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xo_thekemps

Was my bermuda seed bad?

Alex Kemp
2 years ago

We planted our lawn from seed a week ago and it appears we have a turf of weeds growing. Any ideas? We bought Pennington Bermudagrass seed. We're in Buena Park, CA. It looks like coverage of weeds with some Bermuda underneath.



Comments (14)

  • Christopher CNC
    2 years ago

    Your soil obviously had a very healthy and well distributed seed bank. It looks a bit like ragweed or maybe California Poppy. You may have a crop of wild flowers growing. Not sure what that is. Someone may be able to ID it. That did not come with the Bermuda seed.

    If the plan was a Bermuda lawn, you will be needing a Plan B to get there.

    Alex Kemp thanked Christopher CNC
  • Alex Kemp
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    @Christopher CNC Thanks! Yes, it's a solid covering over the entire lawn area. I'm wondering if we should keep growing it and try to kill off the non-Bermuda once the Bermuda is tall enough to use a killer on or just kill it all and start over.

  • Alex Kemp
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    @dovetonsils Yes, we went about an inch down before planting then spread a turf builder mix and then the seeds before raking everything back in and watering.

  • Christopher CNC
    2 years ago

    Getting an ID on your weed crop Is important in deciding how to approach a solution because the difference between an annual and a perennial weed will make a difference in whether to let it grow out and mowing it to death or killing it all now and starting over.

  • kevin9408
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    This is just my observation from the 2nd picture I could magnify. I don't see any grass seedlings under the top canopy of the broad leaf weeds and has at least 2 types of weed growing below. After only one week any grass that may of germinated would be barely visible with vertical thin blades and not what you see below the higher weeds now. I believe you're looking at other weed varieties mistaken as grass and they may be grass weeds but not Bermuda.

    I'm not telling you to do what I would do and your choice, but I'd knock down everything with roundup now and not tomorrow. Any thing which hasn't emerged will not be effected by the roundup and why it's referred to as a pre-emergent herbicide. Your seed label state germination in 7 to 21 days, (some also say 10 to 14 days) so you have time to save what you've already planted.

    If you elect to start over you will have the same problem if you do it the same way, there is nothing wrong with your seed, just the way you did it. If you start over do as the INSTRUCTIONS say and till 4" to 6" deep, not an inch and reseed right away without delay. Bermuda isn't very good at crowding out weeds so if you let it go you will have a struggle creating a stand of Bermuda.

    Alex Kemp thanked kevin9408
  • Alex Kemp
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    I will most likely raze it all and start again with a tiller, but there's definitely Bermuda coming in very patchy. I'd like to ID the weed first and will head to Armstrong to see if they know. Here's some more photos and close-up of the seed husk. I mean this is coming in THICK I can almost mow it lol




  • Chessie
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    https://www.sciencephoto.com/media/445044/view/common-ragweed-seedling

    It does look like ragweed to me.

    And the seedling photo in the Dave's Garden link above also looks the same. Ragweed changes appearance quite a bit after the seedling stage.

    OP that is one helluva lot of weeds. I would terminate that stuff now. Make sure it is completely gone before you seed.

    Alex Kemp thanked Chessie
  • Alex Kemp
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    @Chessie You're right. hahaha what a pain. Just bought the house so this is fun. So fun.

  • Christopher CNC
    2 years ago

    Do Not Till The Soil, if you have no intention or need to drastically improve it. That is only going to bring more ragweed and friends seeds to the surface to repeat your first mighty fine weed crop. You need a lawn geek at this point to give you one of their recipes.

    But part of the process of seeding a new lawn is often killing off the seed bank in the top layer of soil. You grow a few weed crops and kill them a couple times before seeding the lawn.

    Alex Kemp thanked Christopher CNC
  • dchall_san_antonio
    2 years ago

    Just to repeat the general theme of the replies, which you seem to not have absorbed, DO NOT FRICKIN TILL THE SOIL. That applies for all grass seed but especially, Especially, ESPECIALLY for bermuda. You're only seeing the weeds aspect of digging or tilling right now. What you don't see is that the process of digging and tilling always results in a rolling subsurface that does not get tilled. At the surface you always level it, so you end up with a fluctuating layer of fluffy soil over top of an undulating layer of untilled soil. Immediately, as soon as the fluffy soil gets wet or walked on, it begins to settle. When it settles it settles down to match the undulating profile of the untilled soil. This means that your soil starts off bumpy and gets worse over time. And that time period before it seems to stop getting worse is three years. At that point you will have scalped your bermuda lawn a few hundred times when the mower wheels drop down into a hole created from digging or tilling. Bermuda loves to be mowed low as it takes on a horizontal growth habit when mowed lower than 1 inch. But if you don't have a perfectly level surface, it will scalp. It seems you have already made the mistake once by digging. Don't make the mistake again by rototilling.

    Another mistake you made was missing the best time of year to seed bermuda. Bermuda seed likes HOT soil for best germination. A buddy of mine in Phoenix seeded his back yard about 6 weeks ago and got pretty good germination in 3 days. 80% germination came in about a week. In Buena Park I'm thinking mid June would be the beginning of your window. At this point you could properly prep the soil and still not get 80% germination until next May or so when the soil finally warms enough.

    Here's a consideration. Given that this is a disaster, you could practice doing it right with a different grass, practice mowing the different grass all through the winter, and then do it right starting about mid May. Here's what I'm thinking:

    1. Spray your entire yard with RoundUp.
    2. Continue watering daily as you are now for another week to try and germinate all the plants in the soil.
    3. Spray with RoundUp one last time to kill everything that might have germinated from the continued watering.
    4. Rake or mow up all the dead stuff and get it out of the way.
    5. Evaluate the high and low spots you already have in the yard in preparation for leveling.
    6. Build a drag with chain link and 2x4 and rope so you can level.
    7. Buy a few bags of sand, dump them into the low spots, and drag the drag to level things out. Water the sand to settle it. Evaluate the low spots again and add more sand as needed. Repeat the evaluation, sand, water, evaluation as necessary. Three times should get you pretty level. You could use topsoil except topsoil has clods in it which lead to ruts under the drag.
    8. Plant annual ryegrass which will remain green all winter. Many bermuda grass owners do this every winter (against my pleading otherwise), so it should be easy to find bags of seed. After the seed is down, walk on every square inch of soil to ensure you have good seed-to-soil contact. Water lightly, 3x per day, for a week. At no time should the soil ever become soggy. All you have to do is keep the seed at the surface moist.
    9. Ryegrass should give you 80% germination in a week this time of year. When the grass gets up to 5 inches high, mow it down to 4 inches. Water less and less frequently as the grass matures until you are watering one inch all at one time. With the cooler weather coming the grass should be able to handle watering 1 inch every 2 or 3 weeks until next May.
    10. In the middle of next May, repeat steps 1-9 and put down bermuda seed in mid June.

    Also you're going to find that bermuda will not do well up against a brick wall, under a tree, north of a shrub, or anywhere else where it gets shade. It needs about 5+ hours of full, unfiltered sunlight to thrive and become dense. If it seems to be thin, then don't try to reseed. Just accept that bermuda will not grow there, and do something else. You might put flowers or other plants, but if those other plants cast a shadow over the bermuda, then you have only moved the problem around.

    Let me know if you are interested in using organic fertilizer in the yard. I've been using either corn meal or alfalfa pellets (rabbit chow) since 2002 and will never use chemical ferts again. These cost about 1/7 what commercially bagged organic fertilizers cost and work just as well.

    If you have not visited Roger's Gardens in Costa Mesa, do that and become inspired about things you can do in the garden. Also worthy of a visit are Descanso Gardens and The Huntington Library in the Pasadena/Altadena area, but those are more of a day trip for you in BP.

    Alex Kemp thanked dchall_san_antonio
  • Alex Kemp
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    @dchall_san_antonio thank you! We sprayed it today and will follow your guide. Bought the Rye seed, too. We used to live in Phoenix and are familiar with the perennial grass seeding situation, so it will be pretty normal.

  • dchall_san_antonio
    2 years ago

    Used to live in Phoenix? You're in for a shock in Buena Park.

    If you need to get a dose of dry heat back into your blood, there's a place called The Living Desert in Palm Desert, CA about 30 miles past Palm Springs. It's sort of a bio reserve for desert plants and animals.