Hi, Paul,
No, sorry, they are not the same roses. There is a slight confusion with the names of these 2 roses, sometines.

Royal Palace rose has been called “Rogue Royal,” spelling difference, on Etsy, I have research it a few times. I have seen Royal Palace label Rogue few times on Etsy.

Rouge Royal is a different rose, different spelling word.

Rouge (means color red) vrs Rogue (unexpected) , two different words.

I confused them , too, at one point. They are different roses. Lol!

About the Royal Palace discussion:

There is an entry for this rose on the website Rosebook, a kind of russian version of HMF. It says the rose was bred in 2017 and gives the breeder info as "Hikaru, Shizuoka, Japan". Because of the comma it isn't clear to me if Shizuoka is part of the breeder name or if it refers to the city in Japan.

http://www.rosebook.ru/roses/tea-hybrid/royal-palace/

I tried looking online but couldn't find anything about a rose breeder by the name Hikaru or Shizuoka, so unfortunately the trail goes cold.

Edit: I highly recommend clicking on the "More photos" tab on the rosebook page to see actual growers' pics as opposed to the often photoshopped seller pics on other sites.

Edit 2:

BenT, I just saw your comment above. Very interesting that the website you found gives a completely different breeder than Rosebook. I tried looking for a Keichi Kawa, but I haven't found any hybridizer by that name either, even with different spellings.

However, if indeed Royal Palace is truly a distinct variety from Rouge Royale, could it be this one? The breeder's name is Keiji Kunieda.

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.87796

Here is Meilland's Rouge Royale, which I've grown for a number of years. I have two plants now I like it so well. It's great in a vase, has a wonderful scent, and blooms a lot. It's definitely red, not purple. Diane

Rogue Royale is a well established variety in Asia and distinct from Rouge Royale. Rogue Royale takes on blue/purple tones while Rouge is a red red rose. I don’t think the Japanese or Chinese rose industry is falsifying names. Perhaps an individual Etsy seller may be doing that, but the industry is good about attributing varieties to the hybridizer and correct chosen name.

There’s another deep red in Asia called Autumn Rouge that has chalice shaped blooms

In the middle of the bouquet below.

I don’t know why I feel the need to grow so many deep reds that burn instantly in my hot sun, but I do.

Well, most of the Asian rose world‘s varieties and breeders are absent on HMF, that doesn’t make them invalid. HMF is very centric to the Western world, but the Meillands and Voorns and other Europeans have thriving businesses in China and work with their industry and breeders.

One thing common to most of these new sellers is the way their pics are mostly of bouquets of one variety. I think it's very effective and pretty to mass them like that. Makes you think that the plant must put out tons of blooms but it's possible it's a number of plants they're cutting the blooms from. That's why it would be great to see some whole plant pics. I know some of Ben's show prolifically blooming plants.

The primped (you can remove the "r" in that word, if you like) up, greenhouse grown, massed bouquets of the Japanese roses makes me suspicious of how they will actually look as a garden rose grown by an American gardener. That's one big reason why HMF is so good. You get views of how the seller's primped up roses really look in a garden. My photos above are taken with an old digital camera. There is no primping in any of my photos. I also feel that the Japanese roses are kind of derivative or imitative of popular Austins and Meilland roses. not to mention the names that sound imitative of other roses. But there is lots of copycat stuff produced by more than just the Japanese. Diane

Ben, Thank you! To add to it’s vertuity…. I grow many of the popular roses on Etsy now….. they are beautiful….
Pas de Deux
Royal Palace
Shenoburedo
Cartonnage
Domain de Chantilly
Etffy
Mikoto
Miyabi
Sheherazade
Theirry Marx
Robe a la Francaise
Rouge de Parfum
Kagelou
DeCherly
Yves Splash Charlotte
Masora
Autumn Rouge

That’s 17 so far I remember I bought from Etsy…. Many Asian sellers. Sometimes you can see a video of the rose bush. I am very happy with my Etsy sellers and roses!

Ben, Autumn Rouge is a fun new rose in my indoor winter green house. She came in Nov to me, 2023. She’s putted growing under a Gro-lamp by bay window.

My Indoor green house, photos of many of my new Etsy roses!

BenT, agreed, and even among the European roses there are many that are missing from HMF. I have a few Greek roses by Avramis and none of them are listed, even though they have proper breeder codes etc. I did email Avramis suggesting they put their roses on HMF but they didn't reply, so I guess they just aren't interested.

Diane, if you're uinterested you can find actual garden pics of Royal Palace on the Rosebook page , see the "more photos" tab. I guess the host country of that website can be a turnoff , but to paraphrase Sting, I hope the Russians love their roses too .

Diane, Love your Rouge Royale! Beautiful photos! I ordered her from GRF, coming to my garden in the spring.

If you research the photos , many Etsy sellers do show the whole bush as well as bouquets…. I have collected tons of photos of each rose after researching on Etsy….of roses I ordered as I wait for them to bloom….. I have seen them on videos sometimes, too. For example, Royal Palace has over 25 photos I looked at. on Etsy…. some whole bushes. If you do enough research you can easily see and know your rose well before ordering.

I would not question their verity on Etsy Asian roses. They are mostly just unique varieties. Most of them are bouquet types of roses, rare roses. After having a whole garden bed of them outside and a green house of them inside the home this winter…. I assure you, they are very nice roses! Loving them!

Royal Palace, Etsy photos,
Bush photos

Sometimes a photo may be enhanced I suppose, but I find my photos of my garden roses are just as pretty as any on Etsy or other sellers. These roses are gorgeous…. They don’t really need any enhancing.

Kitty, thank you. And I know I sound like an old grump, but dollars to donuts that first photo is enhanced with extra blooms. and the color darkened. In fact, I wouldn't trust any of the photos, and would rather see gardener, not seller, photos on HMF before I purchased anything. Diane

To understand the rose I buy from Etsy or the European sellers or Asian sellers, I also look for bloom size and number of petals.

I know that Royal Palace is 4 inch blooms. It may be smaller than Rouge Royale and The Prince. Autumn Rouge also has smaller blooms. However I love my Asian roses….they are beautiful in their own unique way!

I am using Houzz App, many problems… can’t edit and it blurs words all together when I made a list of roses. I hope I can go back to using the website. Houzz App is not good!

I love the enthusiasm for sleuthing.

Sometimes words like royal and the like in Chinese and Japanese can be a like-translation. Such as Palace.

BTW, pro-tip: Leave the really spendy roses in your basket for a day and see if they send you 10% off.

Diane,
I’ll give you dozens of photos this coming 2024 season for my Etsy roses, ok? And dark fall photos of Royal Palace! I noticed in the 2 blooms I had, it gets very dark wine colored.

Diane, 🥀😊🥀All in fun! Gardening roses is a Dream!

Kitty, I hope you will post some pics and comments on the general forum not just the ongoing special threads which we don't all follow. Also you might consider posting pics on hmf.

Don't worry, Dianne. I'll try to be good and post more photos on HMF this year. I still can't lower my upper body below my heart level, so it's been an interesting 2 years (hence way less photos than I used to), but I'd like to show more blooms.

I am glad that Rosebook.ru was introduced here, more comprechensive source of info that HMF.

http://www.rosebook.ru/roses/gallery/royal-palace/

Elena, Nice photos of Royal Palace on
Rose book website! Thank you!

Erasmus, Maybe when my Japanese roses bloom well in June, July…2024 I’ll start a thread to show their blooms. (What part of the general forum did you want me to post photos?)

People also mentioned about Royal Palace, that this rose is chameleon, when it getting cooller in Fall the color became more like beet.

Elena, Yes, like many red/burgandy roses, it gets darker and darker burgandy in the cooler fall.

Elena, I think both HMF and Rosebook are useful. HMF definitely has the advantage of being able to look up parentage and also proper references for the information they post. But sometimes, plants may not be listed or pictures may be absent or there's only one. Rosebook can be a good complementary source for pictures, especially for modern roses. For OGR and species, another good source is roses.shoutwiki.com , they will sometimes have pictures when HMF doesn't.

KittyNYz6, might I ask about your indoor set-up for these roses? Is it an actual greenhouse, or is it somewhere indoors in your house? Because I always understood that roses do not do well indoors. Am I correct in guessing that the reason you have them indoors, rather than planting them out, is because you just recently got them and don't want to plant them out til Spring? That you plan to winter them indoors, plant out in spring, and then just let them be outdoor roses? (You wouldn't be planning to bring them in every winter, would you?) The reason I ask is I'm just wondering if you have any concern about the hardiness of these roses. I too am in zone 6, probably 6b (although we may have been upgraded to zone 7). I'm starting slow with these new-to-the-US varieties, with just Sheherezade, Rainy Blue, Thierry Marx, and Lilas (coming this spring). From what I can tell they should be ok, but was just wondering if you were concerned.

Kitty, and anyone else who grows these roses, it would be great and much appreciated if you'd post pics on the regular old rose or antique rose forum. Same place you're posting right now.

I also am wary of growing roses indoors. In my location, when I've tried it the plant got spider mites. I keep them inside for as short a time as possible if I have to bring any in. Most stay outside unless it gets in the low teens . I do most of my plant protection under my house where it's cold but not freezing. But Kitty, you may well have experience growing them succesfully indoors.

Your selection sounds about like what I'd order if I was ordering, Frances. It'll be great to hear how they do.

I'm not Kitty, but I use a grow tent. They are not cheap to set up properly, but great for northern climates trying to fight off the winter blues. The daily dose of artificial sunshine is nice too! You need a large grow tent, the proper fan type, the proper charcoal canister filter type, a massive grow light that produces no heat, a water proof liner, a humidifier that has cannisters to remove mineralization, an outlet timer, and something to read the temp/humidity accurately.

For me, it is worth it. Oregon gets VERY dark in the winter. For others, maybe not. It is probably possible to do this with less if you ONLY want to grow out roses over the winter, since their foliage will be less delicate to humidity needs, but if ALSO want to do more tender things, you need the full set up.

Before considering location, remember that despite the industrial fans these things can use, they will still be warmer inside that out. That means a winter warm home can dry things out quickly. Unless you use a straight 3% hydrogen peroxide solution for rooting materials in those things, they will get rot diseases at those temps. So consider somewhere cooler as well, depending on what your goals are (or a separate, smaller apparatus for cuttings until they can be placed in a larger grow tent).

Seaside - I've never heard of Rosebook...thanks for the link. :)

Jadae - I've often thought about a grow tent...I had no idea it would be that involved. So if I ever seriously think about it...you're the one to ask about how to do it. :) :)

Erasmus, Frances, Jadae,

To respond & answer a few questions…..

I call it my @Green House,” but it’s just in my living room, bay window area. Not a real green house. LOL! I also grow 2 roses in kitchen.

Kitchen is coolest-& better for the roses… less bugs. However, I must spray for mites, be extra careful for bay window & kitchen roses. To combat “dry, I have to water just a cup of water daily or more. I may buy a humidifier-would be good!

I bought roses in fall so I had to pot & bring inside. They were too small/young to make it through a NY cold winter. All roses & plants indoors will be planted outside in the spring. They will grow outside always afterwards.

It has been fun watching them mature over winter. They will be winter hardy when they get bigger for next winter outside. They are all zone 5 Japanese & European roses.

Jadae, I have considered a tent…. A great idea! Yours sounds like it works well. It’s pretty cold in NY and new plants sometimes especially need winter protection their first winters.

Frances, The Jaoanese & European roses on my list are zone 5, hardy! I am zone 6, too. I have Sheherazade and Theirry Narx, little more mature rose bushes, growing in my garden beds outside this winter. They were new mid-summer, though, so kinda small canes. I put burlap & mounded bark in my smaller outside roses for winter warmth. I may be slightly colder than you…. some parts of my property are colder in winter than other parts, too….. I take extra care for warmth with young roses or cooler locations. (

(My 16 indoor potted roses are very new-no time to grow enough to be outside, yet.)
You should take special care of potted roses, too, when winter comes.)

NEW RESEARCH NEWS!!!!! I researched Royale Palace all evening today!

Reading about Royal Palace rose and Japanese roses…... The roses usually on ETSY , the Japanese roses, are rare-authentically bred in Japan. One of the breeders is Keiji Kunieda, who creates Wabara roses. It is fascinating to read about these unique Japanese roses…the have earned their place in the international market.

Seaside,
Thank you to Seaside for finding the 80101WABARA rose on HMF! That is it’s patented name. You can read more about the patent on JUSTIA. I read & read and iit appears i80101WABARA is Royale Palace rose! I read all that may be available on the internet and they match. Then I matched my Royale Leaves with HMF photo of leaves-perfect match!
I wrote the seller I bought Royale Palace rose from, ZephrGardens on Etsy, to confirm breeder,
Keiji Kunieda, creator of Wabara Roses.

WABARA roses brand in Japan is well known in Japan. Keiji K. also bred Miyabi rose as well as many florist roses. Wabara roses are florist roses! I have Miyabi, also-very pretty bloom!

You can read about Keiji K. , rose breeder, and his Wabara roses on their website or click on link below….

https://thursd.com/articles/extraordinary-wabara-roses-from-japan

WABARA, Japanese rose brand…. Keiji Kunieda breeder, you tube video……click below….
Demonstrates how their rose farm grows Japanese roses as well as makes skincare, create floral arrangements from their roses, and farm roses……

https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=CPi5I56XK5A&embeds_referring_euri=https://thursd.com/&source_ve_path=MTM5MTE3LDI4NjY2&feature=emb_logo

Hi, WOHOO!!!!!!!

I just used the Houzz website and I can use it again! I don’t need to use the Houzz App anymore! I can edit better now on tge Houzz website!!!!!! YAY! i’m back!

Thanks, Kitty.

Jadae and Kitty, thanks so much for all this wonderful information! Unfotunately, I don't think a grow tent will work for me. My 3-tier plant cart (with fantastic led lights that have produced the best seedlings every) is in my tiny cramped office, where I need to work. I don't think I could have a structure like that! However, my new roses are coming in the spring so hopefully all will be ok and I can put them out then. The one time I tried wintering over roses indoors (I bought them on a trip to California) they all ended out pining away and dying, in spite of my best efforts to keep the humidity up, to take them outdoors when it wasn't too too cold, etc. But it's nice to know that some people can manage it!

So cool to read about the Japanese roses!

I overwintered roses in my basement for years under fluorescent lights. The basement was naturally chilly (low 60's) and naturally damp. I know not all basements are like that, and ours is noticably warmer since we replaced the boiler.

The mention of plant light always reminds me of a time years ago. Our first house was relatively close to where DH and I went to college. So we ended up hosting a lot of college friends who were in the area. We ended up with a full house one weekend, and I warned the friend who drew the living room couch 'the plants get up early'. The seedling light setup was in the living room, and the timer turned the lights on at 7. The next morning, he said 'I had no idea what you were talking about last night, but I found out this morning'.

Frances, I’m glad your roses are coming in the spring. If you order Etsy roses…. just irder them in the spring & they usually ship asap at that time. Justcdon’t irder artsy rises in mid-winter because they ship right away-that’s how Icstarted growing roses inside, Lol!

@mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)

Niceeeeeeeee! I’m glad your roses grew well in your basement that was cool. i have a boiler in my basement, so way too hot down there, for me! Lol! Funny Funny, your friend being woke-up to Gro-lights! Lol! Surprise!

My roses have the bay window & gro-lights-enough sun for them. However, roses in kitchen have only kitchen window-they grow slow, but nicely. it’s cooler in the kitchen which keeps plants happier, too.

It’s so nice having happy roses growing in the house. i even have a NEW ROSE BUD I grew leaves them a bud all indoors! A ROSE BUD on new Violet’s Pride.

The Gro-Lights are best! A cool 60-70F temp in home is best to nor dry too much. They grow faster w/ the gro- lights as winter light in windows is dimmer, but helps, too.

Ok….. too dry in house….. I just ordered a humidifier for roses in bay window area w/ Gro-lights.

I know some people keep their potted roses in their garage all winter and I think some don't even have any light. They are just dormant and don't apparently need the light. But at house temps they are not going to be dormant I guess. Peter Schneider at Freedom Gardens overwinters his big potted plants without light somewhere cold but protected, a garage I think, but his little ones remain outside with hay bales for insulation so they'll get light. That's in the northern part of Ohio.

When I was in college I had indoor light set ups for seedlings such as houseplants , gloxinias, and african violets. Also my little rented mini cottage was covered in thunbergia vines. Didn't think about roses back then. I'll be setting up my indoor lights in Jan. to start seeds.

Erasmas, Growing seedlings inside is fun! In Jan. I will start ranunculus corms in pots/ and seeds in pots in early March , all In home. Gro-lights may be needed.

Growing roses inside is quite a trick…. having gro-lights is now my saving grace for the bay window roses and must spray for mites often. A humidfier is the next idea i may add.

My kitchen window/counter area is unusually cool so they do best there -more light from that window, also! So more humid, more light and less bugs! The 2 roses are so happy there!

Kitty - what a treat...having a rose bud in winter!! I hope the open flower has a really nice fragrance for you,

Carol, Thank you! Wow! fragrance would be niiiiceeeee in winter! A rose bud opening in winter is amazing!

I had two tree roses that I kept in the garage over winter. Unexpectedly, they emerged from dormancy by sending out long, white canes. I brought them home, and by mid-March, I had blooming trees.

Elena,

In zone 6 you brought them in the house when? and by mid-March blooms! Wowza! Sooooo cool to have blooms in March! Usually my zone 6 blooms are early June!

I wonder how many early bloomers I will have this year in my “green leafed house roses” during winter! Lol!

Yours are pretty blooms! Did you use gro-lights, spray for in house bugs, too?

Kitty, last year I brought my tree roses into the garage around mid-December. Surprisingly, sometime in mid-February, they showed white growth. Uncertain about what to do, I opted to bring them back home without any special lighting. As the weather grew warmer, I moved them to the deck during the day and brought them back inside the living room on chilly nights.

Elena - they're beautiful!! I especially love the striped rose!! I'm glad that worked out so well for you.

Elena,

I can see them enjoying being outside near Feb end during the day. , but blooming by March, Wow!

Elena

Those tree roses look amazing for having grown inside. Any special care , especially regards to humidity and light? I’m going to guess they are Scentimental and either Shockwave or Julia Child.

Ben, sure you are right, Sentimental and Julia Child! I can't take credit for anything special, just fortunate that these roses, mature and resilient, displayed their splendor in any conditions. They were positioned near a large, floor-to-ceiling south-facing window, benefiting from temperatures of 68-70F and the aid of a humidifier. Their early start seemed to set the stage for their exceptional performance throughout the season. Julia Child continued blooming until early December, offering about 6-7 flashes of beautiful blossoms!