Most of the insecticides you find listed in older books have been banned ... that is probably the case with the ones you're looking for.

Connie

Methoxychlor was banned about ten years ago, in part because of suspicions exposure to it could interfere with the human reproductive system. Chlordane was banned in the early 1980's, in part because of suspicions human exposure to it measurably increased the risk of developing certain forms of cancer. Dieldrin was banned in the mid 1980's due in part to its resistance to breaking down once released into the environment, and also in part due to its association with increased risk of developing certain forms of cancer (including breast cancer), certain neurological diseases (including Parkinson's disease), and also in part to its ability to interfere with the human reproductive system.

Did you bury the bud unions of the HTs? Tender HTs have trouble surviving the freeze/thaw of Connecticut winters unless properly protected--putting them an inch or two of soil on them is often the easiest and most reliable winter protection technique. You should be seeing blooms this summer.

There a lots of insecticides that will clear your garden of insects--but leave your roses vulnerable to mites when the weather gets hot. You may want to plan on getting some sort of miticide to control spider mites. Our garden has lots of beneficial insects, which keep the spider mites under control.

Here is a link that might be useful: rose culture in New England

Cindy, I grow over 400 roses and haven't sprayed an insecticide for over 8 years. Over time, I've created a haven for birds and predatory insects that kill the bad bugs. I also have lots of butterflies and bees. Keep in mind the young of a butterfly is a caterpillar.
Not spraying insecticides has not affected my rose garden being the envy of the neighborhood.

There is an active discussion right now on the GW on insecticide use in roses. See the link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Helpful understanding of the risks of insecticide

Cindy, If I had to make a guess, I'd say most of us here do not spray insecticides--or not very often at any rate. There are other ways to handle insects--some very easy and natural. Just ask here if a particular problem develops.

On the other hand, I'd guess a number of us do some spraying of a fungicide for rose diseases--blackspot in particular, but even then, most of us try to do as little of that as possible. However, if you run into a disease-problem, again--just ask here. You will get lots of advice.

It is often possible to have an enviable rose garden without much spraying involved at all.

Kate

As a beekeeper I'm going to say this.Lay off the insecticides. SAVE THE HONEY BEES they're what keep you eating because of pollination. Thanks. pembroke

You don't need to treat with insecticides unless you have a problem so bad like an infestation. The old way of growing roses has changed. As Dublin bay said, the think you may have to be concerned about is black spot, especially with HTs. So you may want to start spraying for this before you get it. Bayer Advanced disease control is a good spray that you will only need to use every 2 weeks to keep your roses black spot free.

Thank you everyone so much for your quick responses.

I visited another nursery this afternoon and found a man who was very well informed on roses and insecticides. He confirmed that chlordane and dieldrin were no longer available and even if they were, soil saturation is an older method and was overkill.
He recommended and I bought the following:
1- Mancozeb wettable powder for blackspot (which he said would be more of a problem than insects)
2- Dy-Syston 2% insecticide granules which can be mixed with rose food. He said it is safe for the bees and other beneficial insects because they are absorbed into the plants rather than spraying in the air.
3- Cygon 2e liquid which he said is really only used in nursery settings but is good to have on hand just in case a heavy infestation of japanese beetles or aphids occurs.

Zak- yes the unions were planted 1" below the soil. You mentioned mites and I asked about that. The nursery man said mite infestations are usually a rare problem in our region and is more of a concern in very hot climates such as in the western states. He told me however what to be on the alert for and if it is bad to get a bottle of Kelthane but I'm going to wait and see if it is a problem before I buy it.

Again everyone, thank you so much. This website is a great forum for beginners and experts to help each other!

Cindy

Hi Cindy,
welcome to a great new hobby. Yes most of the chemicals you mentioned are no longer available. However your nursery man was fairly accurate in his recommendations. One word of advice....if blackspot does become a problem, I recommend alternating mancozeb with triforine with every other application to prevent the BS from becoming resistant to one particular control. Avoid Daconil containing products...they control BS but if the weather gets hot, it will burns the leaves terribly.
Cygon is a very effective for aphids, however for japanese beetles I would use the malathion that you had previously purchased instead of the cygon.
Happy gardening, and I am sure that your roses will be the envy of the neighborhood...good luck!

Spraying Cygon for aphids?? Seriously?? Why not just drop a tactical nuclear warhead in your rose garden instead. Talk about total overkill and total over-reaction to what is a relatively harmless and easily controlled pest insect.

I wonder how many gardeners 20 years ago touted the safety of spraying in a controlled manner, utilizing the very same insecticides and pesticides that are now banned. Some things truly do not change. No wonder most people have zero interest in roses as garden plants anymore.

Total facepalm.

The most serious pest you will probably be faced with is Japanese Beetles. They are nasty.

Aphids can be washed off with the hose, or squished with fingers (wear some gloves if that bothers you).

Save the "big guns" for the JBs--or do like experienced gardeners do and just wait them out.

Consider applying Milky Spore to your property, which kills the JB grubs before they emerge. It will not solve the problem but it may help a lot without hurting anything else (Milky Spore is toxic only to JB grubs).

Merit is going to be more (relatively) safe than any other insecticide. Keep insecticides as a last resort, because they can cause problems: they also kill off the "good" bugs that keep spider mites at bay.

Good luck with your roses. Learning and enjoying the journey is a lot of the fun!

Cindy, it helps to begin looking at insects as beneficial to the overall health of your garden.

One helpful tool is that of a Sacramento rosarian, Baldo Villegas, who has a website on different insects and diseases of the garden. I put the link below. If you can identify the insects in your garden, you can learn to either appreciate them or learn to deal with them in a way that doesn't kill everything else. There are a LOT of beneficial insects. Every healthy garden needs them.

I have learned to enjoy identifying insects; it is a fascinating world out there in the garden. Best wishes and happy rose gardening...

Here is a link that might be useful: Baldo's Bug and Rose Website

Cindy, consider getting advice from people who do not profit from the sale of these products. I don't spray at all, but if you do, be sure to wear the proper gear.

If you have children or if you could become pregnant, check them out. This stuff may stop being affective and need to be re-applied, but it is still in your ground and possibly making it contaminated.

Sammy

Bayer Advanced disease control is more effective for controlling BS than Mancozeb--it is taken up by the plant so you only need to spray the tops of the leaves. But, spraying Mancozeb every now and then is a good idea to kill any fungal diseases that may have an immunity to the Bayer product.

Again, there is no need to be judgmental. People are coming here for advice, not a lecture.

Aphids can be a problem. I have a lot right now and they are gross! Some aphids are so big, they look like ticks. But you don't need chemicals for them. Just break out the hose and spray them off, they will die. Also, if you see lady bugs around, they eat aphids! So unless the infestation is severe, you probably don't need to do anything.

The Japanese Beetles are very destructive and even I've taken out the big guns for them. But again, only if there are so many you can't get rid of them by hand. with only 18 roses, you will probably be better off using the pick and dunk in water method.

Bugs sound like a problem, but you can't get rid of all of them and many are very good for the roses. I would take a wait and see attitude and not use any insecticide. Even in the soil, the chemicals can kill worms and other beneficial insects. When you do find a bug, you can come here and post a picture and people can tell you if it's a good bug, a bad bug and if you have to worry about it. I haven't used insecticides in years and don't really have any insect problems.

I get the impression that the OP is scared of bugs, not what they can do to the plants. If that is the case, they are NOT going to pick off bugs by hand.

I grew up (part time anyway) on a farm in SW GA that used all the nasty stuff. That being said we all ate the food and played in the pond, ate fish from the pond and creeks.....we ar all still here and my grandma is 95, still living on that land. They are bad and toxic, but they have their place as well.

there is a new pesticide called Spinosad. If you can get that it might help a LOT. It even keeps fleas in check on dogs in this flea capitol of the world. the way it works, mammals are immune from its effects and it is supposed to be ok for beneficial insects, only harming the bad guys, b ut I have NO idea how that would work.....

Cindy,

You need to try and get over your fear of bugs. lol. Easier said, then done, I know. lol. Any type of gardening you will have to deal with some bugs.
If you try to kill them all, you will end up with a major imbalance in your garden.
I'm sending best wishes & prayers your way for you to get over your fear!

Cygon was withdrawn from the home garden market years ago, so the nursery couldn't have recommended it, so the original poster is trolling as I suspected from the first.

Lots o' bites. though.

Since you're terrified of bugs, move to a high rise apartment and decorate with plastic flowers. Problem solved.

LOL.I am afraid of two bugs..Bugs..black widows, and brown recluse

the thread title did seem to be like fish bait

I'd be afraid of Black widows and brown recluses to zyperiris. LOL.
So,we were sucker bait. LOL

I find that spider-mites can be controlled with hard blasts from the hose, they don't like water and usually appear during dry spells, and blast them top of the leaves and really hard on the underside of the leaves and they will go away.... sally

oh, well, we got to talk about bugs. that's always fun.

It's a couple of weeks late for an April Fool's joke. Maybe this was in honor of Earth Day.

Just for the record, Cygon is still made and still available. Last year I bought 2 quarts from a commercial nursery.

Just for the record, as of 2007 the label for any dimethoate product, including Cygon, specifically indicates it is not available for home use.

Using a pesticide in a way not permitted on its label is illegal.

(2008, not 2007)

It is possible that the OP was a troll. However, when I first started in roses, I did buy a book that recommend spraying for bugs every two weeks. And it wasn't an old book. So even if people like to play jokes, I'm glad that we are here to help them learn what the real deal is.

I learned a lot about bug control. Thanks, all!
Renee

I was so happy to have initially found this forum and hear from all of you, most have been so helpful and nice.
However, I come back a few days later to update you all and see someone says I'm a troll and another tells me to move to a high rise building...how nasty is that!
To those 2 or 3 people: please do not come to my garden on the days I am spraying, I will more than likely take one look at you and think you are nasty insects and take appropriate action.

People are human cindy john and make mistakes. Please laugh it off and enjoy the forum.

I hope you will forgive me. Now that I understand that you are serious -- please, for your own safety, take advice from the most current gardening publications you can find regarding pesticide use, not from older books.

Also, in my experience, people who work in home improvement and garden centers often claim to know much more about plants and products than they actually do.

If you can find a local gardening club or rose society, you will learn about which pests are common in your area and how others deal with them.

The CT rose society is a great resource--we have lots of experts in all types of rose gardening. We have our meetings in the Pond House at Elizabeth Gardens in Hartford CT,

Here is a link that might be useful: visit our revamped web site

There ARE a couple of people on every forum, this one included, that think that if you haven't been doing this forever you have nothing to offer and if you are new you should be learning on your own....or not bothering them.

I still put in my two cents and ask questions.

I learned a lot from here about stuff that works for me and stuff that doesnt. Keep reading and learn to ignore the naysayers.

And take a lesson from one of my new roses I would have never bought if it were not for this forum. Easy Does It!

{{gwi:251575}}

Hi cindy, I do think since you are a new rose grower, you'll want to see what happens first. I understand you don't like bugs, I don't either. But if you are going to be out in the garden, you are going do come into contact with bugs. Most are harmless. I worry about you spraying every two weeks. And it's not going to get rid of all the bugs. There is a Bayer product that is drench (you pour it into the soil) that works the same way and it only needs to be applied every 6 weeks, so maybe 4 times a rose growing season. I used to use it, but I have too many roses now and it got to be too expensive and too much work. The only thing you'll probably need to be spraying every two weeks is a fungicide.

* Posted by cindy_john (My Page) on
Tue, Apr 20, 10 at 10:49

I was so happy to have initially found this forum and hear from all of you, most have been so helpful and nice.
However, I come back a few days later to update you all and see someone says I'm a troll and another tells me to move to a high rise building...how nasty is that!
To those 2 or 3 people: please do not come to my garden on the days I am spraying, I will more than likely take one look at you and think you are nasty insects and take appropriate action.

Wow, so everyone who doesn't agree with you using dangerous chemicals to "kill nasty bugs" is a nasty bug and should be elminated?! Nice!! And I stand by my high rise suggestion, anyone who wants to kill all bugs "because they are terrified of them" and has no concept of beneficials and no desire to learn, is a gardening menace.

Most rosarians will tell you to never apply an insecticide UNLESS the bad bug is present. Why? Insecticides do not discriminate - they kill the bad bugs as well as the good ones. Many of the bad apples out there have enemies too, and we try to let them work their magic for us rather then loading the already poisoned environment with more stuff. So, if there are no spider mites present, don't spray for them. Wait until you see the enemy before you react. You'll be better off and so will your roses.

Buford, that pic you posted is amazing. Nice green, blemish free leaves as well. What are you spraying with?

Cindy, don't let anyone discourage you from posting if you have questions. There are, as you say, many helpful people on here. The decision to spray is yours alone. No one on here, including the person who suggests you move, is paying your mortgage and your taxes...so go about your own garden as you please. I do agree with Roseman though and would refrain from spraying insecticides unless you actually see them present. For this time of year, keep your eyes open for aphids which tend to congregate of new growth. If you see a large number and since you like to spray, mix 1 1/2 teaspoons of malathion to a gallon of water and give the bushes a good spray, it works beautifully.

First you recommended Cygon for aphids and now Malathion? Seriously?

By all means do what you want, but this is frankly irresponsible. Mixing two tablespoons of dish soap to a gallon of water will get rid of aphids on contact just as effectively as Malathion without the broadscale impact to everything else that comes in contact with your garden. For Japanese Beetles or horrible infestations of rose midge, I can see someone wanting to use Malathion, but for aphids, some perspective would be nice.

If anyone is trolling on this page, it isn't the OP.

If you mean the photo I posted, thank you! It was a bare root this spring to boot. The aphids I had didnt bother it. Guess they didnt like it! I have sprayed only once this year so far and I used Bayer Disease control. I am SURE that after the season gets hotter I will have to start spraying more often, but last year I stuck to a two week schedule after June and stopped in September I think and had no BS problems, which is amazing since I grow so many HTs in this area of GA. The only insecticide I use at all is insecticidal soap and then only as needed. Just dont have an issue. I am in the city limits and I believe the spray they do for mosquitos probly helps a LOT with the buggies.

I had a bug zapper that worked very well.

Love it...

Here is a link that might be useful: Insect killers