Out of curiousity, were they actually the Kordes' roses or Weeks'? Last year a few of us bought roses from Lowe's that were either labelled "multi-rose", or had tags with old HTs pictured only to find DA tags buried beneath the soil. Even those missing the green tags were Austins, just NOIDs. I'm still trying to figure out one I got.

I've seen quite visibly wrong labels on nursery stock at warehouse stores multiple times. As in a block of one kind of magnolia - in flower - with 3 different variety color picture cards. Or the opposite, that is 3 kinds of conifer all labeled as one.

I've also seen a shelf space rental system being used here, same as at grocery stores. So a given warehouse store may have nothing to do with how certain parts of their garden center is being stocked and maintained - if you ever see people working the shelves wearing vests that say Vendor on them that is a definite indication.

In each instance, the rose in the container clearly was not the Kordes rose named on the accompanying tag. This is what prompted me to search for alternate tags in the soil. Though in each case, the impostor's bloom color was roughly the same as that of the Kordes rose it sought to be.

In the case of "Heart Song"/Showbiz, I'm highly confident it was Showbiz, which I grew for many years, despite its regular defoliation from blackspot. (Only last year was it removed, to make way for Ruby Vigorosa.) The other roses with Weeks tags matched their corresponding descriptions at both the Weeks website and HMF.

The man to whom I pointed out the problem was not a HD employee. I recollect he worked for the company that transported the roses from Hopewell Nursery to HD, and then set up the display. I sometimes saw his truck, which bore the company's name. I don't recall it now; it was neither Hopewell nor Ivy Acres.

This is worrisome news . I hope this does not happen in FL . Since Star Roses had bought kordes production rights this year , I was waiting for this spring to see if HD or Lowes will carry them . Now I will have to look for potential hidden tags !

and then set up the display

This sounds like what I was talking about, as in the store renting shelf space to a third party.

Rifis,

Just to be sure, are you saying that the names on the tags attached to the roses' shanks, that you discovered as you dug around the pots, appeared to match the actual rose within the pots, and not the roses portrayed on their hung tags higher up on the bushes? If so, what do you think's going on? Have you been able to come to a conclusion?

Moses

Moses, this is what happened at Lowe's, but I'd be upset if I thought I was buying a Kordes rose and got an out of patent HT. It's not quite the same thing ending up with an Austin Rose instead. I could never figure out how it benefited the propagator.

Moses: Yes; I believe each rose was correctly identified by its Weeks tag. What was behind it all? I don't know. I suspect carelessness, rather than deceit. I agree that HD likely neither knows nor cares.

Similar to what Embrothrium has observed, non HD people grow, transport, display and care for all the live goods at this HD. Some apparently work for each other. I've seen Kurt Weiss people carefully deadheading and tidying up Ivy Acres roses. A Kurt Weiss lady confirmed there's a formal arrangement for them to do this for Ivy Acres. As to who sets the prices for the roses, I don't know. But I once asked a Woods Nursery rep (annuals at HD) "who set sales price for Woods' annuals?", and he told me HD did. That sounds more complex than simply "renting space".

HD people man the check-out registers.

I know this is a bit O.T., but my questions' answers may have a connection to the HD 'switcheroo.'

When does a grower pay the royalty to the owner of the patent on a patented rose?

Does the grower buy patented rose plugs/propagating material, and the royalty fee is included in the purchase price?

If a grower has his own, still under patent mother stock roses in his nursery bed, does he pay the royalty fee when he sells the patented rose he propagated from his own cuttings or bud wood (for grafted roses), or at the beginning of propagating process?

Curious Moses...thinking like a detective during the current deep freeze here in W. PA.

This is strange for many reasons but primarily: Why would a nursery go to the extent of paying royalties for the labels and such and put some other rose in the pot? My guess, and I've seen this but the other way around (No name labels on roses that turn out to be Kordes), is that they paid for the labels and pots but the bare root never took so they put in another rose that did figuring the buyer wouldn't notice.

Not nice.

-Adrian.

Arguing against deceit is the fact that each rose I examined bore not only a highly visible hanging Kordes tag, but also a Weeks tag, a portion of which usually was visible above soil line.

Rifis,

What I think happened in the case of Pretty Lady being relabeled Purple Rain is that Ivy Acres was contracted to provide Purple Rain to Home Depot. Both roses are currently under patent, so royalty payment issues probably don't factor in.

Ivy Acres came up short with sufficient stocks of Purple Rain to fill the order, but had sufficient stocks of Pretty Lady to use as 'substitutes.' The tags on the Pretty Ladys were left on (they were very likely placed on them when they were harvested in the fall of 2016), simply because the time/labor expense of removing hundreds or perhaps thousands of tags was not worth it.

Also, who would know? Only a rosarian like you, Rifis, a person with an inquiring mind, and strong powers of observation, would discover the cover-up.

That's my theory.

Moses

I don't think the box stores give a hoot. The plant lives or dies, not their concern. It's the growers/ suppliers who care for them and eat it if the plants do poorly. What do they care about the variety? They have sold mislabeled bare roots for years and never responded to any of our complaints. Buyer beware at these places!

In SE VIrginia, Home Depot contracts with a local nursery to produce most 0f the plant material, arrange the displays and provide all the care. Plants that are not up to par are pulled by nursery employees and put back on the truck. The nursery employees are fairly knowledgeable but when they're not there, good luck getting answers to plant questions. Since the nursery eats the losses they are motivated to take good care of the plants and locally, they do a very good job keeping up with the watering.

Lowe's, on the other hand, has a plant specialist in the department assisted by others who have some on-line training. The Plant Specialist does the ordering and makes markdown decisions. Our Lowe's has several employees who are knowledgeable and their training is geared towards assisting customers. During peak season they are assisted by vendors who unload and arrange the plants. In our local store, the nursery has a subsidiary who provides these merchandisers, called Plant Partners. Lowe's expects the merchandisers to focus on tasking and let Lowe's employees handle the customers. The weak point in this arrangement was that the watering was supposed to be handled by part-time, untrained employees. (One told me she refused to water the Kordes roses because they were so thorny and she wasn't provided any gloves!)

I've worked at both stores.

Another interesting thing I saw at HD this past summer, though not involving Kordes roses: Ivy Acres grown tree roses labelled Eyeconic Lemonade were for sale (though they looked more like Eyeconic Pink Lemonade, based on the Star Roses website photos).

The Star Roses tag accompanying each said "not recommended for the South and Northeast (or East)", or something very close to that exact wording. Reference to Western locations, as well as blackspot susceptibility, may have appeared on the tags, too.

We have a brand, spanking new Lowe's here in town. They have three gallon BUDDED roses in pots proudly displaying the logo "Kordes Collection". So far, all they have received is one variety, which I am having difficulty remembering as it was about a week ago I last checked. It's double, light pink (on the tag, but more orange pink from photos on HMF) and was one Nanadoll (Dianne) and several others have posted about here recently. I found it interesting the plants were budded and appeared to be the standard Grade #1.5 pushed types the big box stores are infamous for. I didn't notice a grower's name on the tag or pot, but as it was extremely smoky with a lot of ash falling, I didn't linger much longer than to make sure that was the only Kordes variety on the table.

I got a budded Kordes rose last year there it was what was advertised and is doing well. If it wasn't in bloom, I would not have brought it home. I believe it was the same size #1.5 as you described but grew very fast after being liberated from the pot. They had about 5 varieties in a "perfume collection".