You may not share my feelings, but David Austin Roses are idiots. And boy, do I agree with Bp above. I have four Evelyns and one lousy Olivia, which I'm thinking of digging up. Long live Jude the Obscure. Diane

I saw that DA posted this. I asked them why! It seemed so bizarre to me that some of the absolute favourites were going to be retired. It made no sense to me, I thought “why not retire the ones that are not as popular?” That seems more logical to do IMO. Anyways, they stated that they do this in order to grow new varieties. I have been waiting to find AD for so long since mine died a few years ago. So sad

Diane, is that Jude ? Holy moly what a killer rose. Wow!

Hmm...I was thinking of “retiring” my Abe due to poor performance, but maybe I will keep him. Maybe I should try one more time with Jude, grafted, although I’ve tried own root twice with very poor results.

...oops, nope, sold out. Oh well.

Drat this forum! Now Im thinking I NEED to buy Jude & Evelyn...even though I have nO ROOM for more roses!

so since Evelyn was brought up....did they discontinue it or just talk of discontinuing? I've been meaning to buy this rose for 2 years now and I can never find it online. I did see one of our local nurseries carried it beginning of last spring but I didn't jump on the change to buy it so the hunt continues (won't make that mistake this year). I have sentiment reasons for growing it so any insight would be welcome.

This all is really testing my self discipline.

Is Evelyn not available anywhere? I have looked high and low online for her and haven't been able to find.

@Ashley Smith zone 5a she's quite elusive. I know Raft Island Roses had them listed at one point, but I'm not sure if they're still going to or not. Freedom Gardens can do custom propagation, but I think it takes about 2 years.

The Evelyn debate--E gone or not--has been going on for years on this forum. David Austin doesn't seem to know what to do about Evelyn.

I think Jude is such a unique rose--no other rose looks quite like it--that DA will never replicate its look in one of their so called "improved" roses. What are they thinking? Diane

@Diane Brakefield I agree. I think the shepherdess might look somewhat close but I almost never hear people speak favorably of it. JtO seems to be a favorite among those who grow it.

Aaron, I'll check the Shepherdess out. Jude does have some drawbacks. It's a slow starter, compared to Evelyn or Boscobel and many others who charge into high gear when first planted here, growing fast and blooming quickly. And the repeat could be better. In your zone 5, you might have to winter protect. Jude is probably my most cold sensitive Austin. But normally, our winters are not bad, and Jude does fine. In 2017, we had an abnormally cold winter, and for the first time, Jude had a lot of dieback--lots--but came back OK. It was the only Austin to react that way to the cold that year. This year we just had a lot of snow, but temps aren't particularly bad. It's warmer here than Texas and Oklahoma, for sure. Diane

David Austin Roses has produced some nice roses ,but the crass commercialism of the company's attitude is a real turn-off for me at least.

@bart bart especially now that Kordes, Meilland, Delbard, and others are producing roses that are comparably (if not more) beautiful and consistent. Can you imagine if Eden or Peace got 'retired'?

I completely agree with aaron and bart above, very off-putting.

Speaking about "Retired" David Austin roses. I'm willing to bet they will all resurface buy autumn or next spring. It's just that they won't be sold by David Austin.

David Austin US explained why they would retire AD, Jude, Evelyn, pat austin.. Pls check the youtube video(around 27:30)

https://youtu.be/Io1u_4HD-KM

What fools these mortals be. Diane

Wonderful talk. Thank you for sharing.

So Jude is gone because they can't produce enough sellable material to justify the space it takes up in the growing fields. Well I'm glad I ordered it right before it sold out and got retired. At least now I know to be extra careful about where I put it since it apparently does not move well.

Abe is perhaps his best rose, albeit blackspot prone. GT is a classic, the best yellow rose. Glad I already have both.

It was remarkable how many people gasped and sounded indignant over Evelyn's retirement. I don't blame them--really hoping mine makes it as it travels through the snow this week!

Yes, even though Evelyn is BS prone, does not make an attractive shrub, and is not very hardy, I wouldn’t want to be without her,

I enjoyed the presentation but didn’t agree when PAoK was touted as being very disease resistant but Munstead Wood was BS prone. It may be a regional thing but PAoK was far more disease prone for me than MW.

Evelyn is irreplaceable as well as Jude. Diane

As beautiful as Evelyn's flowers are, she is definitely not without problems. I have three, and it's about 2 too many. Sure the flowers are gorgeous, the fragrance is lovely and they last well as a cut flower. But she really is not an attractive bush at all. She might be better as a climber as she makes long scraggly canes, and in the back against a wall, her growth habits can be overlooked by the plants in front. Honestly, I can see why DA would "retire" her for plants that are more compact and floriferous that would be a better plant in a garden bed. If something comes along that has the qualities of the flowers with a better growth habit and productivity, as much as I love the flowers of Evelyn, I'd replace at least two of mine. Oh, and did I mention her susceptibility to thrips? At least I assume that's what is doing this. Even the first blooms of the season, come out like this:

If I didn't spray, I wouldn't have any blooms worth looking at, at all, and I would have removed her long ago. But with spraying...sigh:

Noseo, I agree with your evaluation of Evelyn (I have four), but the beauty of the blooms is enough for me. Mine have an OK growth habit that could be better, especialy the big E in back where the wind is bad, and the long canes scrape together and shred the blooms. She could rebloom better, and she does get thrips. I don't spray, just put out some granular, scratched in insecticide around the plant in spring, and that's it for the season. I do this for several other roses that are thrips' victims, but I find that The (deep dark) Prince gets the worst thrips in my garden. Diane

Noseo, your E's thrips are much worse than mine. Ick. Yes, that is thrips. Diane

The blooms of Evelyn are the reason for me keeping her all these years. There were three roses that I knew I had to have when I started my rose garden: Abe, Evelyn, and Madame Isaac Pereire. MIP was miserable after 3 or 4 tries (I've lost count), and I stopped trying. Abe and Evelyn have their issues, but they still have my heart. I feel the need for a little Evelyn love-fest. You've probably seen some of these photos before.

More Evelyn...

This is Austin's way of forcing you to buy the newer varieties with a higher royalty rate. It's called greed.

It is pure commercial crass-ism. Look up EVELYN at HelpMeFind Roses. The patent is expiring soon so they want to remove it completely from the market so nobody will propagate it.

I used to be insanely in love with the English Roses but over the years have had some real problems with this "class". First, I dislike the "myrrh" fragrance, and they are producing more and more roses with it. Second, too many produce blooms that shatter quickly ala HERITAGE, which makes the roses of little use in a vase. Third, the weak stems! Again, not good as cut flowers and not good in the garden either because you can't see the downward facing blooms.

EVELYN doesn't have these problems. The fragrance is one of the BEST in the entire group. Flowers LAST and the stems are stronger. And lets be real, yes she can be a frustrating primadonna (flowers do fade, etc.), but the large bloom size and old garden rose flower form doesn't get any better. Plus, she has reasonable winter hardiness and the growth habit isn't all that bad.

And for the record, BATHSHEBA and PORT SUNLIGHT aren't any better. Actually inferior IMHO.

I was just reading in Right Rose, Right Place that Evelyn's cold hardiness isn't assured. Can anyone vouch for that? DA listed it as 5b hardy which is why I bought it, but now am worried.

Funny, but DA’s business practices don’t bother me at all. I don’t really like the myrrh fragrance though. Or rather it’s okay, just not what I want in a rose. Except Glamis Castle and WOH, which smell like naphthalene to me, which is revolting. I do love the nodding or “weak neck” blooms. Just like hellebores! I find that the backs of the blooms are just as important to me as the fronts and are a big factor in choosing a rose. I’m still looking for the perfect pink rose whose petal backs are the perfect shell-like look that I love. I actively look for roses that have “grace.” So “no” for Grande Dame, which has stark upright stems and a weak neck which reminds me of a hangman’s result, but “YES” for Eden whose flowers hang like bells. Maybe I’m just weird.

Diane, your photos are totally killer!

Thanks, Noseo, and so are yours. Are you a professional Nose, by any chance? I am floored that you pick up the naphthalene scent. I'm not even sure about what myrrh smells like. Things either smell good or bad to me, though I'm better picking out certain bad scents. And I so wanted to work for a French perfume factory--hah. Diane

in response to Aaron, I have only been able to pull Evelyn through in zone 5 by putting her on the south side of my house in my protected zone 6 pocket. Otherwise she doesn't return from the winters, and most Austins do pretty well for me here.

Cynthia

@noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque) I actually think the blooms that are perfectly upright are kind of weird looking. I prefer a little nod.

I also like the nodding roses, they just have a softer look, makes me want to cup them in my hands and smell them.

Okay, I just have to stick up for Bathsheba. I just love her. She is healthier than Evelyn here. Her growth habit is like Teasing Georgia's who is also very healthy here. Evelyn, who is no doubt beautiful, my 3 are

Semi-Divas here lol.

Bathsheba

Re: Evelyn

I was able to get 2 on multiflora last year from allmythyme

I believe she was selling a small variety of bare root roses.

I've grown EVELYN in USDA zone 6. She handled the winters just fine. Can't comment about zone 5. As for nodding, I knew that comment was going to rile up some of the old rosarians. That is why I wrote it. Some years back this opinion was being pushed a lot on the rose forums. My way of pointing out that some do not appreciate this "trait". And for me, nodding blooms don't look graceful. Large rose shrubs with arching growth habits look graceful to my eye. Case in point is LOUISE ODIER. Big, beautiful arching shrub with strong stems.

Diane - no, I'm not a professional nose, I'm just hyperosmic, which is both a blessing and a curse. I was at my first wine tasting and the sommelier gave us some wines to compare. He asked us what we smelled and when he got to me I described what I smelled. He stopped, frowned, took a sniff himself and said "you smell all that?" Then he went on to describe what I was smelling and why. I didn't have the language of fragrance, I just compared it to what I knew. So sometimes a blessing. Sometimes a curse, like when I was at a talk, and the guy next to me must have had a lovely Italian dinner, with some rather aged cheese on his pasta with red sauce and some not-so-refined wine, and he must have had a problem with reflux because I could smell the acid from his stomach. My friends sitting with me said they didn't smell anything. I, too wanted to work for a perfumery at one time, but hard to get a job and most perfumes are too much for me. No, I've been a physician for the last 28 years, and sometimes it comes in handy (when I walk in a room I can smell the difference in different types of infections, and I can smell when someone's diabetes is out of control). But you can imagine when it is a detriment. I have maybe a hundred fragrance samples in my fragrance cabinet, and I can really only tolerate a few for any duration, but they are fun to sniff once in a while. I've sniffed a number of Austin roses described as "myrrh" and they can be quite different from each other to my nose, so I just assume that when they are described as "myrrh" that they are just a nonstandard rose fragrance. I haven't smelled 'Constance Spry' yet though. Maybe some day. Patrick mentions Louise Odier, and for years I wanted to smell this one described as so lovely, but there was none to sniff. I finally found one and sniffed, and ....burning plastic. I went back several times, with different flowers open and each time it was a variation of burning plastic. Maybe it's delicious in a different climate.

Oh Patrick, you are an instigator are you?! haha! Those long arching canes are my favorites also. Have you seen an enormous Belle Portugaise climbing a house, with thousands of loosely formed flowers hanging down like pink handkerchiefs? That may change your mind. Or not. I think they are amazing.

Wow, Noseometer! I am so impressed! I myself don't have a great sense of smell, so it's really interesting and impressive to hear about you experiences. It's SO good that you can use your "super power" to help your patients!!!

Interesting, Noseometer. There is a Russian tv series about a detective with a very heightened sense of smell. He solves crimes using his nose. It's called The Sniffer. Has English subtitles and is a really well done show with a good actor in the main role.

Most perfumes are too much for me also.

Cool! I’d love to see it!

Noseometer -- I can see how your "talent" could be both blessing and curse. How wonderful for your patients that you can be helpful to them -- though that's been thwarted if you've had to do telemedicine lately! And let's pray you don't get covid and lose your sense of smell!

Apropos of nothing -- I'm really bitter that so many people in California, including my neighbor, have already got their David Austin roses or notices this week of UPS shipments, and I got nuttin' nada, bupkus (bupkiss?)!! grr...

@erasmus_gw - The Sniffer is on YouTube. I'm up to the third episode. Fun show. It's a little silly that he can smell that a guy's nicotine patch is on his right arm, but his is clearly a superpower rather than just heightened sense of smell. And he doesn't get overwhelmed by strong scents. No one is wearing too much perfume so far, and no one has pets. I'm enjoying it though. Thanks.

Noseometer, glad you're enjoying it. I thought it was a fun show, kind of slick and modern, with good special effects . It's interesting to see cultural differences and to see some of the countryside and architecture over there. Eventually you'll see that his super nose causes him some problems in his personal life.

We've enjoyed quite a few Russian tv shows.

Thank you @Cynthia Nebraska z5--I'm thinking what I have is own root so I'll be extra careful with her and wrap her up like she was a newborn!