Kristine: Your Azalea is the prettiest flower in this forum. She's SO CUTE !!

Yes, you do, Kristine, and she's the best one of all. Diane

@Diane Brakefield I meant to add this before but got distracted, does Idaho not have pretty natives in the wetter areas of the state? I don't always think of natives as plants only in my absolute immediate area, but lots of Midwest prairie flowers (since Eastern CO is very nearly Midwest just without humidity) as well as the lovely things that grow in the wetter foothills areas that are only a short drive (30 minutes) away towards the mountains. In my irrigated yard, those Colorado foothills natives should be right at home.

Yes, Idaho does have some lovely natives in the higher elevations (not far away at all), and up north in some more prairie like areas. In spring, we even have some wildflowers bloom on the nearby hills, a lot of rudbeckia, for example. This is not the Midwest, however. I am just a few miles from the Oregon border, and of course, west of Oregon is the Pacific Ocean. I mention this because over my lifetime, this area has been lumped in with Colorado, which I do consider almost midwest. In organizations this can mean traveling hundreds of miles to reach district meetings and all kind of other stuff. We have been confused with Iowa so many times, a T shirt was created about the subject. Sometimes, it's even worse, and we are confused with Ohio. U.S. Americans are really lacking in geography knowledge of their own country. Rant over. The prettiest native that grows all over the gully is blue flax, which blooms for about a day after a rain, and waits until the next rain when it blooms again. We haven't seen it much this year. I grow a few of these plants, and on the slope it rarely blooms because of lack of rain. My gardening friend grows quite a bit of it (photo below which doesn't show it well). Plants that like good drainage and have low water requirements, etc, do well here--lavender, Russian Sage, salvia, cat mint. Diane

Thank you, Diane. I don't have to spray a lot but I spray some. The teas and Chinas I mentioned should not need spraying. I mention cemetery roses because they are tough. If I was a severe novice with roses I would want something that would just thrive. I got into roses when I heard about old, low maintenance roses and own root clinched the deal. Since then I've found that some grafted roses can be very good indeed but not all.

Azalea is a pretty name for a pretty girl. I don't hear that name much but I think it is a terrific name.

We live on the eastern side of mountains and the rain drops more on the western side, as you know with the Cascades. I sometimes feel very rain deprived. But am grateful for what we do get. We drove through northern Idaho in 1984 and I was smitten with a little town full of hills, Wallace. I think it was a silver mining town. Don't remember it being dry up there. It was near Coeur d'Alene.

@erasmus_gw I feel your pain, I am just east of the Rockies and it is dryyyyyy here. In fact read some interesting stuff once about how huge channels had to be built to bring water over because the western half of the state got plenty of rain but farmers were struggling and starving out here in the east. I live in a small farming town that is right on the edge of "livable" and "huge expanses of cattle ranches and as few people to run them as possible, also tornadoes" lol.

Diane, people think Idaho is Ohio??? Goodness gracious. @Artist-FKA-Novice Zone 7B GA I have veered way off topic, sorry. Have any of the suggestions on here inspired you at all?

Iowa is the state most often confused with Idaho, so a T shirt was printed with a big map of Idaho that had the word Iowa superimposed over it. I was in Arkansas checking out of a Walmart when the clerk asked where we were from (we had be chatting), and I said "Idaho", and she said, "Oh, I have a sister in Columbus....". Below is that photo of blue flax I mentioned. Diane

@Diane Brakefield Yes the blue flax is pretty, mine is first year so I've only seen an odd bloom here or there. Next year should be better.

@Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b) I have that book! I think I have The Undaunted Gardener, which is the book the primarily inspired my gardening here when I was so depressed with the difficulty in growing things here, and also another of Lauren Springer's book Passionate Gardening. The plants don't all work for this area, but some do, and the principles still apply. Other than my roses, my garden is pretty xeric.

I haven't found the best place for my blue flax. It wants to grow where I don't really want it to grow. But it is very pretty.

@Kristine LeGault 8a pnw,

What an adorable cutie pie! She is seriously beautiful!!

Thank you to all who provided more input, pictures and suggestions. I enjoyed reading all of your thoughts in this thread!

Nose, that's a beautiful flax plant. I wish I had some flat space to grow more of it. It's quite lovely after one of our rare rainy days when it grows scattered around the slope and across the gully. Strangely enough, Campanula rotundifolia likes it quite dry and has a huge range where it can grow. This plant is known as Blue Bells of Scotland or harebell. I've seen photos of it growing in Iceland, and Sheila grew it near Anchorage. But it also grows well here and laughs at the heat, and is known to grow in parts of California. It has a very long growing/blooming season, too. I'd love to see if it would grow in your area. Diane

Diane, Campanula rotundifolia grows wild in the mountains here. I planted it in my courtyard, thinking I'd have a courtyard of blue wildflowers. It turned out to be rather scraggly and floppy looking there (too little sun?), and so I pulled it all out. I grew back from every bit of root, stronger than ever. So it's still scraggly looking and patchy around the courtyard. I could use RoundUp, but I gave up trying to pull it out. My family visited and asked if I wanted them to help me pull the weeds out of the courtyard. Sigh. Yours look great.

I have a lot of Rose's mentioned here, julia child, br cant, clothide, Olivia etc, and I'm in a tough climate. My most profuse bloomer is Duchesse de Brabant. She just keeps on going all through summer and while saying no blackspot is not reasonable, I would probably get blackspot on me if I stood outside in our humidity, I never see any issues or she never looks bad.

@Mischievous Magpie (CO 5b),

I added to the list, so yes - some very good inspirations for future trials, even though for now, I will not be purchasing anything new.

Munstead Wood, Princess Charlene de Monaco, Mrs BR Cant, Bolero, Calypso, Clotilde...to mention a few. These are certainly names I've heard many times....so it must be something about them.

In 2022 I want to focus on increasing amount of bloom per plant (those I already have).

I am excited about using a new soil so we'll see how everything goes. :)

@erasmus_gw,

Your rose bushes are amazing and thank you for the suggestions. Love Clotilde!

Nose, I'd have never guessed that Blue Bells of Scotland grow in the mountains of New Mexico, but that stuff seems to have an incredible range. I agree it's sort of floppy and casual, and a bit aggressive, but I want it to meander around this particular flower bed where there is alyssum, snapdragons, and other stuff. It's pretty casual and not looking particular good, except for the Camp rot, which still looks fresh. The snaps hated this extra hot summer and are a mess. You'd never put up with it all. I know you are far more particular than I am just by seeing your meticulous plantings. I need you to whip some discipline into things around here. Diane

Clothide is amazing, hundreds of blooms in flushes but balls really bad for me. Every once In a few yrs i get an amazing flush, rest of the time brown balls.

Sultryjasmine is another one in the south with some great pics. Some of the teas might get too big for you, Severe, I don't know. Picking the absolute best rose might not help you too much if you just have too much shade or something is off about your soil.

@Artist-FKA-Novice Zone 7B GA - I think that we all have the same goal of getting more (and better) flowers out of our roses. Some of us have elaborate fertilizing regimens for this. some are more successful than others at it, be it from skill or climate. In any case, that is part of the fun!

@Diane Brakefield - my garden is looking pretty casual this autumn. I’m not deadheading the roses to try to get them to go dormant earlier. last year i had a lot of winter damage. Here is the main border. The rest of the garden is even more casual (some might say ”neglected”!). work has been keeping me very busy, especially compared to last year.

@noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)call it romantic Cottage garden style 😉

@noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque) I always prefer a more casual look in plantings, and I think your garden looks great. I never thought about not deadheading at this time to help with winter damage, how clever of you.

I think it looks wonderful, nose, and I'll bet you're busy right now. Your garden looks so much like the recent photos my gardening friend sent me from her enormous garden. (I deleted them like an idiot). In fact, you'd be hard pressed to guess which garden is in southern Idaho, and which is in New Mexico. Our climates are so much alike, though I think your winters are a little bit milder and start later because we are in a more northerly latitude. Still, the similarities are amazing. And yours, as I said looks great, as does my friend's. Mine is not so good. Diane

@Diane Brakefield I wonder about Nose's winters? I was very surprised once when looking up average temps in Albuquerque, much colder than I expected (I was watching Breaking Bad with my DH and was complaining about how there's always people wearing hats and jackets in the show, surely it was almost never cold enough for that? So I had to look it up.) I think a lot of it has to do with elevation.

That's it, Magpie. Elevation. There are a lot of factors that determine the cold hardiness zone, and elevation is one. Bodies of water (the lake effect) can keep things milder, too. On the other hand, being at the top of a hill where I live seems to delay first frosts, since frost will settle in the lowest spots. Boise has milder winter temps than the next county over, though Boise's elevation is slightly higher than that county's. I asked my farming step dad about that years ago, and he simply said, "heat rises". That sort of contradicts the elevation thing about Albuquerque. This will be good for you to research. Also, latitude effects the length of summers and strength of the sun, and the length of a summer day. Longer days, farther north; but sun's strength diminishes fast in northern latitudes, and winter comes earlier and stays longer; days are shorter. The last day for photosynthesis to take place here is around Nov 7; after that the sun is too weak. The extreme example is northern Alaska and their short season of 23 hour days and giant veggies, followed by endless nights. England may have a mildish climate, though they are so far north they practically touch Norway (Shetland Islands), but they're surrounded by water and the right water currents. Enough of this. Climate fascinates me. Diane

Magpie, We can get snow here from November through March/April. The first frost date in my part of town is October 16 and the last frost date is May 8. Although summer highs are usually in the 90's, and winter highs are in the 40's, there are usually at least a few nights that are in the single digits. Magpie, yes, it has to do with the elevation. My part of town is at about 6,500 feet in elevation, and it is definitely cooler here than the parts of the city where Breaking Bad was filmed, usually by about 5-10 degrees.

These graphs don't describe the temperature fluctuations that the high altitude produces, but you probably have an idea, being in Colorado.

My sister once came to visit in November, and her friends who flew in separately to meet her here assumed that here in the desert southwest, it would be warm. They came in shorts, little spaghetti strap tops and flip-flops (my sister wisely checked the forecast). The temperatures didn't get above 40 that week (with much cooler lows of course), and they spent the entire trip in the hotel spa while my sister went sight-seeing. It's not as cold by far as what you get Magpie, but colder than people expect.

@Diane Brakefield Yes heat rises, but at a certain point the air is too thin to retain that heat. That may be the difference between a small difference in height at lower elevations, and that same difference at higher elevations. Thoughts?

@noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque) That's great weather in my opinion, having lived in Phoenix, AZ before I moved here, where the heat is horrendous (120°, anyone?) and almost never lets up (95° at midnight? Geez). I haven't been through NM in a few years, but I'd like to go back again for some good birding and to enjoy a different lanscape. Not in summer, of course 😅

Magpie, it isn't heat rising at all. I think I figured it out. Boise is flat up against the mountains which form a partial bowl around it that is open at the west end. The mountains keep the heat low to the ground, sort of like LA. We get weeks of smog and stale warmish in the winter quite frequently. The air above the bowl is colder and also presses downward. We can get rid of the weeks of smog by a major weather system, blowing wind into the bowl. At the west end of the bowl, the altitude drops, but the area is farther away from the mountains and the bowl. Highs are higher in summer, but lows are lower in winter. The farther west along the valley the more pronounced the weather difference is, culminating at the Oregon border where the small town of Ontario can be the hottest in summer and the coldest in winter. I was just 22 miles west of Boise for many years, and my daughter's growing season in Boise started 1-2 weeks earlier than mine. That never ceased to annoy me.

Nose, that chart is very interesting to me. We are close in temps about 7-8 months of the year, but you are warmer in January-February and November-December. Our first killing frost is in October, but varies, and our last frost date is a few days later than yours, I believe. How close to the mountains are you? Our highs in September are not too much different, but already our lows are much lower than yours, low 50s and mid forties. In October that really steps up. Diane

In my garden Valentine blooms continuously and also profusely at times. It has drawbacks though, which are, no scent, nodding flowers on a low bush so you are often looking at the backs of the roses and blooms crisp when over 90. It does not bloom in flushes but continuously send up very short shoots with buds so the plant is always a mix of flowers in various stages. I have sandy loam, pH 7 soil with hot dry summers. Madame Joseph Schwartz also blooms continuously too in the same fashion as Valentine, but not as profusely and her blooms have light fresh lemon scent.

and here in SoCal Iceberg blooms profusely in rapid flushes. The bushes that are well cared for in people’s yards (versus the ones you see in strip malls) are absolutely fantastic with a soft wafting fragrance.

Noseometer, I love your garden and the Flax photos. I would let the Flax grow wherever it wanted to.

This is a great topic! im also on the hunt of the most profuse bloomer. here are my list:

bolero- keeps blooming no matter what. no blackspot, had a bit of powedery mildew this season

Olivia rose- another non stop blooming. very healthy rose.

rosematic pink! blew every other rose on its first year. she is so fast to rebloom that i dont even have time to deadhead and she is already putting new growth.

the Lady gardener- rebloomns in flush, love this rose. a little of blackspot end of season

TLG today, the powerd mildew is on forever rose, she did get a little blackspot right now.

@CeresMer Zone 7a NJ,

Waow. Rosemantic is one gorgeous rose I never heard of. It doesn't even have a rating on Helpmefind.

Some pictures show it as a combination of rose and orange, others as pure, baby pink.

How is it for you? Also, how big does it grow? Very beautiful!

Hi @Artist-FKA-Novice Zone 7B GA Rosematic pink was new last year from Palentine their NIRP roses? i think she is alreay 4ft, a blooming machine for sure on her first year!

@CeresMer Zone 7a NJ,

Is it pink with a touch of orange? How would you describe the colors?

She is pink going salmon sometimes. she can be quite bright if you ask me. now now, with cooler weather she is going more of a deep pink. Picture from palatine

Very nice bloom form.

@Artist-FKA-Novice Zone 7B GA have you visited the Birmingham Botanical Gardens? They have a beautiful rose garden. Im not sure if it is no-spray. You could call and ask.

Ceres, how is your Forever Rose.

So far mine is a complete dud. It is first year and could get much better or not. For now it goes in to a pot to see if it shapes up or ships out.

For me another non stop bloomer is Desdamona . The repeat times is really fast and he she is covered again

Forever rose. What a yukky rose for me. By the way, it looked like that in a rain free week. So it cant use that excuse.

Desdamona

Cinco de Mayo is known to be very healthy and bloom constantly.

Love Song too, if I remember.

Hope For Humanity is never without a dozen blooms at any given time and absolutely loaded at others. High quality blooms that last more than a week individually.

There are other roses that get a lot of blooms, but individually will only last one or two days, for example Snow Pavement. One Hope For Humanity blossom is equal to about a dozen or more Snow Pavement blossoms in my mind. How long a blossom lasts is very high on my list of desirable characteristics a rose may possess.

@Sunny Mississippi 8a,

No, I have never been. Maybe I can see some pictures...

The Cantigny discussion with photos was excellent, straw. I just went thru it now. Interesting to see how well the various flower carpets do with full sun. I had a coral one that got tallish in partial sun, like you. I’m surprised Angel Face and Singin in the Rain do well there, even in full sun. Both suffered a blackspot death here - many attempts, in fact, with Angel Face. I presume BS is a problem there.

I just now see that Diane noted the same thing about Angel Face 12 days ago.

Angel Face likes it alkaline. It was 100% healthy as own-root in my garden (but not hardy for my zone 5 winter). It was also 100% healthy as grafted-on-Dr.Huey for my neighbor (hers gave 10 times more blooms than my tiny one). Decades ago rose park had a big bed with a dozen Angel Face, all short but perfect-looking. Cantigny rose park used high phosphorus fertilizer for more branching & more blooms, resulting in phosphorus accumulation and BS fest in recent years. They got rid of the entire rose park with Covid-crisis.

That's pretty sad that the park had to go. I suppose there was no way to have workers in the park during the crisis. I'm not aware of anything that extreme here--except for a lot of people themselves and their nutty behavior. I agree that Angel Face seems to like alkaline soil, but most of my roses do. Diane

Angel Face and Young Lycidas her best and droopy friend.

Diane: I love that pic and the many ruffles on your roses. You have fantastic soil. My sister is in Caldwell, ID and she has lots of fruit trees.

Straw. how neat that you have a sister in Caldwell. That's where I grew up and graduated from high school. And later lived before Boise. I'm not surprised she has fruit trees. Not many miles from Caldwell is prime orchard country (Sunny Slope near Marsing). For years now, this area has become a greater and greater wine grape growing center with lots of wineries all around--very good wine. The valley west of Boise in Canyon County where Caldwell is, is prime agricultural country with very valuable rich soil. It's too valuable for common row crops, so many seed crops and specialty crops are grown in this area. The seed hybridizing business got going in Caldwell in the 1930s (Crookham Company), with Crookham's hybridizing the seed for the sweet corn we all eat, vastly improved over earlier eating corn. The onion seed hybridizing is big, too, as well as flower seed. So farmers like my step dad switched from potatoes (now grown elsewhere in Idaho and Eastern Washington) to seed crops and mint, which became big in the 1970s. He had his own mint still and sold mint oil to big candy companies world wide. My step dad was a big farmer south of Nampa (next to Caldwell). He developed his Dry Lake Farms on the fertile bed of a prehistoric dry lake. His farms were models of state of the art irrigation. He also began one of the early seed companies south of Nampa. And so on.....I grew up around farms, though my dad was not a farmer. I had my horse and rode constantly as a child. Now I live in the hills outside Boise where the soil is not so great. So I do a lot of adding goodies to the soil. When we move in, the ground around our house had never been broken to grow a garden or roses--it was pure desert soil....Tell me more about your sister's gardening and trees in Caldwell. Do you ever get out to Idaho? I love reading about this stuff. Diane