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jennamcloughlin

Help! Weird kitchen design flaw. Need ideas.

jennamcloughlin
5 years ago
So my architect had a mishap in our kitchen, and I'm struggling to think of another way around this. Basically, the way he built the wall in the picture, the average person will never be able to reach the window or the top cabinets. However, if you push the cabinets to the wall, you have about a foot of load bearing walls on either side boxing you in. Would love some opinions here if you have any!

Comments (32)

  • PRO
    Sina Sadeddin Architectural Design
    5 years ago

    I'm confused. You mean he built the wall too deep? It's his mistake, he should fix it and do it right.

  • PRO
    User
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    It’s not at all apparent as to what the error is, or why it’s impactful.

    But, if it’s an actual impactful error by a true state registered Architect that you hired? Errors and omissions insurance covers it. A registered Interior Designer error? Same. Errors and omissions. Builder error? Architectural plans are part of your contract, and he has to create it per plan.

  • jennamcloughlin
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    The walls are already built, so I'm trying to figure out a way to configure the space without feeling boxed in. The depth from ends of the countertops to the window is ~3ft, so we will most likely need to push the cabinets against the wall. That will lead to two load bearing walls jutting out on either side.
  • PRO
    Sina Sadeddin Architectural Design
    5 years ago

    It doesn't matter if the walls are already built. If the "architect" built them using incorrect measurements it's up to him to correct it. Don't settle for a this error because it's easier. Having the walls jut out is going to cause issues when your cabinets and countertops.

  • doc5md
    5 years ago

    It looks like they planned for extra deep counter, which some people prefer. If you like the extra depth counter and want to keep that feature, you could change the window to a casement with a crank. You should be able to get an extension (that can be kept in storage) to crank it open when you want to.

  • maureen214
    5 years ago

    Let the architect fix it., or come up with alternative solutions for you....(or get a step stool and be annoyed every time you have to use itj

  • jennamcloughlin
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    @sina unfortunately, the beams that support the house sit on both of these walls. No changing now!

    @Doc, that's an idea I hadn't thought about. The windows are casement, so would just need the extension. What would you recommend about an upper cabinet on the right corner? (See picture). Could you pull it forward?
  • wiscokid
    5 years ago

    who signed off on this?

  • jpp221
    5 years ago
    1. Get a motorized window. I’m sure they exist (motorized skylights are common). 2. Get deeper upper cabs. Even if you don’t use the back third, no harm has been done. 3. Get a cheque from the architect to cover 1 and 2 plus the extra cost for a deeper counter (bigger slab may be involved). 4. Get a new architect. One who’s done math before.
  • Sammy
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    Why do you have such a deep countertop? That’s the problem!

    Also, the plan you posted in your original question doesn’t match the elevation view you just posted. Why is that?


  • PRO
    Sina Sadeddin Architectural Design
    5 years ago

    What solutions is the architect proposing? It's not up to you to fix this, stop taking responsibility for their mistakes.


    Did you sign off on this? How did it go unnoticed for this long? Walls and posts can be moved.

  • PRO
    User
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    I see the issue now. The error was in the idea of building in the standard depth refrigerator with physical walls and not cabinet panels. That lead to the whole chain of trying to make that not look wrong or too deep by matching that wall depth and creating an extra deep counter to compensate for the refrigerator depth. An experienced Kitchen designer would not have suggested that.

    Post the entire plan. Perhaps the refrigerator can be relocated and the non load bearing portions of that refrigerator closet can be removed, giving you more breathing room.

  • jennamcloughlin
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    Here's the entire kitchen plan! I'm open to all ideas. The ask is whether or not the idea of pushing the cabinet against the wall with the window will look weird, and if there are any ideas for how to fix it. Thanks in advance for all of your help!
  • PRO
    User
    5 years ago

    Pull back and post more of the adjacent areas.

  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    1. Is your "architect" licensed by the State you live in?

    2. Is this a remodeling/addition to an existing home?

  • jennamcloughlin
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    Does this work?
  • jennamcloughlin
    Original Author
    5 years ago
    And this is a complete remodel!
  • PRO
    HALLETT & Co.
    5 years ago


    Not the exact same situation, but the walls on either side of my stove come out at least 15" past the counter edge. Obviously on the right its integrated into the adjacent cabinetry but on the left it is what you would have if you got standard cabinets and installed them flush with the outside wall. I might split the difference however and build out that wall 3" or so- a little more counter space and the difference between the fridge wall and the sink would look intentional.

  • dan1888
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    What's the depth of the counter as drawn? I like deep counters of 28-30 inches. I have them and find the space very functional and valuable. Uppers set at 16.5" above the counter are easy to access. . . .. 36"+ could be more challenging.

    One option is to reduce the frig space depth to what you'll need for a counter depth model. This would lead to a more compact matching pantry without much or any walk in space. That space could have 12" shelves on the rear wall and wire bins on the doors.

  • J Green
    5 years ago

    How about building a second wall in front of the one you have in the location of the countertop. This would leave a large windowsill, perfect for some herbs, still have the casement window, but it would allow your cabinets to come forward. Another option would be to have your upper cabinets be deeper than the usual 12”, although you might not use the back portion, you might have the same amount of room in the front you could use. One other option would be to set the countertop back and I think it would look fine as a small alcove.

  • weedyacres
    5 years ago

    Can you move the fridge over so it's next to the pantry? That way you're just "boxed in" on one side of the counter, and have a better flow from fridge to sink to stove, for better prepping.

  • J Williams
    5 years ago

    I think, if I understand what she’s said, the wall is extra thick for load bearing purposes? Did you put an addition on to the house?

  • PRO
    Virgil Carter Fine Art
    5 years ago

    Well...lots of reactions and comments already.


    The situation seems clear to me. Someone had the idea of purchasing and installing a standard depth refrigerator into a cabinet line so that the fronts were all flush and aligned. And...the resulting depth for the refrigerator was mirrored in a similar depth for a built-in pantry at the other end of the counter line making things symmetrical.


    Or perhaps it was the pantry which drove the effort to create a symmetrical counter line.


    Whose idea was this and who approved it? Was it a mishap? An error? Or was it a deliberate design solution to a situation or need discussed early on in the design sequence. And only now recognized for the problematic issues?


    The exterior wall could be furred out so that the counter and cabinet depth matches the depth of the cabinets and counter. That would resolve the additional depth behind the counter, but it won't address the depth of the sill and jambs of the window.

  • A Fox
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    This will depend on your arm reach, and if you could get to a window crank that is 32-33" away, but maybe you could meet half way. Push the cabinets in 6", retain either the 6" shelf below the window or do a 30" deep counter. You could still fur out the wall as shown so the cabinet with the upper cabinet above is still a standard 24" and 12" depth. And when you are standing at the sink you won't have as much of a sense like the refrigerator wall is looming next to you.


    This doesn't seem like an architect mishap, short of maybe not considering how someone will open the window. It's more like they had something in mind and didn't properly explain what they did.

  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    5 years ago
    last modified: 5 years ago

    A lot of folks have 'garden windows' above the kitchen sink, and this looks to be about the same depth. Since you have a tall element on each side of the window, I think it compares to a bumped out sink window, and maybe some kind of soffit between the two would add to the illusion. I would take this opportunity to have custom deep drawers, if the budget allows, to provide extra storage on the sink wall. Ya know--lemons to lemonade.


    Gardenweb discussions--deeper counters

  • User
    5 years ago

    No actual professionals were involved in the harming of that space.

  • homechef59
    5 years ago

    When you try to encase a standard refrigerator in order to create a flush effect in order mimic a built-in unit, you need to provide a breathing space behind the refrigerator. What happens is the adjacent cabinets need to be pulled forward if you want a flush effect. I've done this in my own kitchen.

    The solution is to pull the base cabinets forward to create the flush effect and place a larger/deeper countertop to cover the void in the back. Additional blocking on the base cabinets wall will need to be added in order to anchor the cabinets. Also, the hutch style cabinet depth should be increased to make things look proportional. This will give you a lot more storage space in the hutch. It will probably be a custom design.

    The good news is you now know the effect of your refrigerator choice and design decision. Plus, you have additional counterspace. Your cabinet maker should be able to assist you in dealing with the details. You are just going to have to reach farther to open the window. I suggest a window design that uses a crank. They are easier to reach.


  • zmith
    5 years ago

    That's a terrible refrigerator location anyway. Maybe this will be a blessing in disguise if it forces you to move the refrigerator to where someone doesn't have to cut through the cooking zone just to get a cold beverage.

  • lyfia
    5 years ago

    In addition it seems a bit hard for you to actually prep and work in this kitchen. Not much room between the sink and the stove to prep without first going to sink and then to the island and then to the stove. A bit in-efficient from a cooking perspective. Also most like to have access to water right where they are prepping. Not sure on the size of your island, but a prep sink might help alleviate some of the prep concerns with the current layout.

  • thinkdesignlive
    5 years ago
    Depending on how far along you are with construction and what additional budget ramifications are incurred you may want to make the sliver of spaces designed as ‘cabinet’ and ‘bookshelves’ into a pantry. Then move the fridge down to the other end and eliminate the drywall enclosures all together. Fridge is farther from the living room but then out of the way of the range. Somethings gotta give.
  • Najeebah
    5 years ago

    Welll that's odd. Nothing of it is ideal, and I don't see an awful lot you can do about the cabinet depth, other than narrow them down to standard, and have the boxed-in feel.

    I suppose you are planning on drawers, particularly if you keep the cabinets wider-than-desirable?