Smaller flowers, but rock solid describes Pink Pet. JaMarjorieMarjoMarjorieFair, SummerRomance, Cinderella, Belindas Dream, Gol Seafoad Blush is a thug,

GoldBlush is a thug. Ascot BSs here, btw. Anthony Waterer, Applejack. Perfumed Breeze is outstanding and probably my number 1 recommendation if the flowers arent too small for you. Fire Opal, The Chestnut Rose, Cornelia and Felicia.WindChimes. The Harkness rose RobinHood would be fabulous, but will sometimes BS, but continues blooming like crazy with fabulously fragrant blooms. Also, Seafoam.

Thank you Diane. You are always very kind. I am going to try and find some Jupiter’s beard to add to my area together with Tuscany Superb which I was lucky to get from Heirloom this late. I am excited to try something new. I always love seeing your Julia pictures. I hope you have a nice thanksgiving planned at your house and your granddaughter is coming to enjoy it with you.

Dianela, you are so beautiful!

Nice picture of you

Kennedy spent the night so I’m a little distracted but I will try and hurry.

My Armide is young and is about 2x2. I expect it to grow very slowly but it does look like it’s growing healthy and balanced. It is in an area surrounded by large leaf maples and the dirt is so co gested with roots. That is why I thought it might do well for you-it is doing quite well for such an inhospitable area

Jupiter’s Beard multiplies like crazy here and also thrives in terrible dirt so i would definitely recommend it for your bed

The majority of the Gallicas are suckering/thicket-forming roses, yes. How well they do in difficult soil conditions depends largely on how vigorous the chosen variety is. I can think of several Gallicas that are weak growers that require much more pampering to grow (yes - I'm looking at YOU, 'Tricolore de Flandre'), and so would not be ideal for the site you describe.

'Charles de Mills' is often described as a "thug in the garden" - meaning that it suckers aggressively and will tolerate the worst of soils (mine is very heavy, rock-like clay) and still perform well.

Is it an attractive plant when not in flower? In my climate, it is, yes. It doesn't Blackspot at all, and only mildews in late fall if its in a place where air movement is poor and/or its in a shady spot. (I have several plants of it in various locations). Its got very nice deep emerald green foliage and the plant tends to be a kind of umbrella shaped shrub: somewhat lax and cascading growth.

I would NOT recommend any Austin rose for conditions like mine (and presumably yours) - all of mine dwindled and died within 2-3 years after I stopped spraying fungicides, and even then, none of them exactly prospered: they do not like heavy clay soil. There are two exceptions: 'A Shropshire Lad' and 'Chianti' are both alive and doing fairly well, although 'A Shropshire Lad' rarely flowers after its spring flush, and it does get Blackspot quite badly.

PS: I would also consider Moore's 'Red Cascade' for difficult sites. Mine thrives in total neglect, planted in a difficult spot in the worst of clay soils. Its a superb rose, ideally suited to challenging sites, and the red is a wonderfully rich dark garnet hue.

Kes I am pretty sure our growing conditions and blackspot pressure are very similar. I have not tried any of the roses you mentioned and I am going to save their names. I really appreciate your feedback.

Vapor thank you for your recommendations. Interestingly I just received a chestnut rose as a gift from a friend and was wondering how it performed. I will plant it in the ground after seeing your comment.

Kristine thank you very much. That picture was 3 years ago I think. Despite Diane’s kind comment I am much closer to 40 than any other other age, but I am grateful for such nice comments.

Oursteelers thank you! I hope you have a lovely day. Your Armide is definitely something gorgeous to me. I have had trouble finding good white blends to grow no spray.

I read some crazy stuff about the Cherokee Rose (Rosa laevigata). If memory serves, this person had started one and it kept on going over a slope, through the woods, a few acres over to neighboring properties. I dont grow this but remembered because it sounded wild and intriguing, which I like.

I was researching about Cherokee vs Mermaid (the one I ended up getting). Mermaid could take your conditions easy. I had it out in a solid clay area of the front of our old property where I couldnt get any flowers to grow. I didnt water because I couldnt get the hose out that far. It got huge and we placed a large metal circle cattle hay feeder around it.

I dont know if you are too cold for Mermaid but Cherokee is listed at zone 7-9.

They both have single flowers that the bees & other pollinators like.

Paul thank you for your post. Your expert opinion is always very appreciated. I was not able to find Charles so late in the season, but found Tuscany Superb. In another post Sheila mentioned some of your beautiful Gallicas. Do you have any available ones this year or for next year?

I'd worry about how well gallicas in general could take your climate. Here, they start blooming about the second week of June, and do not like it when the first heat wave of the season arrives around the 4th of July. Isphahan and the setigeras are the only once bloomers that come through that.

So no, you do not want my toughest roses. You want *your* toughest roses, which are probably quite different.

Oh yes! A second vote for Red Cascade. I didn't mention it before as it has tiny flowers!. Beautiful deep red, almost black co!our.

Mad_gallica you make a good point. I read gallicas need some chill to bloom well and we get a decent amount of cold weather here in north Alabama, but we also get hot fast. I am going to try Tuscany Superb to see if she likes it here before getting to carried away “again” with roses that don’t do great here. Like we all have heard many times, location, location. Thank you for your post.

Sultry I have thought of Mermaid before, but I am looking for something with more petals. My Guirlande is already a similar variety with simple to semi doubles blooms. I also grow Darlow’s enigma which is an amazing rose.

I will find another spot for red cascade since it seems to be regarded by many to have great health and that’s what I need. This rea is close to a walkway and I was hopping for something with larger blooms.

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.772.0

https://www.helpmefind.c

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.5795.0&tab=1

om/rose/l.php?l=2.19240.5&tab=1

OI forgotff

OI forgotff forgotff Skyrocket

How do teas perform in your area? I’m in the Houston area with heavy clay. Teas and Chinas are exceptional here. No fungal diseases and I offer no supplemental water, no spray or fertilizers, and as a bonus they aren’t bothered by chili thrips. My Mrs. B R Cant is 8 feet from the trunk of a live oak, probably stressed by lack of water and too much shade, and it still has perfect leaves and large, fragrant flowers. This is a large shrub, easily 8-10 feet wide. I would guess that in your full sun it would be even better.

Weekend gardener the only teas I have tried are Mrs. Dudley Cross (died to the ground every year and finally died) and now I have two MACs I guess a tea noisette. MAC seems to do well tho they are not behaving like the monsters I was hoping for (spindly plants 6 feet tall after 3 years). I have always assumed my temps were too cold for these clases of roses and have have never tried them. I am in Alabama but we are zone 7b and get to low single digits regularly during the evenings in the winter months. We have already had nights down to 28 this year. We cant grow live oaks like down south.

Vapor I love that Alba. I am here setting relaxing after thanksgiving lunch and contemplating going home and digging up a 3 year old MAC I have in partial shade ( not soing much) and moving it to this area. I found an old thread where I think Kim posted a picture of a self standing MAC and it looked spectacular.

Dianela, our winter cold is pretty close although we usually only have around a weeks worth of single digits and Mrs BR Cant, Madame Joseph Achwartz, Duchess de Brabant, G Nabonnand, Madame Antoine Mari, Marchioness of Londonderry and Souv de Louis Amade all do fine. Cl Lamarque and Cl Devoniensis haven’t done great but I don’t know if that’s cause they want more heat and less cold or because they are planted at the base of large leaf maples

oursteelers are they blackspot free also?

I do like them, I just didnt know I could really grow them. I always pick roses hardy to zone 6. I may need to branch out

They are reasonably good with blackspot-Mrs BR Cant being excellent and Souv de Louis Amade being just ok, everyone else ranges in the middle with Londonderry being pretty close to excellent.

Also I would say I don’t winter prepare but I guess texhnically I kinda do since I use mowed leaves about six inches deep everywhere. I do it for the soil but in reality it probably helps the less hardy ones get

through the winter easier

MAC grows huge here, but is not blooming as well as she did when potted. I think her nutritional requirements must be high. She definitely appreciates sun.

I dont mean to overwhelm you, but LaMarne is a very healthy, constantly blooming charming with little care. LOVE this rose and its one I dont see talked about too often.

Vapor thank you for all the orAll the suggestions are very helpful. Specially when they are roses not even in my radar. I want to have healthy blackspot free roses without constant spray and it may be possible.

Mrs B R cant has excellent blackspot resistance here as well. One of my best and favorite roses. It is a great bloomer, not fussy and doesn't need a lot of care. She smells like candy to my nose.

MAC gets really BIG! I had her in full sun on a gazebo wrapped up, over, back and forth and she still shot out lots of laterals straight up waving like flags on top of the gazebo lol. She can be light pink in winter or white in summer. She gets a little black spot during the rainy season (summer here). It sheds the leaves and quickly replaces them. At the new place, I have her right next to our barn because I know she can climb it and take up some real estate.

I am in zone 8b now in NW Fl panhandle. We get more freezes here than the east fl coast zone 9 so we will see how MAC behaves here.

Rosette Delizy is another very carefree black spot resistant rose here. If you need to brighten up a spot or need a yellow to pink transitional rose, she is it!

@sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish)

Thank you Rosette Delizy is lovely, adding her to my list.

How long did it take your MAC to get huge? I have two own root that are 3 years old and are merely 6 feet tall with like 10 canes each, I have not been impressed.

Just throwing Maggie and Buff Beauty out there since I havent seen them mentioned yet. These thrive with minimal care at a local cemetery. I will second Mrs B.R. Cant bc I think you would love her beautiful, large blooms. She gets big here. I absolutely adore Maggie. There is a beautiful bush pic of Maggie on HMF. She smells fruity, maybe peach? Belinda’s Dream is also a pretty specimen in the cemetery.

The one rose I have (3 of them, in fact, with the newer ones arising from arching habit on hillside, with subsequent rooting after ground contact) that meets the requirements listed in your opening post, is the subject of this discussion:

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6335026/is-sea-foam-blackspot-resistant#n=7

The original rose, planted long before I first lived here, is well over 40 years old. As are its progeny.

Do you have FlorentineFlorentina? I grow it as a non limber in zone 5 and she is healthy and vigorous. Maybe she would be too much of a climber in your zone? Ugh I cannot change the typos!!!!!

When I'm 100 yrs old, I will be growing 1 variety of rose. Rosa Rugosa Alba. It is by far the toughest rose that constantly blooms all season.

All I do is give it a little Espoma Plant Tone once a month. water it a couple of times a week and I get out of the way and let it do it's thing.

Flowers - those are AMAZINGly beautiful roses!!! SWOON!!!

Ken - what is the fragrance like? I imagine it's strong. :)

Oh, Flowers I do love all your roses, especially Rosarium Uetersen. Talk about luscious. Wonderful fence with just the right look, but useful to hold up laks canes (yes, Flowers, a new keyboard is coming with real ekses). Where did you get your Rosarium? I assume it's own root.

What a beautiful, lush rose bed, Ken. Diane

Diane, I'm happy you have a new keyboard coming, but I so enjoy your eks and aks substitutions. I'll have to find something else to chuckle about when I read through these posts.

Rosarium Uetersen is an OR from Northland. Took awhile to get established, so I would recommend grafted. The first flush is something to behold, then, the rest of the season is sporadic. The canes are heavy and thick, like your PAofKent which is fine if you don't plan to move it. Not trying to turn anyone against it because those blooms are worth everything.

Flowers and all who are interested--please check out my comments on Edwards new roses, and some new perennials that I ranted about. Diane

@flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA Ugh that photo of Rosarie de l'Hay is gorgeousssss!

I am super impressed with 'Suñorita. Never a hit of black spot and always in bloom and that's a tall order in Michigan.

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.73101.2&tab=1 

Diane, Earth Song grows like a weed to about 5' tall and 5' wide in my midwestern garden. (I have grown it in two places in town and it is very vigorous. Almost a continuous bloomer, floriferous, blackspot and disease resistant (it is a Griffith Buck rose), hardy. The walkers who come by to admire my roses alongside the sidewalk usually peg Earth Song as their favorite. The color is amazing. Unfortunately this photographer didn't capture its true self, and now we are out of season.

You can get a better idea here if you like it. 'Earth Song' Rose Photo (helpmefind.com)

Dr Huey is what they use for root stock. It's red and a climber. I just planted High Flyer own root....it's a little rose, but hardy.

I just wanted to take a moment to relate my personal experience with very dense clay/difficult growing sites.

Twenty-three years ago, we prepared an acre of the property for planting about 3000 different roses. Many were on their own roots, but there were about forty varieties that came from Pickering Nurseries, most of which were on R. multiflora roots (a few were on Laxa). All of the farm is heavy clay, but there were areas of the acre we chose that were far more dense clay and planting in these spots was very difficult. For some spots, we had to use a gas-powered auger to dig a hole and 12" was about as far down as the auger would go.

Not surprisingly, the roses planted in these worst locations never did well, and we chose REALLY sturdy, vigorous roses for those spots. Things like 'Darlow's Enigma' and some of the most aggressive Gallicas. 'Yolande d'Aragon' lasted 5 years and then failed completely. Many of them grew for a few years, and then died. Not one of them actually thrived. The 'Darlow's Enigma' planted in one of the worst locations is now about 4 feet tall (after 23 years!!!) and it looks sad. (Another 'Darlow's' specimen planted in a much better location is not 18 feet X 15 feet!) 'Erinnerung an Brod' is two pencil thick canes about 5 feet long, which is as big as its gotten in that 23 years.

My point is: not even the toughest, healthiest, most vigorous rose will perform well in very difficult sites, especially "concrete hard" clay. Sometimes its better to acknowledge the difficulty you're facing and choose a different path.

@User

Paul like always I am grateful you took the time to share some of your hard earned knowledge and experience. I think you are correct. Before all this began I found some magazine article saying that while gardeners didn’t appreciate clay the roses didn’t mind. After 3 years or so gardening on this 2nd garden I can tell that at least some roses really hate this clay and simply won’t grow no matter what that article said. From all the varieties I have tried Flamenco Rosita, Guirlande d’Amour and Peggy Martin are the only ones that seem not to mind (all own root). I don’t have much knowledge on rose genetics, but I think I may try to study and see if anything is known regarding these varieties that may help me pick future roses. Also I will go to my local garden center and see what sort of rugged evergreen would be my replacement for the roses if they don’t workout this year.

Best regards,

Dianela

@nicole___

Nicole thank you for your comment. Unfortunately while the Dr. Is a tough hard to kill rose, he is a giant blackspot mess here in my area.

Mark thank you very much for your posts. That Earth song is magnificent and I love pinks. Do you have high blackspot pressure in the Midwest? I am making a list of all the roses on this thread. Besides the challenging spot I am trying to cover I have farm land in which I will create a brand new spray free garden in the near future. My biggest concern is blackspot resistance so I appreciate all these options of roses to try.

@Tim Wood

Tim thank you very much for mentioning sunorita, I had never heard of it and she is beautiful. Like I mentioned on another comment I am collecting a list of blackspot resistant varieties to try on a spray free garden here in the south. I have tried at least a couple hundred variety of roses in the past 6 years or so, but this thread will hopefully help me start with a solid group of roses. Thank you!

StruuStruggling with houzz will continue replying soon

How about a Harrison? Yellow and hardy here.

Thank you nicole I think Harrison’s yellow is definetly a superb rose, going on my list.