests I've had done, but, I haven't tested the soil where they'll be planted, which is near the house, where I can plug in a heat source for them.

I have a frame I made to build the soil up 8 inches above the native soil. I would like to know what is best to use to make a decent soil for them. I am willing to order online any soil additive I may need in small quantities. I have some coconut coir soil. The fine stuff, like pet stores have as reptile bedding. I have peat moss already, but, for all I know that may make the PH to acidic, but, maybe if I use the lime I already have, and have heard that Windmill palm may need, it will be okay? Basically, what I have to use is some of the really cheap "topsoil" that is a really sandy mix of who knows what from Wal-mart. The ecoscapes or naturescapes, whatever the cheapest topsoil is, a half a bag of good quality "raised bed soil", the really cheap Wal-mart "potting soil". There may be a couple bags of Vigaro Potting soil, but, that is mostly peat based with other stuff in there, that is basically crap after 1 year of planting. It is nutrient poor after planting in it the first year, by year 2 it's crap. If I used it at all in the beds it would not be very much. I would rather not use it at all in any bed where the plants will stay there for many years. I have made the mistake of using it in 1 bed that I planned on keeping for years. I almost forgot to mention I have 2 bags of cow manure compost to add also. I don't know the PH of it, i am not sure if the bag says what it is, either. I know sometimes when stalls are cleaned out lime is added. Okay, i hope someone can give info. I know that Florida soils are limestone underneath in many cases, and I think Windmill palms grow there, also Needle palms. Anyway, I hope someone can shed some light. Thanks

Comments (13)

  • poaky1
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    I also have some clay soil that I can add sparingly in with the other stuff. I can mix it in, and it will not cause a drainage problem. I would add it because I've heard that clay soil has a lot of fertility. Other than that, I would'nt bother. The clay soil was given to me as fill soil for a huge tire planter. Nothing will grow in the clay filled tire, it's a huge tire, I'd love to get rid of some of that clay, and mix in with the sandy top soil in bags, but, I don't know if it is really full of nutrients or not. I would mix it all so that it still all drains well. Okay, I hope someone can help.

  • glib
    6 years ago

    palms are similar to grasses. They are strongly myc., so add some native soil where grasses grew. Other than that, mix some OM and some earthworms.

  • poaky1
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Hey Glib, thanks for replying, but, that isn't specific enough for me. I know grass fertilizer is a great deal nitrogen, grass sucks up the nitrogen, and palms aren't like that. By myc. do you mean beneficial fungus, like mycelium, or something like that? I will be adding some clay soil that is native to an area about 1/4 mile or less down the road from me, but, I'll be adding it sparingly to some bagged topsoil and I'll try to add some of my native topsoil, but, I'm not sure where to harvest it from quite frankly. I will have to dig up some soil from somewhere, the clay is subsoil from a neighbor, which I have already. I appreciate your trying to help, but, I don't think that grasses are so much like palms, they are more like Bamboo, which is in the grass family, or related anyway. later.

  • floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK
    6 years ago

    Trachycarpus fortuneii will grow in pretty much any soil. In UK gardens they are just planted in whatever soil is present and they don't get fertiliser. They are extremely easy. About the only maintenance is cutting off the dead fronds.

    What is the rationale for making a raised bed? Being above grade it will be colder in the winter.

  • poaky1
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Floral, my whole soil mixture needs problem is because I had just bought a Windmill palm seedling, it was bareroot, I put it in a good quality potting soil, and watered it almost daily, and it died, or is dying. There were giant drainage holes in the pot I put it in. Here's a pic from before it went totally brow. So I figured it is a soil deficeincy. I wasn't sure where I wanted it, so just potted it right away. It started turning brown right after I got it and potted it up. Maybe the plant should've been put in the shade right after being potted after being shipped bareroot? I've heard that many palms need magnesium in their soil, and just today manganese also. i may just get a Trachy. Princeps instead of another Fortunei. I have to protect in winter anyway, and Princeps is supposed to be nicer looking, thicker fronds, less wind damage. I know Princeps likes limey soil, well drained. They grow on limestone cliffs, i can add dolomitic lime in the soil for them, it has magnesium in it. It's slower growing which is great when you are covering a palm every winter.


  • poaky1
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    I forgot to add that my soil is rocky where i want to plant it, so thought a raised bed would be better and looser soil. It will be right next to the house so I can plug in my winter protection heat source for the palm. I may plant it a bit out from the house where the soil is looser, the trunking palm I get, to replace the dead Trachy Fortunei, and put the Needle in the raised bed.

  • glib
    6 years ago

    myc. means mycorrhizal. the plant needs to associate with certain fungi to be healthy. those fungi spores are present in local soil but not in artificial soil.

  • poaky1
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Okay Floral, even in a pot in hot weather? Okay glib, that's what I thought, but, palms grow in many soils without any good fungus in them. I know oaks and other plants that grow in, and make woodlands need the fungus to access many nutrients, but, palms, I would've never though that. There isn't any of that in Floridas alkaline and/or sandy soil. Or I would'nt think so. Maybe I'm wrong, but, I think Windmill palms are grown in Florida. When I've gone there I never payed attention to what palms I had seen. I probably could'nt ID them from one another. I know Trachy princeps grows high up on limestone cliffs. I doubt there is much myco up there. I may be wrong, but, I don't think it would be up there. I know my Needle palm is fine, so the 2 palms I have much like different conditions. I will try and put the trunked palm I get to replace the Windmill, in the soil with no or not much bagged soil. Sometimes you have to use some bagged, there's not enough soil to cover the rootball after planting for some odd reason. I'll post current pics below.

  • poaky1
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    The top 2 are the Windmill palm, still a tiny bit of green left
    and bottom pic is my happy needle palm same potting soil and it's happy. Watering every day. Maybe Needles like lottsa water, though.

    I even have mulch in with the Needle palm

  • poaky1
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Maybe I should see if we have any epsom salts and if we do add a tiny bit to the next watering for the Trachy Fort. In case of magnesium dificiency? One answer to my post about this palm said maybe it needed magnesium. I have a bunch of little sabal minors and they look a bit pale, but aren't dying. I have to keep them potted, they are too small, and too many to put all of them and protect in winter.



    The top pic is my regular sabal Minors and the bottom is my sabal minor "Mc Curtain". I think it grows up in Oklahoma, and is hardier. I know it's supposed to be hardier than regular Sabal Minor, once bigger of course. The Sabals are all watered the same. I just potted them all up in new potting soil this spring, the same as the Windmill "Vigaro" with fert in it. The Reg sabals are paler than the Mc Curtain. That's lichen on the soil surface of the Mc Curtain. I will need to leave the Sabals potted until they're bigger. I would love to give some away, and keep only 2 reg. I want the Mc Curtain. I got a bunch when I ordered them off Ebay last spring 2016.


  • poaky1
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    The middle growing point was rotten with the Windmill palm i originally posted about. I have gotten a replacement, and planted it right in the ground, and I'm shading it from some of the sunlight because it was sent bareroot wrapped in moist papertowels, so i don't want it to have all sunlight, but, it will eventually be in "full sun". I added some lime with magnesium in it, and will be getting my "palm fertilizer" soon in the mail. I am not sure my soil has all the micronutrients, and I have potted Sabal Minors I need the palm fert for anyway, so it hasn't died yet, (crossing fingers) and my other seemed to decline right after potting, maybe the potting soil was too moisture retentive.

  • poaky1
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I have since gotten another Trachycarpus Fortunie, and planted in my native soil and it is doing fine now, I will add some fertilizer along side of the bed before adding mulch for winter, but, I think the new palm is doing better because of me putting it in the ground in "real soil", and the fert doesn't hurt, that's for sure, I just added some fert and some limestone with magnesium in it as a top dressing.

    I have used a umbrella to shade the new Trachy. Fortun, right after planting it, which I hadn't done for the new 1 right after planting in a pot and putting in full sun. So I know I've babyed the new Trachy. Fortun. well enough, I planted it in the ground, shaded it and provided any nutrients it could need right after planting, and I've watered it about every other day after planting. So I know that the Windmill palm is in the best state it can be. I just need to protect it in winter. I already have info on building shelters for it, so other than some questions for those who have made shelters, care for these palms should be okay now. If someone mentions a certain nutrient they need that i don't know, go for it, but, I did purchase A 'pALM FERT" I DO need to get a "time release palm fert", but the 1 I have now is good to use for now.