You might consider asking that question in the Home-Barista espresso machines forum. The forum is pretty active and has a lot of espresso machine owners so you should get some good responses.

Thanks Bob, I may do that. I use to go on CoffeeGeek a bit but it kind of dwindled, though seems to have recently picked up a bit. Kind of comes down to getting tired of having to create too many logins on too many different websites that even with a good password manager like onepassword gets to be kind of a PITA and then this is topped by getting old and not always being able to remember what question I posted on which forum when. :-)

Sophie, as a general rule or starting place yes but as a hard rule no. That's a bit like the 'kitchen triangle' that resulted (and still does) in a lot of bad kitchen designs by inexperienced, uncreative, and not so intelligent designers.

This is a good case in point, most good espresso machines will require more than 18" height between countertop and upper cabinets. In this case likely 22-24". A friend did his 30". Another friend did 21" above the counter and 10" deep so that she could have her knives and stuff more easily accessible on the wall.

Greater countertop to upper height (or shallower uppers or no uppers) can also greatly increase the openness of a kitchen and make it more airy and pleasant. We have a 5" deep cabinet that not only imposes less on the space and helps to open it up a bit but is extremely convenient as every can or bag of chocolate chips is in front.

I only have a Jura, but in addition to the height of the machine make sure you have enough room to do the normal operations such as filling the beans and water (if you have them). I currently have to slide the machine forward on the counter to dump the beans in.

Good points. I've a Mazzor Mini grinder and I have to do the same. Would be nice not to have to do that. Same for filling the water in my Silvia. New machine will be plumbed so at least the water filling part will be easier. Shallower cabinets might allow me to fill the bean hopper on the Mazor. I'll have to play with that.

My unit does not have a cabinet above it. I agree with Sophie. When the cabinet is more than 20” off the counter, the ergonomics of using the cabinet change, can you place the espresso machine somewhere where there are no upper cabinets? Also consider the heat that the units put out may damage the base of some cabinets depending on how long they are on for on a daily basis.

Good luck!

opaone - I agree with you on the PW situation, but OTOH it might be a small inconvenience to get the kind of specific information you want. It just seems much more effective to ask a community of espresso machine owners about cabinet placement for espresso machines. I mean they have a 515 page thread with over 5000 comments complete with pictures of the member's espresso machines in their expresso machine forum..........so you know they've put a lot of thought into the placement of their espresso machines.