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clarion23

Which palm trees can be grown in Russia (USDA zone 8a)?

Hello!

First I apologize for my very bad English.

I live in Russia on the Black Sea coast, 100 kilometers from Sochi (USDA zone 9a). My town is called Tuapse (USDA zone 8a). In the city for many years grow cypressus sempervirens trees, prunus laurocerasus, trachycarpus fortunei. Tell me, what palm trees I can try to grow in my city? In Russia, I can not get such advice.

On the photo - Tuapse teperature archive.


Comments (22)

  • Igor Smirnov (8a zone, Tuapse, Russia)
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    The graphs show the temperature in the Celsius scale.


    Thanks for the nice and detailed advice! Yes, perhaps, a sabal must be planted! But it is also interesting to grow a Washingtonia filifera. What do you say about this? Chamaerops humilis, who, I think, was about 6-7 years old, was planted from a pot two years ago and suffered two winters without damage at a minimal temperature of 15 ° F. Yukkas in our climate feels great, but we are so used to it that we do not see exotic things in it.) We have a banana tree, this is already a passed stage.) I want to try to grow bamboo named Phyllostachys pubescens edulis, but all the seeds that I bought on Ebay did not sprout. ( Nerium in our garden have been growing for 4 years with winter protection in the form of fleece hide, but some bushes regularly freeze in winter and restore during the summer (summer is quite hot with occasional rains). Arbutus unedo, Eriobotrya japonica, Cortaderia, Mahonia japonica, Rosmarinus, Magnolia Grandiflora - they all pass through the winter without protection and without damage. In April 2016, we planted one-year-old Eucalyptus Debezavillei and Niphophila from the pot and they passed through the winter with no damage with a temperature drop of -15 degrees F and stood steadily in the snow. Still, the main question is whether Washingtonia filifera will survive in our climate? Slightly to the south of us, 30 kilometers away, in the village of Lazarevskoe, for 30 years Washingtonia filifera has grown beautiful and blooming, similar to the feet of elephants.) In any case, I sincerely appreciate your advice. Thank you.

  • User
    6 years ago

    You could try a filifera or a hybrid 'filibusta' which is a cross between filifera and robusta. Filifera is cold hardiest but can resent high humidity or excessive wetness; the filibusta is better with the moisture concern..., it is also faster (being that there is robusta in the genes). You could also consider a Phoenix palm (Do you see Canary Island Date Palms??) If not, the Cretan Date (Phoenix theorphrasti) is supposed to be the cold hardiest of the Date palms (I do believe.) P.S., I would warn you that the bamboo you listed is a running species and will become invasive if your climate provides adequate rainfall!

  • Igor Smirnov (8a zone, Tuapse, Russia)
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    O. Our climate from December to April provides quite a lot of rainfall, so, judging by everything, bamboo will grow on the whole of Tuapse.) Thanks for the warning! We have Phoenix palm trees growing in the park, but in winter it requires a lot of effort to protect it - we cover it with a plastic box and heat it. If you leave this palm without protection in our climate, then it will lose some of the leaf tips, the recovery of which will take a couple of years..) But I did not know anything about Phoenix theorphrasti! The website davsgarden.com shows that it is hardy up to 7b zone! This must be checked and tried! In Russia, there is no problem in buying Trachicarpus palms, but finding Phoenix theorphrasti will be much more difficult and interesting! Currently, I am trying to grow a Washingtonia filifera from seeds purchased from Ebay (Thermal, California, United States).I hope that the formation of the trunk does not take forever and we will be able to see and understand how much this palm tree likes our climate.)Thank you again for the excellent advice and responsiveness!

  • User
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Washytonias are FAST and EASY from seed but need heat; but as I said, filifera can have issues with moisture and frankly, I just find either the hybrid or the robusta a more vigorous grower.

    There are clumping bamboos that are cold hardy and perfectly well behaved..., (I myself have a grove of Fargesia rufa.) I do have running bamboos but I have dark forest around me, and some low-lying wetlands..., which should help contain the growth naturally.

    There are other plants that are not palms that are subtropical that might also work for you. A few species of cycads for example are relatively cold hardy but would need a gritty mix kind of soil for drainage (Cycas revoluta, Zamia floridana, even a Dioon). And while still in the Jurassic theme an Araucaria araucana (Monkey Puzzle tree) and a few tree ferns (Dicksonia antarctica).

    Should keep busy for a while!

    P.S., A word of CAUTION; Cretan Date is viciously sharp..., worse than a Canary Island believe it or not

    Igor Smirnov (8a zone, Tuapse, Russia) thanked User
  • Igor Smirnov (8a zone, Tuapse, Russia)
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Thank you, subtropix!

    I'm not sure that the hybrid (filibusta) is cold enough to survive our winter. Have you looked at the temperature table for Tuapse for 55 years? Will cicas revoluta and filibusta survive in this climate? I'm not sure...May be sabal palmetto?

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    There are many large Phoenix in Sochi, right?

    Subtropix covered everything quite well. Good luck being a horticultural pioneer!

  • Igor Smirnov (8a zone, Tuapse, Russia)
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    These are palm trees growing in the Sochi arboretum.


    Sochi is territorially located the southern of Tuapse for 90 kilometers and is much more reliably protected by the ridge of the Caucasus mountains from the cold of the plains of Russia. Indeed, in Sochi, many mature palm trees - Phoenix Canariensis, Washingtonia robusta, Washingtonia Filifera, Jubea Chilensis, etc .. Many of them were planted even during the Soviet Union era.

  • Igor Smirnov (8a zone, Tuapse, Russia)
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Here are some more photos of Sochi on March 8, 2015.

    The air temperature is 54 degrees F.

  • stanofh 10a Hayward,Ca S.F. bay area
    6 years ago

    Sochi is 9b. 8b is more limiting- its on the edge of the palm world. You might try for cultivars of hardiest palms. Silver or blue Med Palms, Variegated. Rhapsis might be hardy for you. Needle palms I'm sure you know about. Silver Butia's.

    That's a huge Butiax Jub palm hybrid in that 3rd to last photo I'm guessing.

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Trachycarpus fortunei reliably grows in almost all of the world's 8a climates, provided they are otherwise taken care of. (right amount of shade or sun, right amount of water, etc.)

  • Igor Smirnov (8a zone, Tuapse, Russia)
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Thanks for your advice, stanofh 10a and davidrt28!

  • poaky1
    6 years ago

    Wow, I had always thought that Russia was a very cold climate in winter, way colder than zone 7 even. I am surprised that it would be zone 8 anywhere in Russia!

  • Igor Smirnov (8a zone, Tuapse, Russia)
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Hello Poaky1 !

    I think in Russia there are USDA zones from the 1-st in Khatanga to 9a-9b in Sochi and Adler. A narrow strip of subtropics along the Black Sea coast has an area of less than 1% of the entire country. But this is a very beautiful strip of land on which mountains and forests are located, palms, eucalypts, tea, citrus and oleanders grow on it.

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Yep. Even after the breakup of the USSR, Russia is still the world's largest country by landmass, occupying a gigantic swath of Eurasia. it's not surprising that at least a tiny sliver of it has a mild climate.

  • poaky1
    6 years ago

    I am still shocked, but, the UK is pretty far north, and they have zone 8 and I THINK a small area that is zone 9a. I would need to move a bit southeast to be in zone 7a, like about 200 miles southeast, I'm totally jealous! I will be protecting my palms this winter with lights and a cover, and my Cannas and Ensete banana will need put inside for winter.

  • Igor Smirnov (8a zone, Tuapse, Russia)
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Hello again!

    I want to buy and transplant this sabal palm (picture below). I do not know what variety it is. In my opinion, this is some kind of sabal palm hybrid. Its grows in the field. If I to dig this palm out of the field, can I successfully transplant it? Or after transplantation, this paim tree will die, since does not have a trunk? Who will help me with advice? Thank you.


  • poaky1
    6 years ago

    If there is no trunk it is likely Sabal Minor, I have several of them that are still babies, they look nice in a grouping under trees in the southern US. I'll have to protect mine in winter, they are zone 7 hardy, I'm zone 6. They can take shade in the south, and likely where you are also. I wonder what kinda oak trees do you grow in Russia? I know that Live oaks may not grow well there if you have mostly cloudy weather, but, you have the milder winters that Live oaks would prefer. I say this because the Sabal Minors grow well under Live oaks in the southern US. I'm guessing you may have English oaks in your area? I have 2 in my yard. WEll, maybe you aren't even interested in shade trees. Okay, Later Igor.

    Igor Smirnov (8a zone, Tuapse, Russia) thanked poaky1
  • Igor Smirnov (8a zone, Tuapse, Russia)
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Hello, poaky1!

    Thanks for the comments to my question. According to
    the staff of the arboretum in Sochi, this sabal is more than 20 years old. May
    be. I hesitate to buy it, dig it out and transplant it to our park. I'm afraid
    he will die. About the Quercus virginiana. I'm in love with this oak tree.)
    Very handsome and noble. But in our places almost nobody knows about it, and I
    have not seen it anywhere. I had to buy acorns on Ebay and independently grow
    seedlings of three varieties of evergreen oaks. I hope to plant them in the
    open ground in the spring of 2018. This is Quercus ilex, Quercus virginiana and Quercus chrysolepis. I hope these oaks can live in our climate for many years. Our summer is quite hot and dry. The temperature in August may be to 95°F. Winter is often mild, but very rainy. There are several varieties of evergreen oaks, which I hope to find and grow.

  • poaky1
    6 years ago

    I wonder how expensive it would be for me to send you a few of my little Sabal Minors, I have several. I will likely not have room for all of them. I can send you a few maybe, if you are interested.

    As for the oaks, I'm kinda glad you are interested in them because I will be talking about them now. I LOVE Live oaks, I can't grow the Quercus Virginiana here in Pa zone 6, but, I'm growing a hardier variety of Live oak, but, it grows really slow. I've tried a Quercus Ilex also, but, it died, and as far as the Quercus Chrysolepis, it is also zone 6 hardy at least and I'm zone 6. So I must be happy with my Quercus Fusiformis "Quartz mountain". You can look it up if you care too.

    If your interested in my baby Sabal Minors let me know, maybe I can send you a few when they are dormant in October. I don't expect any money for them as long as I can send them dormant with no soil to make the package heavy.

  • Igor Smirnov (8a zone, Tuapse, Russia)
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Hello, poaky1!

    Thank you for your disinterested offer. But I'm sure that the palm seedlings will die on the way. I do not want this to happen. Therefore, I ask you not to do this. I will be very sorry if the seedlings die. Thanks again for your offer! Russian Post sometimes works slowly. ( Now I'm worried about the transplant to the open ground of a trachicarpus, grown in a pot. The height of the trunk of these palms is about 4-5 feet. I hope the roots will not be damaged if they are transplanted. September in Tuapse is warm - in the daytime up to 77-86°F at night from 59 to 70°F. October - day 68-77°F, night 54-61°F. In November it is cooler, but there is no frost, as often in December. I hope, before the onset of frost, palms will have time to establish itself before winter.

  • poaky1
    6 years ago

    Okay, I don't know how long it would take, but, I guess you know your postal service better than I do. I have too many, but, I guess maybe someone closer to me may want a couple. I may try to cover one after planting it in the ground. I am overwintering my Windmill palm (Trachycarpus Fortunei and Needle palm with lights and a cover in winter, so I may try the Sabal also.