I know so f'n much about potatoes now. =p

That's a good read with a pros/cons criticism of Voigt while realistically keeping in mind that his ultimate goal is to sell potato products, not promote a diet.

The author fills in the gaps of how one could make it a diet if they had or wanted to, though...and explains fully how/why/etc..

Good stuff...

I've heard that potatoes are worse for diabetics than sugar because insulin spikes even more than with sugar.

Yuck... I like potatoes but maybe only once or twice a week (fries/mashed)... I can see a lot of problems with this diet. Your body needs a variety of foods, not a monodiet... Reminds me of the guy who only at McDonalds for a month and it almost killed him.

Yeah, it's not a good solo-diet.

The author of the article takes the stunt (for marketing) that Voigt is doing and expands on it.

She explains why what Voigt is doing isn't wise, and explains the benefits and down-side (including the diabetic/glycemic issues mentioned by laceyvail) of having potatoes as a main diet staple. Nutrition and dietary concerns are touched on...

She mentions adding greens, bulbs, etc. to her diet as well as the occasional meat.

She also had to do it out of necessity because of a combo of being wheat/gluten sensitive and a touch of poverty forcing her to choose and grow a staple crop.

Some people don't have much of a choice and potatoes are better than nothing at all! Been there, done that.

Good subject though, what staples are easy to produce in small gardens with very little equipment. I have been working on that for ten years and more.

Jolly, I strongly would encourage you to get sweet potato into your scheme. Certainly a fussier crop to deal with in the PNW than irish potato but well worth it since they are much more nutritious.

Also I have the solution for your grain issue: grow grain maize and grind/process it yourself. Few crops are easier or more reliable. Check around and see what heirlooms are recommended for the PNW . I grow 'Hickory King'. Storage is easy in an outdoor rodent-proof crib. For grinding get the Corona/Victoria mill, it's about $60, lasts for years, I've had mine 20 years and the burrs are not even worn yet. Does a great job for grits and cornbread. If you get ambitious you can make hominy, and the same mill works for mashing wet hominy. Same company makes a tortilla press which is very handy.

There's nothing wrong with potatoes. What's bad about potatoes is all the added fats and salt: deep frying and butter and lots of salt that people traditionally put on potatoes.

There's enough nutrition in potatoes that 2 months of nothing but potato wouldn't kill you (as long as you aren't diabetic). They'd certainly get you through the winter, if you were hungry enough.

I can't eat wheat and use potatoes as a substitute for noodles and bread dough in Italian cooking. Lasagna made with sliced potatoes is absolutely delicious. Homemade pizza with french fries as the crust is really tasty.

If a person knew in advance that they would have nothing but their garden produce to live on, there are good things to grow that can be stored through the winter. There is also home canning and drying, if you've got enough warning.

The reason that potatoes were removed from government subsidies is that schools were serving mounds of french fries and claiming it was a few servings of vegetable. It's not the potatoes that is the bad component of french fries, but potatoes should not be substituted every meal for greenery.

The thing is, though, why? Nobody is poor enough in the US or Canada to have to live on just potatoes, or if there are some that poor they are living on junk.

If you can grow potatoes there is a good chance you can grow sweet potatoes, and for sure you can grow maize. So right there you don't have to have only irish potatoes for starch and carb.

If the proposal is that potatoes are the only feasible subsistence crop for some gardeners, I am saying that is not the case.

I wonder how much he spent on food all year?

This is a good history lesson.

On my mother's side, one of our ancestors led ships full of people starving from the potato famine out of Ireland to the US. That wasn't so long ago, and there is plenty to reflect on in that situation and how it relates to today.

Dan

Possibly some of my ancestors were on one of those ships.

One reflection for sure is that it isn't smart to overly rely on one crop, both for dietary and sustainability reasons.

I love potatoes. My favorite dessert is another helping of potatoes and gravy. Honest. Yeah, I know the fat in gravy is bad. The best snack in the world? Peel a raw potato, salt and pepper to taste then slice with a knife and eat. (I just drooled into my keyboard.)

Introduction of the spud is considered a factor in population increases in Europe, as I recall.

Mark

And related, perhaps in name only - the irrepressible sweet potato

According to the calorie counter I use, he would only be getting around 2000 calories per day from that quantity. A non-athletic man should get at least 3000 calories a day, so if he is not *eating* anything besides potatoes, I hope he is *drinking* a lot of good juice.

Nobody is poor enough in the US or Canada to have to live on just potatoes, or if there are some that poor they are living on junk.

That's an ignorant statement. I guess you're turning a blind eye to what's happening here.

I don't know about you, Taz, but I have been all over the continent. What I have observed generally about eating habits everywhere is: junk.

Obviously I don't know what everyone eats in their homes, but guessing that it ain't only potatoes is probably not ignorance. More likely it's correct.

[[[.....If you can grow potatoes there is a good chance you can grow sweet potatoes, and for sure you can grow maize....]]]

That's certainly not true in every area of North America.

Sweet potato is a warm weather crop that has a very long growing season. There are a lot of places where sweet potato won't grow.

I live in an Irish potato growing area and sweet potato won't grow here. Corn (maize) is a very iffy crop, with the weather often not warm enough and the growing season rarely long enough to grow corn.

Besides which, you'd need an awfully large area to grow enough corn to feed a family if you intended corn to be the major component of the diet.

Yes, there are plenty of people who depend upon potatoes. In the past 2 months, I've spoken to 10 senior citizens who are receiving no more than $500 a month in Social Security (2 of them only getting $350). That doesn't leave a lot of room in the budget for food. Right now, I can buy potatoes for 88 cents for a 10 pound bag. That's a budget stretcher, that is, even if potatoes are not 100% of the diet.

Someone whose food budget might be $50 a month isn't buying too many heads of lettuce at $1.75 apiece. Also, with that income, they are not likely living in a place with a nice big garden area to grow their own. Maybe they can grow one tomato plant on their balcony.

And yes, Americans eat far too much junk food, and people who get food stamps eat a lot of junk food; I've seen their shopping carts. However, there are a lot of poor folks who do not get any government assistance.

'good chance' does not equal an absolute. Hence the usage. It is accurate to say that maybe 2/3 or so of the lower 48 are amenable for sweet potatoes, though of course in some of that area some help is needed, like black plastic or similar to warm the soil.

Not sure what constitutes an 'awfully large' area to you; an ear a day per person of grain maize is about all the grain a person would need. Of course few would eat that much. So maybe 150-200 ears per person a year is a lot. 800 to 1000 plants would make a real contribution to a family starch budget. That might represent about an 1/8 to a 1/5 of an acre depending on conditions and would allow some inter-cropping with beans and/or squash or what have you, that is a light burden on the land to provide sustainable practice and maintaining fertility without buying a lot of fertilizer.

"USDA has excluded potatoes from its list of approved foods for the WIC (Women, Infants, Children) food voucher program"

Did they do this because they couldn't exclude processed potatoes? I could see why since America gets most of it's vegetable intake from french fries an potato chips. Strange to not include the actual vegetable though.

Obviously I don't know what everyone eats in their homes, but guessing that it ain't only potatoes is probably not ignorance. More likely it's correct.

Obviously! I've been all over the continent too as if that really means anything and in every city there are retired and disabled and homeless in most. I've had to live on just potatoes(maybe some butter/margarine and/or salt and pepper) for several days in a row on more than one occasion and if I've had to do it I know there's others doing it right now with our economy. I hope it gets better but I doubt it. Tomorrow will tell the story for the near future.

"That might represent about an 1/8 to a 1/5 of an acre"

As someone that has just 1/7 of an acre which compared to most around here is a lot, that would be impossible to achieve.

And I definitely have more land than the average poor person.

I did however harvest over 500 pounds of vegetables from 494.5 square feet of garden this year which is about 2/3 of the recommended servings for two people for one year, and it is still going with leeks and herbs in our homemade unheated greenhouse. It is the first year I have weighed my harvests, but it was a good but not spectacular year. We would have produced 100% of our vegies for our diet, but we lost 250 bush bean plants to bean beetles, the spaghetti squash was a real flop this year, and the potatoes had a mediocre harvest.

If you add milk to your potatoes, you have a nutritionally complete diet.

Bean beetles wiped me out as well.

It's worth mentioning that irish potatoes also require space to grow. I think we are debating two different things in this thread: poverty of space and resources vs crop options to irish potatoes.

Oregon, I realize that climate varies by distance greatly in the PNW, but apparently there are areas where sweet potato production is feasible. Probably including regions into BC.

Here is a link that might be useful: for those weary of spuds

Dan,

The real problem with the potato famine is not so much that the Irish were so dependent on potatoes, but they were so dependent on such limited VARIETY of potatoes. Not all potatoes are created equal, some have different tolerances to different problems, just like any other vegetable. The interesting thing is that our own corn production (commercial, that is) in this country is starting to move towards just a few varieties. We are actually setting ourselves up for a very similar situation, if the right disease, pest, etc. were to sweep across the mid-west.

These types of situations are why home gardeners who continue to grow heirlooms are so valuable to the food supply. The diversity that exists in the heirloom varieties is so wide that each of the hybrids in high level production right now *could* be redeveloped, if the need should arise, although it would take some serious time to get to that level.

Personally, I grow all heirlooms, primarily because I'm a cheap sob, and I like the fact that I don't NEED to buy new seeds all the time. I still do normally, but if I wanted to, I could just start seed saving from ALL of my own varieties, and just subsist from my own plants, from year to year. I don't because I enjoy trying new varieties of tomatoes, carrots, etc. I don't like dealing with collecting seeds from biennials (just too long to wait!), but I certainly COULD, if I had to.

That's why plants that self-seed - obviating the need for collecting and saving - are so nice.

I would hope that anyone who had access to 1/5 an acre for growing food for their family would be eating a much better and diverse diet than just corn or potatoes.

I am assuming that the people who are living on potatoes do not have access to a large garden plot, or else they have health issues that prevent them from gardening.

Incidentally, 1/5 of an acre would be a very large lot in most cities. Less expensive houses in towns can be on lots as small as 1/10 an acre, and that isn't all arable land. Most of it will be taken up by house and maybe garage.

I am assuming that the majority of the seriously poor in this country are living in small apartments, which precludes any gardening at all. That's if they actually have a place to live.

I certainly hope that anyone who is participating on this forum is growing healthful vegetables for their family to eat.

Personally, I do not grow any potatoes or dent corn because they are cheap to buy. I concentrate on fruit and veggies that are more expensive, or considerably better tasting when home grown.

It seems we are learning that that the total alimentary intake of a family can't be grown on tiny bit of space.

Regarding rural poverty, access to the space might not be so difficult. Access to inputs probably is a much bigger problem.

During WW2 my mom lived only on potatos for 2 years. You can do just about anything if you set your mind to. At 84 she looks like 60 and her mind is sharp as a whistle. By the way I have many potato recipes..... :-)

greenhummer-
Can she do a cartwheel? (i'm so kidding!):)

Oregon-

I should rip out my driveway and put in a garden bed! (i'm tempted...its so annoying to shovel and we have one car).

If the potatoes come with prime rib,gravy and a side of brussels sprouts (with bacon)...then i'm all in. Serve it up!

"It's worth mentioning that irish potatoes also require space to grow."

Yeah they do. But I got 58 pounds of potatoes from 120 square feet so ~0.5 pounds per square foot. Now I don't grow corn for grinding, but for sweet corn this year I got 53 ears from 60 square feet, and figure that is about 8 or 9 pounds of corn making for ~0.15 pounds per square foot.

The potatoes came in at 65 pounds from ~8.5 pounds of seed potatoes. It was an okay year. The corn had some germination failures, old seed. I could have gotten away with planting the corn a bit heavier too, maybe another 20 plants in the bed.

I like having them both and grow both obviously, so my husband and I are not reliant on just one, but for me the potatoes give more servings in the same amount of space. They're also more versatile and easier for me to store, so I do dedicate more space to them. I simply need to get the most I can out of fairly limited space.

I'm not suggesting that irish potatoes shouldn't be grown, by any means. They are an important crop. I do think that a lot of gardeners - and farmers - get kind of stuck on too few crops. For any climate where decent yields can be gotten out of SP's, then it hardly makes sense not to grow them. If we want to use irish potatoes as a comparison point, SP has a lot of advantages: superior nutrition, which means one doesn't need to eat as much; SP has a better seed-to-yield ratio, so fewer tuber-pounds have to be reserved for seed; where CPB is a big problem with potatoes, SP likely has fewer insect problems; SP requires far less fertilizer; SP foliage is delicious and very nutritious for people and livestock, whereas of course all solanum foliage is toxic.

Adding up these advantages makes SP a worthwhile crop even in the marginal climate areas like mine.

A non-athletic man should get at least 3000 calories a day

Yes, if he is huge and wants to remain fat. I'm an avid bicyclist and 6'2" and my maintenance is 2625 cal/day.

The real problem with the potato famine is not so much that the Irish were so dependent on potatoes, but they were so dependent on such limited VARIETY of potatoes.

Yes, indeed. They were growing saleable potatoes from hedgerow to hedgerow and not growing for resilience.

Like I said, a good lesson.

I've been all over the continent too as if that really means anything and in every city there are retired and disabled and homeless in most

We grow extra to give away. This is the first year I took our 7-year-old with me and she was so taken by the look on the faces of the folks who took our produce that she wants to plant extra in her little garden too.

Lots of hunger in our country. The rapid spread of urban gardens in the rust belt is also a good lesson for our society, from how we deal with property to how we deal with food for some socioeconomic classes.

Dan

"I do think that a lot of gardeners - and farmers - get kind of stuck on too few crops."

I totally agree. But I also think that goes hand in hand with a lot of people just don't eat a good variety of foods. At least not around here. They stick to the "basic" vegies and pork, beef, and poultry.

My husband before we got together, the man ate potatoes and corn as vegies. That was it. It has taken me almost 15 years to get him to eat a reasonable variety of vegetables. He still will not touch fruits except apples, but I have got him drinking orange juice from time to time now. The majority of the reason he eats the variety he does now is that I work so hard to grow it.

My dad and step mom are almost as bad. Basically their diet is just potatoes, corn, peas, beans, carrots, celery, lettuce, and the occasional tomato and onion for burgers. I tried to giving them my extra greens, but they told me they just threw them out and to not give them any more of that "weird" stuff. They grew their first garden this year, and it directly reflected their limited diet.

This year I grew 24 vegetables, 2 fruits, 3 herbs, and garlic. Next year I plan to add more fruits and herbs.

Sweet potatoes sound like a great crop. Too bad I don't like them. LOL

My granddad referred to lettuce and spinach as "rabbit food". He wouldn't touch either. His daily breakfast consisted of two slices of white bread, jelly, and sugar all topped with a half pint of whipping cream. At 82, he had a mild heart attack and was bitter at my dad and uncle because they limited him to 8 hours of work per day from then on. He still farmed 320 acres. He died at 89 of colon cancer.

With a better diet I'm sure he'd have seen his 100th birthday.

Mark

Mark,

Some people's genetics are just unbelievable. Are you eating right so that you can see your 100th?!

Agreed that good rotation of crops is necessary and that it is good to have as much variety as possible in diets. However, I agree that irish potatoes can produce a great deal of excellent nutrition in a relatively small area. This summer I raised 30 lbs in about 20 sq ft. I planted the plants close and did extra hilling (with wire mesh around, i.e. a bin). This coming summer I plan to do more experimenting to see if we can grow enough potatoes for the winter on our 10' by 20' community garden plot while making good allowance for crop rotation. (I don't believe that we have enough heat in SW BC to grow sweet potatoes).

eaglesgarden,

All 4 grandparents and both of my parents ate similar diets of which spuds were a huge part. One grandad died at 76 (still farming) and both grandmas made 90. My great granddad died at 94. He milked his 4 cows the morning he died. All of my family (except me and 2 siblings) are engaged in agriculture.

Yeah, I broke the mold. Linda (my wife) and I eat a large salad with "tons" of leafy greens from our greenhouse now, every single night. I still love my meat and potatoes and gravy, though. I believe that the vigorous lifestyle practiced by the farmers in my family compensated for the high fat, low greens diet they consumed. Close families, who worked the land together helped too, I think.

Mark

I eat low-carb. All those potatoes would wreck havoc on my blood sugar.

My understanding of why they were removed from the WIC list is that because they are generally a cheap food source, poor people were already eating enough of them. WIC's goal is to help provide nutritional food that people might not otherwise be able to afford.

While I love white potatoes and will surly grow them next year. I think I will try SWC,s in a micro-climate zone I have set up on the south side of the house. While our weather is warm in summer The season is known to be to short for SP,s. What cultivar does well on the northern fringe of the range? I do remember someone growing them a long time ago, but it was just an experiment and I have no idea if it worked or not.
About the white potatoes. My father was advised by his Dr. to eat one potato a day for the potassium when he was 85, He lived to be 90

Curt

Curt, what is 'swc'? Sweet corn?

Though it is a lot of prep and attention, SP can be grown in a short season like yours with black fabric on the ground and under plastic tunnels. The tunnels would have to opened every day and closed at night. The grow period for SP does not have to be long - if one uses early varieties - just hot with warm nights. 60 days from setting out slips will do it if the nights are kept warm enough.

It wasn't a potato blight that incentivized my Scandinavian ancestors (6 great grandparents) to come to America, it was the opportunity to grow potatoes and other crops on their own land. Land ownership, I am told, was impossible in Norway. They came here and settled in Minnesota, North Dakota and Montana on their own homesteaded farms. (I do empathize with the native Sioux.) Even today, most of my relatives own farms and will tell you it's all about the land and a fundamental need to own a piece of it.

Ironically, economic freedom was the faxctor that inspired my wife's parents to emigrate from Sweden to America in the 1950's.

Mark

How is that ironic?

I would agree entirely, as would probably most here, that the first and best safeguard against impoverishment is to have the use of sufficient land. I certainly have the same feeling about that as did our settler immigrant ancestors.

Oops. Factor, not faxctor. Faxctors weren't invented in 1950 yet, were they?

Mark

Nope, not until you could strap your fax machine onto your tractor.

pnb SWC's are Self Watering Containers. They have a reservoir in the bottom and a wicking system to supply the moisture to the root system. I'm surprised you didn't know that! Obviously you write more than you read.

Hi pn,

From my perspective a move from Europe to the U.S. for economic freedom is very ironic and probably not in the way you think I mean it. However, to explain myself would be to "go political" and I choose not to. Therefore, I withdraw the word.

Is there an editing mechanism on gardenweb?

Thanks,

Mark

pn; Self-watering container . I posted earlier but my post did not show up?

Curt

Thanks Curt.

Taz, you may well be correct when it comes to GW. Though I'm not sure if that explains my ignorance of swc's. I do very little with containers, whether writing, reading, or in actuality.

Mark, send me an email if you like.