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mobinester

Can anyone identify this tree?

mobinester
4 years ago

Just recently moved into a new home and we've been trying to identify what type of tree this is. Sorry for the bad picture, its the best I could get at the moment, but I can attach more if needed


The branches almost look like they sprout cobwebb looking smaller twigs. its hard to explain




Comments (15)

  • rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
    4 years ago

    Yep, that's a pretty bad picture. How about one or two more showing some details? And let us know a general geographical location.

  • laceyvail 6A, WV
    4 years ago

    Wild guess based on the "cobweb twigs"--Purple leafed smoke bush.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    4 years ago

    ^^ That was my thought as well.....Cotinus coggygria. The cobweb-like twigs are the old flower heads or the 'smoke'.

  • sah67 (zone 5b - NY)
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    A smokebush (C. coggygria) in bad need of some rejuvenation pruning.

    This is a particularly leggy specimen, and the shrubs in the foreground shading out the lower portion of the smokebush certainly aren't helping, although it's possible someone also attempted to "limb it up" and turn it into a tree form, even though this species really doesn't want to grow that way. Thankfully, they respond very well to hard pruning, but any new growth is going to need a lot more sun than the other shrubs are currently affording.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    4 years ago

    Just wanted to say that Cotinus are often grown in this manner - as an exposed trunk(s) "tree" - in my area. Also not sure it is in any need of any 'rejuvenation' pruning. Looks just fine to me although the leftover 'smoke' is a bit distracting but should be soon hidden by new foliage growth.

    And just a caution for any hard pruning if you want to attempt......this tends to produce a lot of elongated, whippy growth with just tufts of foliage on the ends. And eliminates any flowering or 'smoke' production :-)

  • sah67 (zone 5b - NY)
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    GG - my experience with my Cotinus has been that cutting back or removing top growth during the growing season will produce the long, whippy stems that you describe, but a hard pruning (really a coppicing) down to the ground before new growth emerges in spring will generate strong new shoots that are very lush and full of larger, more vibrant leaves. Of course, this does eliminate the smoke/flowers for a few seasons as you describe.

    I've also never seen Cotinus pruned to be intentionally leggy here in the northeast (except for the rare C. obovatus specimen that grows that way naturally), so maybe it's just a regional preference!

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    4 years ago

    sah, they are usually not pruned or trimmed in that manner. That's the way they grow here naturally. Very few are branched all the way to the ground. So I doubt it is a regional preference but more a response to a very benign climate that produces large and fast growth and how the plants are grown and presented at the nursery, typically with a clear stem/'trunk' before any branching. YMMV

  • sah67 (zone 5b - NY)
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    GG - interesting! Here's a grouping of 'Grace' at a local botanic garden showing the growth habit that is typical for most of the Cotinus planted around here. These had just been coppiced the previous winter, so there's no "smoke", but almost all the specimens around here that are left unpruned and "smoking" still have foliage down to the ground. You never see the trunk or main stem except in winter when they're bare.


  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    4 years ago

    its actually a flowering shrub.. pruned into a tree shape ...


    you would research shrub pruning if you wanted to renovate it ...


    they can get VERY large ... the green one more than the purple one ... and most likely.. the prior owner tried to keep it in check by pruning it this way ...


    here are some examples of its potential .. if you flip to the web side.. the first link looks interesting: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=purple+smoke+shrub&t=ffcm&iax=images&ia=images


    ken


    ps: note that some of the pix indicate that it could swallow the whole fence corner.. if not properly beaten back every once in awhile ...

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Grace is a hybrid, not a species of Cotinus coggygria, so growth habit is a bit different. And yes, It is often fully branched to the ground. And the one in your photo is also displaying that long whippy growth with intermittently bare stems........ :-)

    ETA: if you look at ken's link, you will see more examples showing a bare base/clear trunk, than those that do not. And they are not necessarily trained or pruned that way. That is a very typical growth habit.

  • sah67 (zone 5b - NY)
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Ken - it's not as simple as "the green one" vs. "the purple one." There are many different cultivars of C. coggyria, with foliage color all over the spectrum, including dark purple, medium green, pale blue-green, and bright chartreuse/yellow. There are very compact-growing purple-leaved forms, and there are very large-growing green forms. And that doesn't even include the southern U.S. native, C. obovatus, which grows naturally as a tree, and in optimal conditions can reach 30 feet tall, or the hybrids between C. obovatus and C. coggygria like 'Grace' and 'Flame'.


    GG - Yes, 'Grace' is going to grow a little differently than a straight C. coggygria like OP's plant, but most of the examples of purple-leafed C. coggygria I see around here, like 'Royal Purple' and 'Velvet Cloak' grow in a very similar fashion. Here's an example (not my own photo), showing what 90% of the C. coggygria look like around here:


  • Sara Malone Zone 9b
    4 years ago

    One of 'Grace's' parents is C. obovatus. It's a huge tree. 'Grace' has a growth habit all her own...I'm just about done with her. Even with my large garden I find her almost impossible to deal with.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    4 years ago

    sah, we might just have to leave it to allow for regional differences :-) Since the OP's Cotinus is already in a tree-like form, I see no reason to alter that. And 'hard pruning' something that large and well-established could very well be counterproductive.

    Yes, Grace is a unique individual :-) She gets massive here!! 20' x 20' or larger is not uncommon. If it wasn't for that stunning fall color, she could be considered a bit of a thug, hogging too much garden space..........

    btw, 'Flame is just another cultivar of C. coggygria

  • sah67 (zone 5b - NY)
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    GG - From an archived issue of the Arnold Arboretum magazine:

    "FLAME’ (C. coggygria x C. obovatus) is a selection from Hillier’s Nursery in England. Originally sold as C. obovatus, it is now recognized as a hybrid. It is larger than C. coggygria, reaching the more tree-like proportions of C. obovatus, and its foliage is intermediate in size and character between those of the parents. Inflorescences are showy and pink, but it was for its dramatic scarlet-to-orange fall foliage that ’Flame’ was selected."

    http://bigtime.arboretum.harvard.edu/pdf/articles/1994-54-2-considering-cotinus.pdf

    The Oregon State horticulture dept. also lists 'Flame' as a hybrid: https://landscapeplants.oregonstate.edu/plants/cotinus-coggygria

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    4 years ago

    Ken - it's not as simple as "the green one" vs. "the purple one."


    ==>>> in variegated plants... the all green one.. is usually the most vigorous.. because it has the most usable chlorophyll .... [im not talking about dwarf culitvars now]


    in general .. not limited to smokebush .... any amount of white in the leave.. and it usually has a lower annual growth rate ... ergo.. over ten years.. it ends up a smaller plant than the green one ...


    blue plants.. have a waxy coating over the green.. that makes them appear blue ... and again.. interrupts the usage of sunlight.. ergo.. they are usually smaller.. over that given decade ...


    and purple.. well thats just wrong... lol ... and i dont seem to recall it is green under the purple ... but regardless.. not being green.. its has the slower growth rate.. over the given time ...


    sooo.. the rest of my sentence implied ... that a green one would have greater potential over the years ... and i also noted its kind of jammed in that fence corner.. and lucky its the purple one ... since it will stay smaller over the given time span ...


    btw: if i didnt say it above.. i figure the prior owner pruned it to tree form ... because it was taking up to much floor space .... and that is just fine ... whoever owns the pruners and the plant rules ....


    ken

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