Without reading all this ....the biggest flaw I see is that the pantry should be IN the kitchen ...not through the dining area and across from the bathroom....also island should be smaller for this size and shape kitchen...unless there is more that does not show in drawing...

The current design you have has been well thought out, leave it alone other than bringing the cabinet above the fridge forward to be front flush. It's time to focus on the materials and other decorative elements that will pull it all together.

Thank you everyone for your comments. I am checking to make sure the cabinet over the fridge is deeper (they said yes) and I may slide the island down 15" away from the fridge and take off the last stool on the end. We've started demo and the space feels much bigger without all the extra walls - I'll post a photo update when we are done or closer to be done (that will be several weeks). Happy holidays.

looking forward to seeing the reveal!

If it's possible, I would recommend making the wall between the refrigerator and the family room longer, so that you can't see the doors of the fridge. It's probably a matter of 6".

Nancy, that would affect the ability to open the doors all the way to remove fridge drawers.

Some input from my experience - Have you seen the cabinets beneath retractable downdrafts in real life? If not, please do check them out! Our downdraft is fairly new and I was VERY surprised by how much cabinet space it takes up below the surface. (Esp if it has its own blower unit.) Like you, I had originally planned to store my pots and pans in that area beneath our cooktop, but once the downdraft was installed, I found I could only fit 1-2 pots and some cutting boards in there- so pretty much very little storage. I also like what others have said about omitting 1 or all 4 barstools in favor of more storage on the backside or left side. The layout seems a little tight on storage and walking so far to the pantry may get cumbersome as opposed to just walking to the back side of the island. We also have a large breakfast table in close proximity to our island, similar to this layout. The comfy chairs at the table make that the preferred sitting spot vs. the backless counter stools at the island. Also, just to add to previous comments, we have a 42” walkway between our sink and cooktop, in a very similar position to what you have here and it works fine for our 2 cook kitchen.

Yellowbird- we have organic white quartz countertops, the island is one slab but the other two have seams. They’re subtle, but not completely invisible, however you don’t really notice them. I’m really really happy with the quartz - no sealing and you don’t have the staining problems that granite or marble can have.

An island that big will be very difficult to clean! You won’t be able to reach across it with out using a mop! And having the range there means constant cleaning.

Cleaning this island is no more difficult than any other typical island. It's only 39" in depth and fully accessible from all 4 sides.

It looks like you’ve thought about what will go in the allotted spaces, but have you accounted for everything in your current kitchen? As is often suggested here, I’ve found it very useful to take stock of everything in my kitchen and create a space for it during the design process. Hopefully, this will result in the clutter-free kitchen of DH’s dreams! Look forward to seeing your finished kitchen :)

Happy Thanksgiving - as you can imagine, we did not have lunch / dinner here (we do have a working oven and fridge, but no flooring or many walls, or running water downstairs - at home family dinner was too much for me).

Elena J - I've been double checking with the cabinet company to make sure the downdraft fits - that is why I made the island deeper - it should accommodate the exhaust pipework and the drawers behind the drawers - but I want to check on if we will really get a full 12" x 36" cabinet behind that - I'm less sure of that. We plan to put the blower in the basement right below - so that helps. And I am rethinking the end stool - as you said we have seating right next to the island so the end stool is seeming less important.

Kirsten - I did a pass at mapping out all the items to new locations - my weak spot is where to put actual food items (bread, cereal, etc.) so we added the 12" x 36" cabinets 'on the backside' of the island (and the cabinet on the wall which I am holding off on) - but I am not 100% sure both cabinets will be full 12" depth (see above) - but I sent the downdraft info to the cabinet person last week to check. With the big pantry I should cover food and appliances and dishes I don't use everyday.

This is going to be a huge change for us - which is why I'm excited but nervous. We've had a 9' x 13' kitchen (part of which was a space to walk through from one room to another) for a decade and I had about 4-5' of real usable counter space (that didn't have say the toaster on it) - so I did ask for a big island. The pantry location is not ideal in my opinion but given the layout there didn't seem another place to put it (and we had a closet in that area before - but will be a much better use of space).

I am guilty of not reading all the comments... did anyone discuss the seam you will have in that island? Once you get to those larger dimensions, the slabs are usually not big enough...

Good luck

The island seam will be dependent upon the chosen material and how good the fabricator is.

Seam in island, find it?

Another item to consider--what about sliding French doors rather than in-swinging? They take up less room and are very attractive.

"The current design you have has been well thought out..."

"It looks like you’ve thought about what will go in the allotted spaces..."

Seriously? No, and No.

Here's the scenario: You're standing in front of the sink and emptying the dishwasher. Now look at the layout. You have to walk around the open D/W door to put the glasses away (or down to the fridge); the plates and bowls are on the other side, behind you; the casseroles are behind you and over the stove; and the silverware is...next to the fridge!!!

What kind of sense does any of that make?

Casseroles are never used at the stove; they should be near a prep area. All the dining stuff should be together--and it should be near the table, where it will be used, not a mile away next to the fridge.

And spices--never, ever near heat.

Tatts - It’s not your kitchen and you don’t have to agree with it, but don’t insult the OP - or those commenting - by insinuating it wasn’t thought out. Can there be improvements? Perhaps. Can your comment be phrased more helpfully? Clearly yes. While I wouldn’t put spices or oils next to a range, if it’s a cooktop, the heat is less of a concern. Delivery makes a difference, FYI.

Wow I am impressed how much people are reading the plans. Here is a slightly updated version. We ended up going with two doors that open to the deck (my bet is we will only use one door, but I thought someone in the future may like two doors and ultimately it will be about the wall of windows- the front room is so dark - this will make a big difference).

I don't think we'll put dishes on the backside of the island - I really expect that to all be food items. I've also been paring down my kitchen gadgets and pans, etc. - I do like to cook, but I find I tend to use several pots and pans on an everyday level and the others on occasion. This layout still lists the mini pantry in the kitchen but I'm not doing that - I think it will be impact walking through that area and I can add it later if we don't have room for food items (which was the purpose).

Also regarding the seam comments - it is a good point and I was concerned about that until I saw the kitchen of a friend who is using the same cabinet dealer (and builder) - our kitchens are a bit similar in dimensions. At her house I did see the seam, but really I was looking for it. I think I won't notice it (or see it much) if I'm not looking.

Tatts - Imagine this scenario: Those who find a million faults in this design post a new design that keeps the existing walls and openings intact but fully addresses all the faults they feel are so traumatic. You do realize that if one is standing at the sink that every primary storage cabinet and appliance is no more than 6 feet away, that's only 3-4 steps..

It does seem a little short on cabinets for a kitchen this size.....but a nice big walk-in pantry...and some serious planning so all the daily needed items are in the cooking area...should make this work perfectly....with the added option of more storage on that little empty wall if you find you want more storage....I found in my kitchen that a very shallow cabinet with lots of narrow shelves was the most convenient for dry cereals ...canned food ...spices ...condiments ...baking goods...dog food...etc. is the coolest handiest thing in my kitchen....

I have Asian accents throughout my house so I had an artist paint the doors like a Japanese screen....not for everyone .....but since we have a totally open floor plan this adds to the decor and disguises the big bunch of plain doors perfectly

Diana Bier: Fine for you; you have limitations that you have to work with. But that is NOT the case here; it's just a bad design that can be fixed in the design stage.

Just because you have to live with a less-than-ideal layout doesn't mean that everybody shouldn't strive for the best layout possible.

Nobody looked at that kitchen with a critical eye toward usability. And if this forum--any forum--isn't a place to turn for best-practices advice, then what is the point of it?

I think it is a nice plan, but I don't think that there is enough space between the island and the sink wall.

And I think sliders would be better in the space, they take up less floor space.

It's interesting that 2 professional kitchen design firms have thought that the design is just fine.

Yeah. I thought it was interesting too, but not in a good way.

Well its an inherent design issue that the dining room is a huge chunk out of what should be the kitchen, which has to do with the stairs I guess. Most people would want more kitchen and less dining and if the stairs and doors are driving that I would rethink.

There are no significant issues here within the context of the overall floor plan. It's apparent that the primary objective of the OP is to create a more open concept by increasing the openings of the living and family rooms and to create a greater connection with the exterior via the garden doors and larger kitchen window, In doing so this inevitably reduces the number of available wall surfaces for the placement of cabinetry and appliances, that's a reality all will face should they desire a more open concept style.

In the context of a remodel, which I believe this is, there will always be inherent limitations such as budget or structural that will define what one can ultimately do, you never have a blank canvas. As such, one must establish their priorities, am I going to sacrifice a great view to the deck and landscaping just to get one more upper cabinet a bit more closer to the sink/dishwasher, I don't think so.

The dining area is not taking away a huge chunk out of what should be the kitchen. Even if one eliminated the table that space is not suitable for kitchen cabinetry as there are no uninterrupted walls available to place cabinetry, and you are certainly not going to want the primary access to the deck right in the middle of your kitchen work zone.

Is this style of open concept living for everyone, no that's a personal lifestyle choice, but if that is what the OP is striving for then I see this as a well balanced plan/design to achieve this. If the same effort/thought is put into the decorating aspect of this project the result will be something the OP will be deservingly proud of. Keep in mind that there is no such thing as perfect, it's all about balancing out needs and wants.

"You can't always get what you want, But if you try sometimes, Well you might find, You get what you need"

Has anyone read the fact that she has started construction?

I still stand by my comment to flip the orientation of the island and to remove the dinky pantry at the top. Good luck OP and keep us posted!

How does flipping the island make things better. The island stools will now be down the right end by the entrance to the family room. That opening is only is only 36", if people are occupying the stools they will have to shift over if someone wants pass by. Also, as the cooktop has to go into the island shifting the seating to the right will force the cook top to the left, do you really want it that close to the main eating table. Why would you want the persons sitting at the island looking at your fridge, seating on the left end provides guest with a much nicer view. Why would you want to split up your guests and isolate one group at one end of the area and another group at the opposite end, not very conducive for conversation and interaction.

That small wall area with the stair case door is a perfect place for some additional storage or decorative display, freeing up that space does nothing to facilitate flow/access.

@thinkdesignlive I see in a comment above that the OP has stated that she’s removing the pantry. However, even with the pantry removed there is still a 12” wall to frame the family room opening leaving 36” between the counter and the framed opening. Stools on that end will make it tight to get by someone seated. I think the seating should stay on the DR side.

@The Kitchen Abode well said.

@Tatts I have carefully examined the plan and read the OP’s comments. That is how I based my opinion that this kitchen will function well for them. Walking around a dishwasher to put things away is a normal occurrence in most kitchens. One could also stand on one side to unload certain items and then move to the other side to unload the remaining items. Some advice given on this forum has been valid and worth considering. I have confidence in the OP to know what they can apply to their space and what won’t work.

Well, just because people CAN walk around a dishwasher doesn't mean that you should PLAN to make them do it.

I think there are basic flaws with this kitchen layout, but the minor changes below improve the workflow greatly.

I don't see any reason to have a separate under-counter oven and a stovetop. Just use a stove. Then all the eating items can be grouped together in the end cabinets, near the table and dishwasher. The downside is that the open dishwasher door and plate drawer block the entire path.

Personally, I would put the plates, bowls, and mugs in the cabinet above the dishwasher and the silverware in the drawers next to it. That would be the most efficient for unloading (it's exactly how we have it, and there's plenty of room and no walking around).

I would not use a French door fridge there. A door that opens on the right lets you used the counter between the fridge and sink as a staging area (especially important for raw meat). A French door gets in the way of that.

To be clear, I would do a number of things differently, including putting upper cabinets and a proper hood over the stove/prep area. The cabinets behind the stove are useless.

Tatts - just a few considerations concerning your suggestions.

- using a free standing or slide in stove in an island will really limit your appliance choice and they often do not look very good in islands.

- the alternative would be to use a separate cook top with a built-in oven below. This would work but the cook top will limit the size/capacity of the oven and will also void the ability to have separate cooking and baking zones.

- given the distance between the island and the fridge a French door set-up is best as the doors only swing out say 18" versus 36" for a single door. With the French door fridge one can stand directly in front of the fridge and open the doors for full access. With a 36" swing you can't do this and the 36" door will completely block the path to the family room. French door styled appliances are far less intrusive.

Tatts - just a few more.

- the cabinets on the backside of the cook top are not useless, they are fully accessible, they don't have to be closed, maybe an open shelf unit for cook books. They also help to break-up the island lines, much more interesting. Also, if the client uses a downdraft vent system then they will need a bit more depth behind the cook top to accommodate the unit.

Exactly what we did here.

- you mention that you believe there are basic flaws in this kitchen, but instead of addressing those you make only minor changes. Why would you not address the major flaws? Serves no purpose to focus on what one considers minor if one believes there are greater fundamental issues.

I can see what you mean about the pinch point at the 3’ opening if you flip it. I could be on board w leaving it as is. I just think the little carbunkle cabinet at the top looks awkward (functions fine especially if you leave stools where they are). I’d like the visual ‘space’ that removing that cabinet offers (especially knowing there is such a large walk in pantry).

Thinkdeswignlive - completely agree that the current cabinet on the stair door wall is on the weak side, it's only 24" in width and if planned to be a tall unit it will not be properly proportioned. My understanding is that the OP is planning to hold off on this unit until everything else is done, can be revisited then. Maybe if desired to have something there it should be more of a free standing piece of furniture that is distinctly different than the kitchen cabinetry.

Just an example, furniture unit on right in hall with pics and lamp. Hopefully the OP is working with someone who has the capacity to generate renderings such as this so they can visualize exactly how everything is goin to look and work out all of those little details.

There is a comment above about not being able to fit in pots and pans under a downdraft. That is not true. I am attaching my three drawers under my cooktop. And the shallow cabinets on the other side are fully in use as well.

And I love my island cooktop. When I cook, I converse with people around me. And at parties, I serve food there and am able to keep it warm

If , as it appears, your island is actually a part of the peninsula that extends as a bar into the adjoining dining/family room, it's not too long or wide.

Do reconsider the French doors -- sliding glass patio doors would serve you better.

In this island with a cook top with a downdraft exhaust we customized the drawer boxes to maximize the storage in the cook top cabinet. The lower drawer is much deeper and can accommodate pots.

The Kitchen Abode: I didn't make new plans because the OP said that they were "...on the cusp of ordering our kitchen cabinets". It's way too late for a full redo of the layout now, but minor changes of drawers, etc. are eminently do-able.

And as to the use of a slide-in range limiting choices? It's a 30" cooktop. There are a jillion 30" slide-ins on the market, and I doubt that any family's needs are so specific that they can't find one that well meets their needs.

And the fridge doors are a matter of priority. I think that the likelihood of a traffic jam at that point is very small. The chance that anyone needs to get through that opening (when there's another of 3 feet to their right) at the same time the fridge door is open is infinitesimal. I put priority on the usability with the adjacent counter.

Tatts - I understand your position, just find that your commentary tends to come off as being overly definitive, as if there is only one way or it's all going to be a disaster. If I sense that a poster has ventured too far along then I'm not going to make statements that imply there are fundamental flaws, what's the purpose? They are beyond that point of return, it only serves to undermine their sense of enjoyment, accomplishment. and pride.

Concerning the fridge, this is a matter of personal preference but I believe if you actually analyze this you will see that an 18" French door swing to the right side is hardly a major impediment to ones ability to place an item on the right counter top, there is also a considerable section of counter on the island one can use as a landing place.

Concerning the stove, not aware of any higher end appliance manufacturer making slide-in stoves, maybe you are referring to a free standing range, if so then yes there are many to choose from but these really do not look all that good in an island.

Is it possible to move the existing cab & adjustable shelves to the left? Then put the pantry to the right? Pantry would be more handy and you end up with a wall for a piece of furniture. Just wanted to say I had an island range in my last home and I loved it. I had a tall telescope vent.

I wanted to give a project update since everyone has been so kind to share ideas and feedback. The cabinets are installed and I'm waiting for our counter tops to arrive (yes this all took far longer than planned - in part because my counter top estimates varied wildly for the same stone, brand and size so I kept getting estimates and in part because my oven was broken in shipment and I had to order a new one). I will post photos in a few weeks when the counters are installed -although the house will still not be together (sigh) but gosh, the new pantry is AMAZING, we didn't have one before and hats off to our architect who fit that in. - Thanks : )

Thank you for the update! Cannot wait to see the pictures!

I just read through this thread and was hopping to see the finished kitchen!

Yes I owe you a photo : ) the island is fantastic, we use the space for baking and perhaps a bit too much of a space for homework and projects (clutter). We had a hiccup with our cooktop and managed to get a new one installed under the wire when covid hit. I’ll clean off the homework and projects and work on a photo. I will add we put in a fisher and paykel fridge and that has also been the best! We chose it for space issues mostly but it is working out better than I expected (so far). The one comment about our kitchen remodel is the msi calacutta Clara looks great but it feels dusty all the time unless I wipe it down daily. Yes I want to keep the counters clean but I don’t necessarily wipe down every inch of counter daily.

Glad you are happy with your new kitchen.