Claire, Rose-Tone is organic. I use Purely Organic (which is probably like Mills Magic). A member of our rose society gets tons of it, and we buy it from him. If you want to buy a whole pallet, you can go directly to the producer who is in South Carolina, I think. I can check later. I sprinkle at least 2 cups of alfalfa around each bush and probably more like 4 cups because I wind up covering the whole bed not just under each bush. About the same for Milorganite. I mention the store-bought organic food because they contain other nutrients not found in alfalfa & milorganite (at least in the Purely Organic) like SulPoMag which is something roses need. I can't find that separately except online and shipping makes it expensive. The P.O. is about $25 for a 50lb bag which isn't bad if you compare. the manure compost is very important because it greatly effects your soil structure. I apply composted horse manure at least 2" think. You know the way everything washes through Florida sand/soil, so the thickness is important.

Here is the email address for Purely Organic. I imagine he can also put you in touch with someone local who buys in bulk.
jimsorganic at pbtcomm dot net
(Replace the @ and the . for the "at" and the "dot".) Or contact your local Rose Society.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

I rake up all my leaves and dropped fruit and grass-clippings, and throw them in the beds, also I keep a can in my sink for kitchen-scraps, coffee grounds, tea leaves, egg-shells, etc. for compost.... also used kity-litter from the litter-boxes... also I get Fish Emulsion and Black Cow and Black Hen... as well as Milorganite and Alfalfa pellets, and it goes on thick and heavy.... HD has a few of these but a Feed Store is better-source also cheaper... when you turn a shovel over in the beds and see lots of earth-worms, you know you are on the right track.... if you can access horse-manure like Sherry does it is the ultimate ! sally

Sherry, how much of that Rose Tone do you use per bush? I think I have seen it at Lowes and it was kind of expensive but it depends on how much I am going to need. I will have to look into ordering it in bulk if I'm going to need a lot.
I think I should get a soil test done, I tried it myself with a kit and my soil was neutral 7.0. My soil is on the sandy side but not totally sand, it does have some organic
matter in it. I think a soil test by the ag center will tell me more accurately what my soil is going to need to bring it up to snuff. I know that if the soil is too alkaline, the plant will not be able to make use of the nutrients in the soil. I saw an organic mixture to feed roses on the web,which was your basic alfalfa tea but also using a couple of tablespoons of apple cider vinegar. I wonder if that helps to bring down the pH?
Saldut, I am gathering that with organics you can use quite a bit of it without worrying too much if it is going to burn the plants. That was my main concern, how much is too much.
I thank you both for all the great information.

I forget if I used 1 or 2 cups of Rose-Tone, but it did seem expensive to me especially since I have 96 roses. I often used Holly-Tone because it's basically the same stuff but came in bigger bags and was cheaper that way. I have had the most noticeable good results with the Purely Organic. When I did subsequent feedings during the year, I only use one fert at a time to save money. Even then it took 2 bags of Milorganite to do the whole garden. I think it only took one bag of alfalfa. My soil pH is in the high sixes. I have read that organics will bring your soil to neutral which was a little disappointing since I was hoping for mid-sixes. Did you take your soil sample from 8" deep? (Just wondering.) I can't seem to grow most Hybrid Musks, some polyanthas or multiflora derivatives due to the pH, but it doesn't seem to bother teas and Chinas at all.

I don't know about the vinegar. A soil test would be good. I've never had one. I did a lot of research on nutrients and what organic stuff provides what nutrient. It was all like rocket science to me and getting the individual ingredients was difficult and expensive. Getting everything in one bag is really nice. The compost, leaves, pine straw, etc is very important. It will help your soil even when used as a top dressing. It just takes longer than if you used it to prepare the bed before planting. You're on the right track. I just got an email from a friend, saying she and her DH had literally "picked up" (by hand one at a time!) a truckload of cow patties from a nearby farm, then screened them and put it on all her rose beds today. They were tuckered out but very happy!

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Hello claferg,

For going organic, I'd recommend reading an easy-to-read book by Liz Druitt, "The Organic Rose Garden." It's impossible to give the gist of her book in a post of readable size, but the book can be purchased quite cheaply nowadays. I got mine used at Amazon and it's just like new.

Liz discusses a long list of possible organic ingredients, telling which of the primary nutrients are supplied in each one. I wouldn't go with any of the commercial fertilizer products; just buy a balanced selection of completely natural stuff and it will provide all of the nutrients and micronutrients that plants need as it slowly breaks down in the soil. You don't need to make "tea" of any kind to accomplish this either; Mother Nature will slowly break down your organics a bit at a time with each rainfall. No need to make a science out of this - just read the book and try not to depend on a single organic nutrient.

Exactly which of the organic ingredients in Liz's list you end up buying will depend on availability, cost, and your information regarding your own soil's current status, so it's unlikely that you'll have exactly the same choices for your easiest and wisest selections as someone else somewhere else. And you might decide to vary what you use a bit from year to year, just for the purpose of making sure that your soil gets an especially wide a dose of micronutrients.

With sandy soil, I'd think that the more organics you can incorporate, the better, since your nutrients will be leaching out more quickly with each rainfall than the soil of those of us with clay-based. So ideally, think cheap and as much as possible buy in bulk. If there's an area with clay soil anywhere in your vicinity, you might even check into the pricing on having some cheap clay "fill dirt" delivered to work into your rose beds.

It might take some time for your roses to switch themselves over to using pure organics in terms of having all the help a natural soil's balance of microbia will eventually be able to offer the roses. That is, your soil might take some time to right itself; chemical fertilizers have altered the soil's natural balance of living organisms in unhelpful ways that almost require you to keep adding the chemicals your roses depend on. So be patient, and just keep going with a balance from the listing of organics Liz Druitt recommends.

Our soil has never had chemical fertilizers of any kind applied to it since I made the brief mistake of using some superphosphate on some rhododendrons about 35 years ago. (Then I read an article by a soil scientist in the rhododendron society's magazine that completely undermined that chemical fertilizer idea.)

Most of our plants are breathtakingly beautifully blooming each spring without a drop of chemical fertilizers of any kind. Lots and lots of tree leaves and tree bark is wonderful stuff. Cottonseed meal is great stuff too. And bone meal, alfalfa meal for the roses... And we don't spray poison chemicals to keep them healthy either.

Oh, I almost forgot! I've used cider vinegar on roses. Once or twice I sprayed it on in a diluted combination with hot peppers, garlic, and molasses, a small amount per plant. I've forgotten exactly why I decided to do that - insects/rabbits probably? - but I can say that it didn't hurt anything. The molasses, especially, will eventually make its way down into the soil where it can help some of the microorganisms there to grow, and the cider vinegar helps to balance the molasses. It wouldn't be bad to pour some of that concoction onto the soil; I think maybe I also did that a few times. In retrospect, I probably was just in the mood for babying the roses with a sweet 'n sour dinner treat. :)) One thing nice about organics: you can get a wild notion for a tasty dinner for your roses, and even if it doesn't do anything noticeably wonderful, it doesn't tend to hurt anything either. Another nice thing: if you skip doing what you meant to get done in any one year of organic fertilizing, it's not the disaster it would be with chemical fertilizers; the plants just keep on blooming and don't complain a bit.

Best wishes,
Mary

Here is a link that might be useful: Book - The Organic Rose Garden

I stopped buying Rose Tone because once you get to the 100 roses territory, it is too expensive. If you do alfalfa, cotton meal, bone meal and some other ingredients (which you can buy in bulk) you have pretty much what Rose Tone is. I think Karl had a recipe on here for his home made Organic fert which was similar to Rose tone.

Those in the South East, look for Black Kow composted cow manure (I found it in Lowes, not HD). It is wonderful stuff, black and loamy. I started out with Moo-nure, but this is much better. I also use my own home made compost and will add alfalfa pellets (soaked in water) after I prune.

I also use Black Hen... dehydrated chicken manure, by the Black Cow makers... and it works great... I get my stuff at a Feed Store, it's cheaper with a wider selection than HD or Lowe's.....sally

Horse manure has better than any of the other manures because it has alfalfa in it. I make an alfalfa tea and use fish emulsion and epsom salts on all of my antiques. My Knockouts don't seem to have much of a preference.

brhgm ,that is the way I make my alfalfa tea as well.
I got lazy this year and just sprinkled alfalfa pellets and epsom salts under the roses. I probably should get some fish emulsion as well.
I will be getting plenty of oak leaves soon from my tree and I will probably try and work some of that in as well.

carolinamary, thank you for the link for that book you mentioned, I ordered one and am looking forward to reading up on all this organic stuff.

Absolutely the most important thing to do is get your soil in shape. Plan on adding compost to it every year. Many people love composted horse manure, but composted community yard waste is good, too. Scatter your fertilizer (I use alfalfa), then cover with roughly three or four inches of compost. It doesn't have to be exact. Then on top of the compost put a layer of mulch to protect the compost from being burned up by the sun. Use what ever is cheap or free in your area. I use wood chips from tree trimming services as my mulch, delivered free to my door because they don't want to pay to put them in the landfill. In some places pine straw is very cheap. You can buy fancy bark nuggets but they are not only expensive, they aren't as good because they take too long to decompose. You want decomposition and renewal to be taking place constantly. For heaven's sake don't get that dreadful mulch made up of chopped up tires, an environmental nightmare. IMO it should be illegal. I also don't like the chopped up wood pallets dyed peculiar colors, but it is at least wood, not a chemical soup.

I also get my compost at a very low cost from a local stable. If I load it myself it is free. Too much work. I gladly pay the modest fee to have it loaded.

My own soil is a sandy clay, about 65% sand. Once at spring is the only time I fertilize. If your soil is even sandier you may need to do a second fertilizing because it washes out of sand. However as you keep adding compost each year the texture should improve so that eventually you may not need to.

I also do only a single fungicidal spray at pruning time, either copper or sulfur. In your more humid climate that may not be adequate. You'll have to check with gardeners more familiar with your conditions.

Rosefolly

I love to use alfalfa from the feed store but someone said it has high pesticide residue. Does anyone know if this is true?

Thanks all for all the great advice, I think I will be shopping around for some places where I can get some composted horse manure cheap. My brother used to have a horse but unfortunately he gave it back to his daughter so scratch that idea :)I have been using my oak leaves as a mulch in some flower beds, and it has improved the soil greatly but most of these beds are in the shade and not suitable for rose growing. I think that just using leaves as a mulch is not useful, you need another layer of some kind of mulch on top of the leaves, otherwise they don't breakdown, they just get crispy.

Kitty, I have not heard that about alfalfa from the feed store. (I have been using "horse food" alfalfa for a few years now). Can you remember where you heard that? A link? Thanks. :)

"otherwise they don't breakdown, they just get crispy."

Yup, and blow around/away. One day you've got 3" of oak leaf mulch, and the next day it could be gone - mostly to the gravel paths where it is also not useful. :((

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Chop up the oak leaves with a lawn mower and they will decompose faster. Leaf mold is an excellent thing to add to a garden. You can also put the leaves in a compost bin, which if you are planning to go organic you ought to set up.

I don't use leaves as mulch. I used to keep my chipped leaves in bags and put them down around the roses and then put compost or other mulch on top. This year I'm just putting the leaves in the compost pile. But if yo uleave them in bags and wet them and compress them, you can actually make your own peat. I had a few bags under some other stuff and they became solid blocks of peat. Great stuff for my roses.

sally- where near St. Pete is a feed store? I want to go too:)

I like oak leaves for acid loving plants like azaleas and camellias. The problem with uncomposed oak leaves is that they can cause fungal problems in humid climates. They also decompose slowly if they aren't chopped up. Make sure you compost them thoroughly and they make a great compost with coffee grounds and manure.

Amber, I'm not Sally, but look in your yellow pages under feed stores or farm stores. You should be able to find one near you. We have four within driving distance of us here in Polk County. Or go online and type in your county or city and either one of those phrases and something should come up near you.