$250 a yard for bulk soil??? That's crazy!! I wouldn't consider buying that for a single heartbeat....no soil is worth that much. Unless it contains a few nuggets of gold in the mix.

Just curious but what do you consider non-organic about the soil-leaf mold mix? Unless there are synthetic fertilizers or moisture additives included, any soil is considered "organic" :-))

And I agree with the above that garden soil is the best base to start with but many gardeners do not have piles of excess soil sitting around with which to fill raised beds. So imported or purchased soil is often the way to go. If those are your only two options - and bulk is always (or should always be) cheaper than bagged - then I'd opt for the soil-leaf mold mix. Might need to mix a little compost into it but I see no advantage to the so-called "organic garden blend" over the less expensive mix.

The beds are just starting out so nothing yet. This is in the suburbs of Westchester, NY. I don't plan on mixing with my lawn soil as we have a lot of deers and other critters.

So the organic expensive stuff isn't worth it?

Not in my book!! Why would you think it offers any advantages the other doesn't? And at almost 4 times the price.

And I'm not sure I understand about the deer and the soil.......one really has no impact on the other.......

Yeah, I grew up in Orange County, NY. The soils of Southern Upstate NY are generally pretty good stuff. You don't have to dig up the lawn, but if it's at all possible, get in there and loosen up that soil under the beds. You'll find that it will fluff up quite a bit. Use that as a base, and mix in some of the bulk soil you choose. I do completely agree with gardengal that unless you have money to literally bury in the back yard lol, $250 is just far too steep for my blood. Everyone's financial situation is different though, and it's obvious that at least some people in that area find it 'worth' the price.

The only reason I wouldn't use the native soil is if there's been a LOT of persistent herbicides used on it, and unless I'm wrong, most of those aren't approved for lawn use. And... if you have a crew who takes care of your yard, ask them what they are spraying. Herbicide drift is a real concern for gardeners who have lawn crews who manage yards, but aren't educated on how those chems can affect veggie and fruit crops.

I'm a bit squeamish about deer droppings getting into the soil for vegetables. Also, yes the gardners do spray for weeds in the lawn... so I need to take that into account when they are scheduled to do it. If I do go the subsoil - leaf compost route , which I think I will do, what should I mix in to start the raised bed? Any specific fertilizers/ammendments?

thank you all

Deer droppings, like any herbivore manure, are quite safe to use in the garden, although it is best to let it age well before using with any edibles.

Without seeing the soil it's hard to be specific about any amendments but adding a couple of bags of compost sure won't hurt. And I might include a sprinkling (according to the label) of some sort of complete organic fert like Plant Tone or Tomato Tone and mix it in well before planting.

How about subsoil? Is there any disadvantage to using that in a raised bed garden? I guess it’s hard to say without seeing and feeling the texture. Any thoughts?

Reason for asking is I haven’t heard of a subsoil + leaf compost mix for raised bed use.

I haven't either. And that price per yard seems excessive for that as well. Typically what is sold in this area is termed a 'garden mix" (aka landscaper mix or 3-way planting mix) and is usually a screened topsoil, compost and a drainage enhancer like fine bark, sawdust or sand. And sells for around $30 per yard.

I would be slightly concerned that the "subsoil" was more clay than not and that the leaf mold did not supply enough texture and durability for good drainage and would be a little deficient in nutrients. But adding some coarse compost should offset much of that.

Even if a somewhat inferior product than the "organic" mix, there is nothing that would justify paying $250 a yard for a raised bed soil!!

I know many here don't like to even suggest getting a soil sample but IMO it's like walking in the dark w/o one. Then to add things you don't know if they are needed or you are adding too much. I would be inclined to sample any bulk mix before a purchase also.Some places simply sell trash, JMO.

For $250/yard think about how many veggies you can buy from the farmers market for that money and save yourself a bunch of work in the hot sun.

Ideally, the soil should have be prepared beginning in the fall. All good things take time.

Be sure the area you are planning on is not only convenient to water but get FULL sun (6-8hrs) depending on what you will grow. This may be hard to determine until the trees all leaf out.

HTH

thank you for the advice. I found another supplier of compost which includes horse
manure, shavings and straw bedding, along with leaves and cow manure. How does that sound in a raised bed? I would mix this with soil, correct?

As long as the manures are composted (or at least very well aged), it should be fine. And yes, it needs to be mixed with real soil.

I agree with gumby concerning the nutrient and pH issue on this one. I would definitely suggest that after you finish mixing the bed, you get a soil test. This fits the case of those who seem to be just beginning gardening (I apologize if I'm wrong on this,) and are asking about what types and quantities of ferts to use. The honest answer is that no one can say definitively what to add, or how much, without a professional soil test. Especially when the mix is called 'subsoil' - I'll give them kudos, though, for honesty! There's a group of gardeners from that area of NY who frequent the Vegetable Gardening forum. Make a post over there asking about where to get a test and I'm quite sure they can give you some excellent advice. You might even post about your quest for garden soil, they may know of more options. I think one is in Dutchess, and another Rockland, but one might even be Westchester.

I think the soil-cost issue is partially due to the county where Sam lives. Some pockets of that county have some of the wealthiest people in the world. It's not, on the whole, of the most 'affordable' places in the world to live. The cost of living is quite high in Westchester. It's also possible that another factor of cost is that perhaps that special soil has already been tested for nutrients and pH.

I've never heard of it being a problem, but even with the potential for some deer droppings, turning that native soil is your best move. Scrape off the top layer of grass (and with it, any fresh manure - although, it's doubtfully a problem) and turn/till that native soil. You'll get the benefit of the topsoil that's there, and later, after that grass (which you'll put in a covered pile - or an old garbage can - in an out of the way place until after summer is done) dies back, and the compost in your bed shrinks away, you'll add it back. Since the native soil won't fill the raised bed, it will give you a good base for whatever bulk soil you choose to add to finish the bed. Mix it all together and check the texture. As mentioned above, you may still want to add some compost (or composted manure.)

ETA: If you opt for the soil test, you don't need to wait for it to come back before you plant. You can top-, or side-dress later.

I'm not sure there is much justification for that high a soil cost just based on location. I also live in a very high COL area and this is also home to a large number of exceedingly wealthy people (Gates, Bezos, Howard Schultz, Costco founder Sinegal, etc.). And this is also a very active gardening community. But there is no way in he!! that anyone with a whit of intelligence regardless of how much money they had would pay $250 a yard for raised bed soil!! That is just a preposterous scenario!!

Oh... lol... I didn't say it was justified. I only said that it's a very well-to-do area where many people have the money for lots of bells and whistles. Many wouldn't even question the bill that was given to them by the people they hired to set up the garden. My first summer job was laying sod in the Bergen County, N.J., and the Westchester County, NY areas. The farm was in Florida, NY... home of the famous black dirt onion farms in and around Pine Island, NY. We worked on homes where there was no question of price... just quality work and product. In fact, one of the problems of that area is that the people who do lower wage jobs have to commute because they can't afford to live there. Even the county I'm from, 1 - 2 counties away (depending on what route you take,) is becoming unaffordable to those who don't commute to the City. It's not a matter of justification, it's what the market will bear for that product. If it didn't sell, they wouldn't carry it lol.

The website indicates it is a custom blend, so made to order. I'd just have to wonder how many suckers actually do order it............:-))

btw, a Google search turned up a number of bulk soil suppliers in that area, so that is not the only choice available!!

This expensive soil is analogous to fancy tea bags in a fancy box wrapped in pretty ribbons in a fancy boutique store. Probably good tea but so is the stuff from the grocery. Yet, people buy both, which is why the boutique is still in business. If all you care about is what's in your cup, you don't need to shop at the boutique.

Having said that, I would check the texture and appearance of any soil I was going to buy. Actually feel it, find some that's damp and squeeze it in your hand and see if it clumps hard, loose or not at all. How much organic matter is in it? Is there trash, rocks, big clods, that sort of thing.

The other thing to consider is that paying top dollar doesn't mean best quality. I live just north of you in the HRV. I had a landscape guy put in some stonework - retaining walls, fire pit, etc. he wasn't cheap but was recommended as doing great work (which for the stonework he did - he's a mason by trade who bought a landscape biz). Well anyway he back fills one area with imported soil for a planting bed and a week later about a hundred little bindweed seedlings pop up. I was like, wtf dude? He swore up and down that that had never been a problem before, etc... More likely most of his clients wouldn't recognize the issue. I'm not sure he even knew what bindweed was.

I dont like importing material onto my property in general. Too many potential problems. When I have to, I ask a lot of questions. It becomes obvious pretty quickly that a lot of "professionals" aren't really up to speed on some important issues

YES, bindweed, oriental bittersweet, or other invasive weeds can be a problem. Esp. when getting things from tree trimmers or town/county mulch, compost, etc.

Caveat Emptor - Esp. on FREE stuff.

Sam a little off topic here, but I would spend money on laying “gopher wire” or “hardware cloth” under the beds before you fill them with the soil mix. It’s a bit of an investment in time and money, but well worth it. Rabbits, gophers, voles, etc. will find your cost delicious, ripe veggies. It’s just an easier, long term way to keep them from burrowing.

Thank you for reminding me of the rabbits. There are two (for now) rabbits in my yard. First time seeing them, will need to find a way to relocate them.

Silly question, but is hardware cloth/wire ok to keep in the soil long term? It won’t rust or leech?

I wouldn't worry too much about putting wire under the beds in your area. In Upstate NY, you're definitely going to want a fence that keeps animals out. The garden-pest animals in that area of the country are deer, rabbits, woodchucks, and the occasional raccoon (opossums and skunks too, but these aren't too bad in a raised bed garden.) The rabbits and woodchucks will burrow under a fence (skunks and opossums too,) but they're not known for tunneling under a garden bed. Moles can be an issue, but again, they don't usually tunnel deep under a raised garden bed. The deer will jump over a fence, but only if they have a landing area. The trick with the fence is to either bury the bottom 6" - 12" under the ground, or... just make it into an L-shape - where you put about 1' - 16" flat on the ground, and then 90 degrees up. Any of the burrowing animals will encounter the fence with their claws and give up quickly. The trick for the deer is to not give the deer a landing zone, make it very high, or put 2 fences close enough together to mess up their depth perception - again, they won't see a safe way to jump (the first 'fence' can be just one or 2 wires that they would have to go over. If it's close, but not too close to the inner fence, they won't do 2 jumps.) Remember, there's usually other food around. You can't get rid of them, you're deterring. For raccoons and climbing woodchucks: leave the top 16" of the fence loose. As they climb, they will grab the loose area, it will sway back on them, and down they go (make sure it's very secure below the loose zone.)

Or... think electric. An electric wire along the bottom 6", and the top, will keep them well away.

And relocating is fine to my sensibilities, but it won't solve the problem. More will show up after those are removed.

For the occasional rabbit, I just put some chicken wire around the bed. I've even used one foot high chicken wire to keep the little ones out of my tasty little sprouts in early spring. Once the plants get going and there's a lot of stuff to eat in the area, they seem to leave stuff alone anyway. For individual plants, you can make little cylindrical cages out of short pieces of fencing and set them over the plants. I wouldn't bother trying to catch and relocate unless it develops into a serious problem with heavy losses. Mainly because if you remove a critter, another one will move in and take its place. Better to coexist with them.

Sam hardware cloth / gopher wire should be galvanized steel so no worries about it leeching or rusting.

You’re so lucky if critters don’t burrow in your area. They sure do here! Raised beds without hardware cloth in my area of CA is just asking for trouble and inviting the critters over for a buffet.