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katie_karkowski97

Kitchen Floorplan - L vs U Shape

Katie Karkowski
last month

I'm starting a full kitchen renovation and looking for 3rd party input on the floorplan. Any input is appreciated.


The space and wants/needs:

1. The kitchen measures approximately 12 x 12 and the walls are not moving. The 32" door to the left goes to the mudroom/entry (this doorway could possibly move), the 30" door to the right goes to the dining room and then to the rest of the house, the hall goes to a bathroom, a bedroom, and the basement.

2. The 12' 1" wall faces south and I want big window(s) to maximize natural light.

3. Visually, I value symmetry and would love the sink in the middle with a big window above, but that makes a dishwasher difficult (using NKBA standards) and I want to ensure I have functional counter space for cooking/baking (I've read 3-4 feet is ideal). This led me to create the other floorplans with the sink pushed to one side and two symmetrical windows.

4. One thing I'm struggling with the sink to one side and two window scenario is how to make the upper cabinets fit.

5. I could do the sink to one side with one big window to maximize upper cabinets. I worry it will look off without symmetry, but I might be wrong.

6. I know it will add cost, but the window(s) and appliances can go anywhere in the space. The most important thing is function, useable counter and cabinet space, and a fair amount of natural light.


Which floorplan seems best? Any other ideas?





Comments (22)

  • PRO
    RappArchitecture
    last month

    Agree with herb about the fridge. I'd put the sink in the middle, under some sort of window as wide as possible. I don't see any conflict with dishwasher on either side. And I would consider a movable table unit/cart in the center of the space.

    Katie Karkowski thanked RappArchitecture
  • acm
    last month

    I don't see the urgency in moving the fridge. I'd use one of the U-shaped layouts, as that left wall just seems wasted in the L. My parents had a layout like that with the fridge + pantries on the lower wall, and it was a great kitchen!


    I can see that the sink-D/W combo is troubling you. You might consider putting the dishwasher around the corner from the sink, which would allow you to have it full-sized. I have that arrangement (with a lazy susan in between), and it was about the only way to make my kitchen work.

    Katie Karkowski thanked acm
  • PRO
    Diana Bier Interiors, LLC
    last month

    Your space is a lot like mine, except mine is 13' wide and I have a peninsula on the left, making it a G-shaped kitchen. It's also much longer, at 20'. Yours would be best with a U-shape. I'd keep the sink where you have it in #1, move the dishwasher to the right of it, and move the stove to the opposite wall. Then move the fridge to the long wall where the stove was. I don't see a problem with having the sink on that 12' wall with a full-sized dishwasher to the right.

    I'd also move the door to the mudroom further down and align it with the 32" door on the right. The run of cabinets where the fridge is planned could be full height with a pullout pantry.

    Katie Karkowski thanked Diana Bier Interiors, LLC
  • AnnKH
    last month

    Definitely a U, with the range on the left and the fridge on the right, pantry cabinets on the bottom wall (perhaps a cabinet with counter in the middle, to provide a landing space for the pantry). And move the 32" door toward the bottom, to allow more room for the range.


    This does give you two corners. There have been tons of threads here about how to deal with corner cabinets, and the solutions that work best for you (I use the plural, because you don't need to do the same thing in both corners), depends entirely on what kind of storage you need in those areas (which depends, in part, on what kind of storage you have elsewhere).


    I see 2 reasons for moving the fridge: first, it takes the fridge out of the walkway, and second, it can be closer to the dining room. Having just cabinets (floor to ceiling pantry or base and uppers, depending on your needs) on the bottom wall allows you to move the door over more, giving you an extra foot on the range (left) wall.

    Katie Karkowski thanked AnnKH
  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn
    last month
    last modified: last month

    I find symmetry a little restricting especially when function is much more important. It is easy to do in large rooms but more difficult when space is a premium. I disagree with moving the ref. I think adding it into the U will kill your counters and make the room look smaller.

    I would offset the window to the left. Here is the plan I did ( I had some spare time on lunch to give it a shot )







    This has a 24" dw, a larger sink base for a 30" sink and a 60" window.

    Hope this helps getting your ideas going

    Good luck!

    Katie Karkowski thanked Debbi Washburn
  • Katie Karkowski
    Original Author
    last month

    Thank you all for the comments so far!


    Quite a few votes for moving the fridge. It's helpful to understand the reasoning so thank you for sharing! While the photo herbflavor shared appears spacious, I'm concerned about having adequate counter space for a dish drying rack (never included in staged photos) and baking cookies (cookie sheets, cooling rack, mixer). I need to measure my current space and consider what is minimum vs ideal. I suppose the fridge could go on the left of the U and offset the sink to the left and I would still have a long run of counter between the sink and the stove.


    acm - I considered putting the dishwasher on the left side of the U, but worried about the ergonomics of turning 135 degrees to load it from the sink. I've honestly never owned a dishwasher before so I don't really know.


    Debbi Washburn - thank you for the photos! I mocked up this image, but wasn't sure that I should put the sink that close to the corner. I imagine hitting my elbow on the nearby counter while washing dishes. I'll have to pay attention to how I wash dishes now to see if that's even a concern. It's helpful to see it with the sink far enough in for a super susan cabinet and with one window.


    I agree with everyone that the L shape was not a great option so I will definitely be researching corner cabinets.



  • PRO
    Diana Bier Interiors, LLC
    last month

    Here's a link to a great article on corner storage units for kitchen cabinets:

    https://www.homelane.com/blog/3-space-saving-corner-units-for-modular-kitchen/

    Katie Karkowski thanked Diana Bier Interiors, LLC
  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn
    last month

    Just so you know - there is a lazy Susan in that corner left of the sink and the sink base is 33" wide so you really are not in the corner so much so that you would be hitting your elbow. I have my sink about 3" away from the corner and I don't have that problem.

    Good luck!

  • Buehl
    last month
    last modified: last month

    Another option with the Refrigerator in the "U".


    Work Zones:


    Katie Karkowski thanked Buehl
  • AnnKH
    last month

    Buehl, that's what I had in mind! The OP indicated that the door next to the fridge (in your latest plan) could be moved - a foot would allow for a lower tray cabinet next to the fridge, and turn that 12" upper into a much nicer 24" cab.

    Katie Karkowski thanked AnnKH
  • Buehl
    last month

    Good point AnnKH!

    I should have thought of that b/c I moved in my second layout - although I don't particularly like it, at least not as much as the first. I thought I would show another option, just in case. I'll be posting it next.

  • Buehl
    last month
    last modified: last month

    I worked this one up as well, but, to be honest, I don't like it b/c (1) it has far less storage, (2) crams all three primary. work zones into a small area and would be cramped for more than one person working in the Kitchen, (3) dish storage is problematical, and (4) the MW is deep inside the Kitchen and will barely fit in the 24" cabinet.

    Finally, it will cost more b/c of the need to move at least one door. It does have a larger Prep Zone, but there's very little space for the Cleanup Zone and dish storage is problematic. Here it is for a second option (or third if you also include Debbi Washburn's layout).

    Just to reiterate, I prefer the first one I did, but this is an option as well. Note that it does move the Mudroom doorway.



  • Buehl
    last month

    Here's Layout #1 with the change suggested by AnnKH. However, a foot isn't possible b/c you need room b/w the Refrigerator & Pantry for a decent walkway from the Mudroom. I show 36", but it might be better to be 39". I'm thinking about how easy it would be to bring in furniture, appliances, etc., from the Garage and thru the Kitchen. Maybe there's room via the Front Door & Foyer? Something to think about.



    Katie Karkowski thanked Buehl
  • Lisa T
    last month

    Please center that sink on the window wall. Do not push it to the side and make the window above it luxuriously wide. The small amount of cupboard space you lose for a big window isn’t worth the feeling of space you’ll gain with a larger window.
    Once you have a dishwasher, you no longer need a dish strainer. I wouldn’t be making placement decisions based on that.
    Good luck. Nothing better than a well functioning kitchen.

    Katie Karkowski thanked Lisa T
  • PRO
    JAN MOYER
    last month
    last modified: last month

    Several things:

    We aren't seeing the adjacent dining room.

    We have a baker, who has never had a dishwasher in her kitchen.

    What does that tell me?

    We have someone completely unaccustomed to the convenience of just rinse and load. Perhaps someone used to taking up valuable counter top real estate with a dish drainer!

    I like the Deb Washburn plan, and but for the MINOR inconvenience of the d.w. locale, darn decent!



    I would lose the open shelving and set down spot, the supply /pantry/ and storage seems more important by far.



    She is a mere step away from counter top set down space. A lift up mechanism in a cabinet for a kitchen aid mixer is more important perhaps than some other things. A microwave next to the fridge may be more important and even a drawer micro might be fine.

    Last..... I think we often give TOO much thought to clean up. No matter what I make, from chocolate mousse to a Sunday roasted chicken, this takes mere MINUTES. I have a windowless galley. I have no need for a window over the sink if it WAS there - it's for me a get on with it process! I'd be gazing at nothing as I am a quick rinse and load and get on with it type. I have never owned a dish drainer, and there is virtually nothing these days that can't go in a dishwasher. They are hotter, cleaner, and they are efficient cleaning for everything. The puritanical idea that not running it "saves" you anything is long dis-proven myth.

    Katie Karkowski thanked JAN MOYER
  • Katie Karkowski
    Original Author
    last month

    Thank you all so much for taking the time to give your thoughts and even drawing up plans!


    Yes, this is my first home and first kitchen remodel so I have a lot to learn and I'm not leaving design details up to a general contractor. For context, I've remodeled the rest of the house, done a lot of the work myself (I enjoy it and it's very difficult to find good help in my area), and the kitchen and mudroom are my last rooms. It's been a journey! Family, friends, and the discussions and photos on Houzz have been helpful.


    For fun, here are pictures of the kitchen as is. The layout is almost what's been suggested here (which is why I'm so worried about counter space especially adding two corners). Keeping the sink and window where they are would cut costs. However, I purchased the home prepared to take this room down to the studs if needed. The previous owners used this as an eat in kitchen so the 4th wall was for a small table and chairs.




  • PRO
    JAN MOYER
    last month
    last modified: last month

    It has nowhere to go but up. Turning a corner doesn't reduce counter, it adds counter and a corner with depth.

    Please show the dining room beyond? and add it to your sketch?





  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn
    last month
    last modified: last month

    Keep in mind, you don't have to have the window and sink where it is in the plan above. Your window needs resizing and replacing based on what you have now. The only reason I did the design this way was because you had concern over symmetry if the window was off set instead of centered.

    I do feel strongly about not having the ref in the U. It gives you more connected counter to work on and keeps the room feeling wide open.

    Here is a picture with a window a little larger than your but off center by 4 1/2" in the room - lazy susan on the right corner and a blind base with a pullout in the left. This helps keep some work space between the sink and stove.



    Here is the top view so you can see the counter differences . The window in this plan is 10 " smaller than the other one.



    Hope this helps!

    Katie Karkowski thanked Debbi Washburn
  • PRO
    JAN MOYER
    last month
    last modified: last month

    Two thumbs up, right up above from Debbi Washburn. !! Still plenty of window as well. No need to split stain/ painted.

    If you want a different finish on the opposite/fridge side? Do it there: )

  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn
    last month

    Sorry - just realized the top view didn't load.

    The 2 color thing is just a habit. We sell quite a lot of kitchens that way so I put them in the computer that way from the start - its easy to go back and forth.

    The window shown here is 54" w with 2 1/4 trim.

    Good luck!

  • Katie Karkowski
    Original Author
    29 days ago

    I personally agree with keeping the refrigerator outside of the U. The height and bulk blocks sight lines and dwarfs everything else. I'm thinking a microwave on a shelf and blender on the small counter next to the fridge because I make a lot of quick smoothies for breakfast and microwave leftovers for dinner. I'll have lots of continuous counter space when I want to bake and cook. As someone mentioned, that 4th wall is only two steps away from the sink and stove in the U. I'm still undecided on sink placement, but I'll keep pondering it.


    Here is the dining room. It's a good space, fits a 6 foot table and could fit additional storage. I contemplated putting cabinets or a beverage fridge/bar next to the brick chimney, but I don't drink so I put a small buffet there. Long ago, I decided the wall between the dining room and kitchen is staying. It's a load bearing wall with two forced hot air ducts and electrical in it. The cost of adding a beam, rerouting heat or putting in alternate heat, and doing a mega-kitchen wasn't realistic for this small in-town home.