Are you sure you don't have cold air leaking in around the windows or from the window itself? The air temp next to the windows might be one thing, but a plant placed directly on the sill might be experiencing some very chilly temps right at the root zone. That would explain a very sudden leaf loss.

An increase in light wouldn't cause a plant to drop all its leaves very suddenly. They would first turn brown or yellow or spotted so something, but I doubt they would simply fall off.

Just my thoughts.

Kevin

Agree, too much sun will turn the leaves brown but they won't fall off. There is another problem.

Nick

Agree something else going on. Too much light would cause the leaves to burn, not yellow and drop off. The plants must be adjusted to the new stronger light slowly. You would get sunburned if you went directly to the beach in the sun all day.

They didn't turn yellow....they just fell off. The windows are new and airtight, and I measured the temperature right next to the pots with remote sensors tied in to my master monitoring system. It records current temperatures wherever I have placed the remotes (currently have six - four indoors and two in the garden). It also records temperatures over time which can be viewed on the PC, and minimum and maximum in any period. The plants went from full sun shining directly on them in the room to the windowsill, so I don't think the increase was that much. In fact, in my original post, I kept saying that they were getting pretty much full sun all day as it was, since that room faces south and is very, very well lit all day.

At least these weren't expensive or rare plants. I may just have to buy plants in bloom, enjoy them and then toss them out. I've seen Phals at WalMart for $10, so no more than the price of a fresh flower bouquet.

{{gwi:5901}}

Maybe it would help if you posted photos of the plants? Perhaps then someone could give some ideas about why they reacted so badly.

There is a little problem with Forums in that you have interpret the advice by taking into account where the advisor is living. Now, down the page a bit there is a thread with photos of Phalaenopsis growing on a palm tree. The poster says that the temp got down to 30F. Now i could interpret that bit of info. and take my small collection of Phalaenopsis and tie them to the shady side of a lemon tree. Why? Because I have lived here for nearly forty years and the temperature has never ever dropped to 30F.

They would die because sooner or later the winds will blow from the arid interior of the Continent and the humidity would be too low for a prolonged period.

In a few weeks time as the sun moves further North in the Sky i am going to bring my Phalaenopsis in from their summer quarters (Glass- House) and stick them on top the tropical Fish tank next to a North Facing window where they will get hours of sun filtered by a Match Stick blind. At latitude 33S i would only subject the very tough to direct sun even in the middle of winter.

Anyway, i agree with the above posters about what happens with too much light. Short term you get burnt patches on leaves rather than the leaves just dropping off.

I have to agree with the others in saying that something else appears to be happening. I had the same thing happen to my masdevallia's when I moved them from a dark spot to a higher light spot immediately without transition. While my first thought was the increased light, I realized that something else must be going on as the leaves were completely healthy and did not exhibit the "sunburn" associated with leaves when they get too much light.

I don't know your particular situation as I have not read your previous thread. I would like to ask if you have checked the roots recently, Roots can be a tell-tale sign. I'm wondering if the sudden change in temperature at night from where they were located to the 50F at night windowsill might have done it. Especially if you had just watered or the medium was still moist from a watering.

I don't honestly know. Just trying to throw some thoughts out there for you to chew on. I'm sorry to hear about your potential losses and hope you can revive them.

You stated:
"The miltassia Webmaster has lost two leaves and the plant has started to lean to the side (not leaning toward the light as a plant will sometimes do, just weakened and leaning off to one side)."

That sounds like the plant is rotting off at the base or the roots have rotted and the plant is tipping over. I agree. Check the roots on both.

Kevin

I agree with Kevin. Its the roots.

Jane

Agree with Jane and Kevin, sounds like root rot, check the roots.

There was no sudden or significant change in either light or temperature. The plants are in an unheated sunroom and the night temperature throughout the room is virtually the same, as is the light. Even a couple of feet back from the windowsill, the plants have always gotten direct sunlight on the leaves all day long, and the temperature day and night is the same at the window or a couple of feet back. I have a fairly sophisticated weather monitoring system with remote sensors tied into my computer, as I described above. I have gone and looked at the roots, and the Phalaenopsis roots don't look so good. But the Miltassia roots are healthy and white, with some climbing over the edge of the pot, and the plant is definitely not rotting near the base. It's firm and strong. Only the leaves on one pseudobulb have fallen off on that one.

{{gwi:5901}}

Bill,

Sorry about the problems, I was one of the ones to say "more light". That said, 50 degress on-going for a phal is pretty cold and may cause issues.

The times I've lost phal leaves that fast were either casued by: 1. I was carrying a plant from inside to outside and it got too cold on the trip and in my car, the leaves all dropped within 7 days of putting it back in the house. As I recall, they got a little mushy at the crown prior to dropping. 2. I've lost leaves to fungal problems pretty quickly, but usually there are tale-tale signs on the leaves prior to the drop.

Just how much brighter was it near the windows?

Again as I recall, these are 3 plants that have different light requirements (maybe even temps?), they can't be treated the same. IMO the phal needs less light and warmer temps than the Milt, sorry I can't remember the 3rd plant right now.

Sorry and good luck with the 2 remaining ones,

Bob

Bill if ri stands for Rhode Island and z6b is your zone I can't believe the temps in your unheated sunroom stay warm enough at night to please a Phal.

I have an unheated sunroom attached to my house, well insulated, and the temp is basically the same temp as outside. The same is true with my g/h and I live in zone 6a.

It is impossible for the temp to be the same in sunlight and at night. A simple min/max gauge will show the differential over a 24 hours period.

You might consider investing in a light meter. Direct sun through a window appears intense to your eyes but is around 2000 fcs at windowsill edge but drops by half each foot away from the window.

Brooke

I grow and bloom all 28 of mine in light conditions that vary from and East facing window to Southwest. Sunroom conditions here in Massachusetts. High 50's to very low 60's at night, to 75 tops during the day. Humidity level never gets above 35. Out of the 28 there are 17 currently in bloom.

Highjack,
Did you read my OP and the entire thread?

{{gwi:5901}}

Bill,

I did read the OP and the entire thread.

Did you read my entire post? Did you respond to my post? I asked you questions but didn't get a response from you.

Brooke

I couldn't find the post you refered to in the post at the top of this page so perhaps i missed the rest of the story.

Just some questions and thoughts from an "orchid boot camp" type of grower:
1. what type of water are you using? Has it been treated in any way? I use straight from the well water which is slightly acid and has loads of minerals and the dumb plants seem to love it. i only water in the early part of the day.

2. for certain stubborn bloomers i sometimes use a blossom booster orchid food at 1/4 strength. if i use it at all,lol, i use it after the first new growth of the year, and never when the plant is "sleeping".

3. were your plants actively growing when you made the move to high (southern) light? I agree with others that any move into higher light should be made gradually. With the warmer temps and naturally occurring increased light of spring i rarely find i have to move the beasts because their initiation of the bloom cycle probably started while i was busy hibernating since orchids are much smarter at reacting to lengthening daylight than i am.

4. You didn't mention if you had re-potted into larger pots at any time since you purchased the blooming plants. Increasing pot size can set a bloomer back by forcing it to produce roots. JME many orchids enjoy being pot bound in fact must be in "tight shoes" or the beasts will never bloom.

5. Love them but don't love them to death. In fact benign neglect or in my case active stress (bordering on torture) seems seems to get the beasties to get in step. If all else fails every day move the plants closer to the garbage can.

good luck, kwm

Brooke,
I didn't see a question in your first reply. I asked if you read my entire post because I had already mentioned that I have a fairly sophisticated temperature monitoring system with several remote sensors tied into my PC. Not only will it show current temperature, but also min/max within any period I request, and also a graphic representation of temperature over time.

My sunroom used to be a porch, and has one wall adjacent to the house with former windows between it and the other rooms. It gets cool at night, being unheated, but never is the same as the outside temperature. If it's 10 degrees outside, it might get down to the low 40's but that's about all. Normally it's 50+ overnight, or higher. Especially this past winter, since it's been such a mild one, it hasn't gotten very cold in there at all.

{{gwi:5901}}

In your zone an unheated sunroom would get too cold at night for a Phal to be happy, particularly if the media is wet.

I understand you have a sophisticated monitoring system with several remote sensors tied into your PC. Please place one of the remote sensors next to the Phal pot sitting in front of the sunny southern window. Check the remote sensor twice a day, once during the sunniest time, second time at 2 a.m. You will find a tremendous temperature differential.

If I was making a very educated guess, your Phal probably got crown rot/stem rot caused by water trapped between the leaves and the stem in too cool temps. A sun burned Phal would respond in a different manner.

The most important thing for you to remember, asking advice on a forum will only give you the posters thoughts on the problem, they come with no guarantee the poster is correct.

Brooke

Brooke,
I had a sensor right by the orchid pot. (I said this elsewhere in this thread). In my last message, I wrote that it seldom gets down below 50, unless we get really cold outdoor temps, say single digits, but that didn't happen this past winter, not even close.

I know that advice is just that. I appreciate it for what it is.

But it's all a moot point now anyway since the plant has perished.

{{gwi:5901}}

Brooke, in a couple of weeks i'm going to bring my small collection of Phalaenopsis inside and i have a question re. the optimum daily range of winter temperature. I know the recommended minimum is about 55F but what is the recommended daily max?

Also does gentle filtered sunlight falling on leaves reduce the optimum max a bit?

"But it's all a moot point now anyway since the plant has perished"

Bill obviously the point is if the Phal died moot or not, you saw the need to return to the forum, start a new thread and tell the people who willingly tried to help you they gave you bad advice. I tried to politely tell you your conditions were not appropriate for a Phal.

I will repeat for you - an unheated sunroom in your zone is not the correct location to grow a Phal. Cool nights and non-sunny day - do you have non-sunny days in RI - will eventually lead to the demise of a Phal.

ARTHUR actually most Phals would prefer never to go below 65 but since you and I pay the bills, mine never go below 60 and yours can make do with 55. Grow them dry and water on sunny mornings and they will survive - wet and cold is their nemesis.

Their max temperature is 90 and above that, they close their stomata to reduce water loss. I have no idea if filtered sunlight reduces the max. When I grew Phals inside my house during the winter they certainly got sun from about 9 until 1-ish and were quite happy. In the g/h the Phal area has its own shade cloth so they never see unfiltered sun.

Brooke

Bill,

Don't give up, heck try another inexpensive phal and see about keeping it warmer. I grow indoors during winter, but I use a spare bedroom so it's closer to house temps for me. We set our temp to 64 at night, it gets a tad cooler maybe low 60's at times in the 'grow room'. As I think I said in the original thread, keep trying you'll figure it out.

How are the other two doing?

GOOD LUCK!

Bob

Bob,
The others seem OK. I have bought a new one and it's just finished blooming. It had two spikes.

Brooke, I also pay my bills. Unnecessary comment since at no time were any of my posts unkind.

{{gwi:5901}}

Bill,

Even though you and Brooke are spatting a bit here, be sure to listen to her. She knows her stuff when it comes to phals and 'kids in general.

That said, IMO you did come off a little harsh/accusatory in the first post in this thread and then left with no answers or responses for several days. In the original thread, I did mention that your original temps were too cool for a phal to thrive (it was 55 as I recall), moving them closer to windows in an unheated room probably just took them over the edge as far as temps and such.

Again, sorry for the problems but I pretty sure no one was trying to give you advice so as to kill the 'kids.

Glad to hear you're trying another phal and the other 2 are still going.

Bob

Bob,
I read my original post again. I don't think it was accusatory, just more factual. It certainly wasn't my intent. Don't know about Brooke since I've not posted here much, but she seems to have steered things in an unfriendly direction. I feel bad about that but it's not in my control. I've not responded in an ugly way, so hopefully she will see that.

Thanks for the information and encouragement.

{{gwi:5901}}

Bill,

After 12 years, I'm starting to get the hang of phals... Still my favorite of the genuses. I got on a paph and phrag kick for a year or so, but I've always had about 30-50% of my collection in phals.

Keep 'em warm, watered and out of scorching light and you get 3-6 months of blooms of all different colors and fragrances...

What's not to like???

Bob

Bob,
I like them a lot myself, and as you said, "What's not to like"? I also like the oncidiums, but I don't have a place for those. I had a greenhouse years ago, and I had gotten many plants of various genera that were collected (presumably by volunteers) in areas that were being deforested, mostly Mexico, Central America and southeast Asia and India. They were, of course, species. I did have a few hybrids, Catts, BLCs etc. The collected wild plants were available at pretty low prices then, through an organization in Michigan, which is no longer in existence. I'm not even sure how they were able to bring the plants into the US, but I know it was done according to laws in place at that time. Anyway, one winter we had a terrible storm and it literally blew my greenhouse apart. Everything was lost.......all the orchids, some Australian shrubs and Acacia tree and several bromeliads, all mature and several years old. Anyway, the phals are the way to go now, and fortunately they are not expensive (unless of course you seek out a revered hybrid), and they're readily available. Everywhere from supermarkets to Home Depot, Sam's Club etc. has them for sale.

Good luck with your collection!

{{gwi:5901}}

I have to agree that your post sounded a bit accusatory. "Took some advice and orchids are worse" sounds like you are upset at the bad advice you were given and followed. Something less accusatory would have been "Orchids not responding to new treatment."

The thing about posting a message is that we don't hear the tone of your voice or the inflection. We can only see the words on the screen. You probably didn't realize how harsh they sounded, as I'm sure you were upset when you wrote them, and not with the posters but with the situation.

orchid126,

I see your point that it might sound accusatory to some. Honestly though, I just stated the situation, that I had taken some advice and then the orchids were worse. Perhaps if I had at least said "Took some advice BUT the orchids are worse". But having said that, I hope that members here also see how Brooke steered the thread toward an unfriendly approach. Essentially insisting that my description of the conditions in my sun room were untrue, which implies that either I am stupid, or a liar, or both. She then further made the remark about being a person who pays the bills, implying that I must not have paid my bill to heat the room (?) or some similar convoluted twist.

But I never answered any post in an ugly or unfriendly manner. In any event, the plant is gone. I do appreciate the help that was offered. Meanwhile, a new Phalaenopsis is done blooming and doing well, as is the Miltatssia and the Cymbidiums.

{{gwi:5901}}

Bill, I'm truly sorry that you and Brooke got off on the wrong footing. She is really knowledgeable, always helpful, and well worth listening to.

I didn't read the comment about paying bills as being directed at you. I read it as since she has to pay the bills she lets the temp drop to 60 instead of paying to keep it above 65. Anyway, you learn more from failures than successes.

For what it's worth I said on your original post that if your plants were growing well don't make any big changes.
My feeling is that when a plant moves from a grower to a department store to a home they will shut down until the environment stabilizes. I also think a phal at your temps will survive but the growth rate will slow way down or stop which means longer time between flowers. I like 80 degrees for Phals. The cymbidium on the other hand should like those temps. People in the San Fransisco area can grow them outdoors year round.

Brooke was talking to ME about paying the bills after i asked a question about
winter temps.