Love to, Ken. I really look forward to this post. But I'm really curious, with all the sausage and meat products you make, wow !, you must feed an army!
Just as you said, I tried two places today, and was told that they do not cut up their own meat. OK, drop back and punt, try to find a real meat market. I'm quite rural, so everything takes a lot of driving, but I will put out some requests, and listen for news of any of my neighbors going to do some slaughtering, and get my requests in. I've had offers of 1/2 a pig in the past.
Thanks for the info on freezing and storing pork fat.
I hope this post keeps on going. Again thanks.

Getting a half pig, or finding its source is a great way to get the fat! Here, we have a big steakhouse (HillTop) that also has a butcher shop in back. They also sell chicken and pork products. Sometimes it depends on the person who you ask. Some say they dont give out the fats, while others will try and put out a few small packages every few days. Around here there is also a place called 'The Butchery', and there I can get pork fat and beef suet for free. The beef suet is for melting ino bird seed cakes. Its less effort for them to have to cart it off to a rendering plant. Another supermarket here, Market Basket will put out about 6 packages of pork fat per week. People do buy it, and it keeps longer than the meats too. If you have Costco near you, the two whole, boneless pork butts they offer are great too. They don't cut or trim either, but these are already at about 25% fat. To help, you can use a grain based fat replacer. It will hold onto the added moisture and not leech out. Instead, it seems to set up a slight jel state once the meats are cooked and cold. A fresh pork shoulder will have enough fat on it too, so you can cut as much off as you need to, then freeze it before baking the rest. If you are making a big ham, you can trim off most of the fat before its cured and cooked too. The pork bellies are nice to have, as thats what they make into bacon. Its about the fattiest area left on a the pig. Just make sure none has been cured or brined yet.

Wow ken you are bringing back good memories. I had a big steak and potato at the Hilltop many times and the Market Basket for grocery shopping. I moved back to TX after 6 years in MA. I lived in Chelmsford MA and used to shop at the Market Basket right at the Lowell line.

Up in Lowell the MB store was very big. Demoulas was bought up by them. Locally, a MB moved into an old Kmart that closed down about 3 years ago. Its big too, and has quite a big customer base, as its always crowded. Around here, the Hill Top has gone down a little in quality, but still get huge lines on Saturday afternoons. The butcher shop out back was moved some years ago to a seperate building, but it was not doing as well, so they moved it back to the rear of the resturant. Today, they actually serve sour cream with the baked potatoes and will also accept credit cards. Neither were honored 20 years ago. I live a mile from there. There is a smaller, but more popular resturant here named- Texas Road House. Anyone with a peanut allergy must avoid that place. Their meat cuts are really big and have virtally no fat. I tried to eat a 1.5 pound steak there one time, but it was just too much. I like the fact that you can actually pick out the steak you want, as they have a big refrigerator case on display. They use a special seasoning/marinade on the steaks. It has a slightly sour taste and has some tamarind in it like a steak sauce would have. I am working o duplicating that taste, and have gotten very close. Thats where you see the big russet type bake potatoes and they get that oil coating and then Kosher salt on the outside before baking. Even the rolls and seasoned butter they serve is good. The rolls are hot from the oven and the butter for the bread has some honey and cinnamon in it.

Wasn't/Isn't there two Hilltop steak houses? One like in Woburn and one in Quincy. We lived in the Quincy area while I was looking for a home to buy but the one we always went to was the one closest to Chelmsford...I think it was Woburn...There were also two market baskets close to where I lived and both about the same distance from my house just in opposite directions. I remember the meat market too.

OT, but important. Since we have you both here, I have a question.

Ruthie, how have you been feeling? Well, I hope.

And you too, Ken. Are you doing better? I hope so.

Jim

Thanks for asking Jim...I'm still in chemo so I have good days and bad days but I hope to finish this round of chemo by the end of January....I hope to be in good shape or somewhat better shape by gardening time...LOL I will start having scans in about 3 months to see if they can find any more cancer...I hope and pray that this chemo and surgery has bought me some time....Thanks for asking about me...

Hilltop used to have a resturant in NH They have one in Weymouth, but I think NH site is closed. They also have a small one at Fenway Park during the baseball season. The original owner had transferred operations to someone else, but once it started losing money, the owner took it all back and closed up most of the off site locations. Woburn has a Marke Basket store in the small Woburn Mall which has been there many years. I shop at the Danvers location as its right near a BJ's.

As to my health, its been slowly geting better, although I still get very winded when I climb stairs and cant do much beyond normal walking without breathing hard. At least I have not had the oxygen level drop as bad as it used to back in August. I had to haul around heavy oxygen tanks and use a plug in oxygen concentrator while I am indoors. Right now, I don't bother with the oxygen much, as my small finger tip oximeter tells me I am breathing ok even if its heavy and hard. Many years ago I had a chemo called Vincristine. It was to reduce my over agressive antibodies from destroying my platelets (ITP). Spent nearly 4 months in the hopspital back then and had to get my spleen removed, which was supposed to fix that problem but it didn't. All I have now is heart bypass issues, partial kidney failure, and diabetes. Also, enough meds to stock a small pharamacy (up to 22 per day).

Well ken you sure do a lot for some one with all those issues. You must have the energizer bunny pushing you around. I hope you continue to get better and continue to breathe better...I know what being short of breath is like with mostly just 1 1/3 lung I don't really expect to beat this lung cancer...it is the rare happening but if I can just eek our a few good years, I'll count my blessings....I'm almost 70 so I'm praying I die of old age before the lung cancer gets me...

Sometimes I feel like that energizer bunny. I have always been a fast walker, but since that breathing issue, its been very hard on me to do much of any physical work. My garden will be smaller next year too.

Hope your not smoking! A good friend I worked with many years ago, was suddenly coughing at work. She was a long time smoker and had seen her doctor after a few days. He X-rayed her, and a big spot was found on her lungs. When they went in, it was very bad. She lived only about a month longer. It was very sad to see such a good natured person have to go through all that. She was an inspector of electronic devices and found some bad things no one else had ever seen or noticed before. My boss at the time called her 'eagle eye' and she helped save a lot of grief after she found these small cracks in ceramic to metal seals. The devices were used by the defense department, and they required a lot of physical and electronic testing, which was my job for many months per 200 piece batches.

No I am not smoking but I did for many years. I suspect that is where my lung cancer came from but who knows. 60 percent of those with lung cancer never smoked. It's a real stigma though because it is hard to even get research dollars for lung cancer cause too many people believe that it's only smokers that get lung cancer and that they brought it on themselves....well I did smoke but I started back in the days when they told us how cool we would look and be if we smoked. No excuses cause I smoked knowing it was bad for me.

My mom started smoking way back when she met my dad. He was in the service and would buy smokes for her at the PX. Yes, in those days it was considered high class. Today, asbestos has been the cause of many lung cancers too. Did you know that all the cars on the roads used abestos in their break pads? It was known as a wonder mineral and was even put in baby powders way back before anyone knew the dangers. Even Johns Mansville had made vinyl floor tiles with added asbestos and to this day, its still on the kitchen and living room floor in a summer cottage we usd to own in NH. Also siding had asbestos too, as did many furnaces and anything that got very hot like stove pads. I even have a Presto vertical broiler (looks like a giant toaster) that has a sheet of asbestos thats visable between the heater elements and the base. I have a cousin who had breast cancer and she still smokes. She still loves them and wants her casket lined with cartons of smokes when she is buried. Worst yet, if cremated whe wants to be mixed into a big ashtray.

Getting back on topic, I just decided to make pastrami out of the top of the round roast I had soaking under vacuum since Friday. It was removed from the brine and then coated with fresh ground coriander, black pepper, mustard seed, and smoked paprika. It should take about 4-6 hours to reach a very slow 150 degrees, as the oven is set down to 170 degrees.

My husband is very interested in learning to make sausage so he is keeping track of all these threads. Thanks so much for your expertise and advice.

Perhaps I missed it, but were there any recipes for turkey sausage?

Bill Bird loves all things pork and lamb, but not his ticker, therefore, ground turkey is the best that I get.

bill...a little farther down the main page you will find the first thread on Sausage making...and I link to it below and there are two turkey recipes by a member close to the bottom...

Here is a link that might be useful: check this thread for turkey sausage

Turkey sausages are easy to make. Keep in mind that the dark meat of turkey has the highest level of cholesterol of all meats though, so using mostly the white meat with a little of the fat and a little dark meat might be fine. Also, there are grain based fat replacers that can take the place of fats and not give you more cholesterol. A breakfast sausage can be made with ground turkey, ground coriander, sage, and black pepper, which are the basics. Oh, also salt, the pickling kind. A grind with a plate that has 1/8 inch holes is the most common. Either flatten into patties, or stuff into edible collegen, or regulaar sheep casings. Cook up a small spoonful and taste before stuffing or forming. Water is also necessary and because its poulry, your going to need very cold ingredients, or use a little Prague powder #1 to help introduce a bit of nitrites in it for safety reasons.

I just finshed making a pastrami about 2 hours ago. It was marinated and injected with a brine, then placed in a large vacuum vessel and filled with the spices and brine. It gets the air pulled out under a vacuum pump and was in the fridge for 3 days. I took it out and started to cook it at about 1:30 today and it finished in a 180 degree oven at about 155 degrees at about 5:30. Its chilling in its liquid right now and should be slicable by tomorrow.

Hello Everyone! I tried posting a few days ago, but don't quite know how everything works yet - so I'll repeat my question.
Regarding homemade fresh Kielbasa, the flavor of the sausage after cooking is not as strong as I'd like. The sausage smells real good (nice and garlicky)before cooking, but it seems to be too bland after cooking.

I'm using the usual spices of garlic, salt, marjoram, and mustard. I've tried pan frying, baking, etc. Any suggestions for a real tangy/zesty Kielbasa? Thanks!

Your question was answered in another thread. To see your posts right after you send them, do a REFRESH of the web page and it will show you your latest post.

Here is a link that might be useful: Other sausge making post.

In my search for pork fat to mix with my venison to make different kinds of sausage, I located a source for pork trimming which looks like 90% fat. It comes frozen in a 60 lb box for $35. My question is if I cut it into smaller chunks and vac seal them, how long will it keep frozen ?
Ken had stated in a previous post that it can be thawed and refroze, But I was wondering about a time limit ?

No limit for storage time. You can partially thaw and resize the batch into smaller amounts. Weighing them prior to bagging can help to give you accurate amounts. Pork fat has nothing in it that will turn rancid or spoil at freezing temps. If you do find any traces of meat in the fat, its OK to lkeave that there too. Some bacon thats been thoroughly cured can last for many years without refrigeration, the same with a cured ham. Because your freezing it, you will have nothing lost in its quality, except maybe a trace of water, which can get through the bags.

Ken, Thanks for answering my question. Being new at this, I value any input. One question tho, any way to get around baking sausage in the oven at temps lower than 200 degrees. I have a sausage kit that was given to me for balogna that calls for 90 minutes at 150 degrees, then 200 for one hour. Since most ovens start at 200 degrees this created a problem.

If your oven is electronic with pushbuttons and has a digital display, check your owners manual. There is usually a way to change the 'offset' from its normal setting. My oven offset can be lowered by setting the offset to a higher number like 30 degrees higher. The oven says 200 on the digital display, but the actaul temp inside would be 170 or lower. Its close enough though, as you start with a cold oven and have it come up to that temp during its warmup. The meat will add mass and make the temp rise slower. Mine can be set to a max of +30 or -30 degrees. Once I am done with the curing I reset the oven offset back to zero. To verify if the oven temp is low enough, I use a digial thermometer and it has a long heat resistant stainless steel probe and armored wire. The curing at that low 150-170 degrees is to trigger the nitrites into creating its necessary function slowly. The other nitrites or air cures tend to produce their necessary chemistry with noraml room temps and a long air curing. Another way to get the oven lower in temp is to use a small heat resistant electric hot plate inside the closed oven. Place it at the bottom of the oven and set it on a low temp. Then give it an hour before you measure the temp inside the oven. If its too warm, reduice the hot plate heat a little, raise the heat of the hot platea little if its under 150 degrees. The hot plate will not burn up as your only heating its outer surfaces to a low 150-200 degrees. My oven when set up with the right offset number can maintain the 150-170 for many hours. Because your curing vs. cooking, you do need that low slow temp. When I do air cured pepperoni and salami, they get both types of nitrites, one for heat and faster cure and one for no heat slow cure. This way, the air drying and curing to a hard sausage takes less time. For normal Italian sausages, you don't need that kind of slow curing and low heating.

Thanks Ken, I have a gas (propane)oven, but your second suggestion about the electric grill sounds promising.
I bought the 60 lbs of pork trimings, it was frozen so I cut it into 20 blocks with a sawsall. They vary in weight from 2 lbs to 4 1/2 lbs. They are weighed and vac. sealed

Lucky you. Pork trimmings (fat) are hard to find in any large quantity. Its a very necessary component in any sausage making recipe no matter what other kind of meat is used. You can try using your gas oven with that same small electric hot plate placed at the bottom inside. I would expect at a low settting of the hot plate thermostat control would give you about 150 degrees. You leave the oven off, and use the heat generated by the hot plate. There are smoker cabinets out there too, and The Sausgae Maker supply company offers some ranging from about $150 to $500. Even Northern Tool as a smoker cabinet. I would have trouble with these smokers as I have no protected outside area and temps today outside are in the teens. A smoker needs ventilation.

Thanks Ken, I will experiment with the hot plate and a thermometer for now. A friend who used to hunt at my place sent me a link from The Sausage Maker, They have a smoker model 40800, 20lb cap.thats supposed to maintain a internal temp. of 160 to 170 degrees when the outside temp is down to 5 degrees. Sounds nice, but it's $300, so I want to make sure that I would get enough use out of it before I buy it. As I stated before, my main interest at this time is fresh sausage, this kit for the other sausage was given to me, so when I get my fresh made, I may try it. Again thanks for your help.
P.S. The Sausage Maker is located about 60 miles north of me. I get their catalogs but I never payed them a visit. I will have to make it a point to check it out next trip to Buffalo.

Here is an electric smoker from Northern Tool-

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200152274_200152274

A smoker that uses charcoal-
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200046124_200046124

A smoker that uses propane-
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200184974_200184974

The Sausage Maker used to be owned and operated by a guy named Abe. He had since retired and sold the business, about 20+ years ago, but still offer a good line of products.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lowest price I see for electric smoker on sale

I purchased one of the smoker / grill things linked below, $170, and it's a very versatile piece - this will smoke all kinds of stuff at a time, and both the small fire box and the main chamber can be used as grills.

It takes charcoal, but grilling and smoking uses far less than I'd have thought.

Anyway, good price, reasonably sturdy, and has already smoked gobs of ribs, fish, chicken, brisket, tri-tip, and grilled a few hundred hamburgers. Last fall, I used it to smoke / char a couple of bushels of chili peppers for freezing and sauce - that took a bag of charcoal and an afternoon, it smelled good.....

I'm a happy camper.

Here is a link that might be useful: good out door grill / smoker

Hi Guys, Well I made 30 some lbs of fresh Italian style sausage links and it was real easy and turned out great. But thats when I should have quit. Troubles began when I startrd to make Breakfast Links. First I found that the "small" stuffing tube that came with my vertical stuffer was too big. OK, back in the freezer while I locate and order a smaller tube. Found a stainless 1/2 O.D. one at The Sausage Maker. When that came, I tried it and it was the right size, but those sheep casings were a real pain to work with. Trying to get the ends open to start on the tube proved to be a real test of my patience. Anyone have a better solution ?, any different casings that would work better ? Thanks

The casings are usually soaked in water to remove the salt. I turn on the faucet low cold water and allow the water to trickle inside them and then let that blob of water fall down through the whole length. Once rinsed, the casings sit in a bowl of cold water ready to be slid on the stuffer nozzle. It does take a bit of care and good eyesight to see the ends, most of the time they are not cut off at 90 degrees on the ends, but more like at a bias slant. The other option is to use the dried collagen casings, the edible type. They have one thats slightly over 1/2 inch diamter and if carefully inserting the compressed length, it should fine fine. I also apply a light coat of vegetable oil on my stuffer nozzles for the fresh casings, but not the dried collagen. I have 5 different size stuffing nozzles and also one that is a hamburg patty maker attacment to form 1/2 lb patties very fast. Whats really fun is to untangle a whole hank of the fresh casings once you have taken the easy ends out. The rest is just one big ball. Sausage Maker has two kinds of drild collagen. A brown mahogany color (# 27807) for a look like is smoked, or a clear one (#27800) or a third choice of #27910. They are about 3/4 to 7/8 inch in diameter and are collapes down like an accordian to about 8 inches long. They do NOT need any prior soaking. I like the real sheep casings though, as you get more sausages from a hank at less cost, compared to the collagen.

Here is another choice of mahogany for a 50 foot length, good for 10 lbs of meat at Allied Kenco- http://www.alliedkenco.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/2582
A little smaller diameter-
http://www.alliedkenco.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/1400

And a clear one-
http://www.alliedkenco.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/1232

Here is a link that might be useful: Sausage Maker

Thanks Ken, I will look into what you told me. My biggest problem was as you said, getting the casing started, after that it was a piece of cake, that is until the next one. I suppose if I made the amount of sausage that you do, It would come easy, but I probably will keep the fresh sausage under 75 lbs a year. I had a lot of venison this year to get me started. Besides, I had to bump this up to page one again, can't let it get lost in the shuffle.

After posting about the collagen casings, I did a price comparison. Sausage Maker sells them for almost three times the price at Allied Kenco. I also use another source called Butcher Packer and have seen many products that one of another one site sells for less. I have used dried beer (for Brats) and high melting temp cheddar cheese. Only one of these suppliers has these two ingredients. For me, adding fennel seeds to some seems to always require a lot, just to get a little fennel flavor. I bought a tiny packet of fennel pollen, which is got a super concentrated fennel flavor compared to the seeds.

A local supermarket has whole pork shoulders on sale this week for $1.29 a pound. Usually I like getting the two boneless pork buts that Costco offers at $1.19 a pound. I just needed a small amount of it to make a few dozen breakfast sausage patties as well as the filling for Peking Ravioli (pot stickers, Peking Dumplings). I ground up all the quite lean pork as well as its skin in a fine holed plate grinding plate, its the same used for grinding beef for hamburg. I split the pork into two batches and one has the traditional breakfast sausage seasonings, rosemary, sage, coriander, and ground pepper. Also added some liquid hickory smoke flavor. I added the perfect amount of salt too, as it was just a guess. I taste test a small spoonful by frying it in a small frying pan. I also added some soy protein and some fat replacer and water as it was very lean to begin with. Also, a small amount of phosphates to help it retain moisture and hold together once cooked. The phosphate attaches to the meat fibers and helps to hold moisture. The sample cooked up without any shrinkage. The other ground pork portion will have garlic, ginger, chopped scallions, soy sauce, a bit of Asian spices, and some cornstarch and water chestnut powder to act as a binder. Another local supermarket has the round and square pasta wrappers as well as the bigger egg roll wrappers. The making of Peking dumpings is laborous, but when I make them its usually by the 100's and then freeze them on trays, then bag them up for the freezer.

I was making mortadella 2 weeks ago when my 16 yr. old Oster grinder and stuffer had a catastrophic equipment failure. I rushed to the hardware store and replaced it with a Waring Pro. That was all they had and they said I could return it if not satisfied.

Anyhoo, I've made the mortadella and i'm working on duck sausage. My problem is after grinding, I always have at least a 1/2 cup of diced fat back that collects in the grinder. That never happened with my Oster.

So I'm not satisfied. Anyone have a better sausage maker recomendation? Yes, I freeze, chill, ice everything, except the engine before I grind and stuff. TIA

Mortadella is usually pureed like hot dogs and balogna. My grinder is used only for that, and not as a stuffer. The area just behind the blades and at the end of the auger, is where a little tough fiber collects. I take it out, and rerun it through again with a bit more meat. Some times it collects there again, but is a small amount, hardly worth bothering with. I also added a big fiber washer at the opposite end of the auger where the motor drive is. This applies more pressure to the auger, blades and plate. The big nut holding it together must be very tight too. I never use pork fat back, as that stuff here is salted and will melt away if used in things like salami and pepperoni. I usually ask the stores to offer some pork fat, and freeze it when I have some. For a fresh pork shoulder, I also use the skin. The skin/fat is ground fine, and the meat is course for italian, kielbasa and other fresh ones. Mortadella also has whole peppercorns added as well as small diced pieces of pork fat. I think that if I were to try this with the local fat back, it would melt too much. Admittedly I have not attempted making mortadella, but because is smooth texture is like hot dogs, its a pureed product made in a big powerful food processor.

The source below is the type grinder I use. The Sausage Maker in NY has some various size plates that fit it as well. The actual grinder blade at the front of the auger, I found at another site called Texas Tastes. The unit has a reverse button too, as well as an overload trip if the motor labors a bit too much. Originally, I used the grinder attachment to my Oster Kitchen Center, but needed more speed and capacity.

For stuffing, my stuffer is an 11 pound vertical with a motor unit recently attached. I made a great deal with Weston supply and got a really cheap one that was used as evaluation prior to them offering it to KasabaHouse as a regular product:

http://www.kasbahouse.com/search_results.asp?iLevel=1&txtsearchParamCat=ALL&txtsearchParamMan=ALL&txtsearchParamVen=ALL&txtsearchParamType=ALL&txtFromSearch=fromSearch&txtsearchParamTxt=sausage+stuffer&Submit.x=21&Submit.y=10&Submit=go

Also got a decent meat slicer for cold cuts from Weston. Most cheapos have just 7" blades. The slicer I have is very heavy and with a 10 inch blade and speed control, as well as a blade sharpening attachment. The prices I paid were half of what these sell for now, and I was at the right place and time when I got them. Was hoping for the 12" slicer, but settled for the 10" model. Use it for Canadian bacon, whole, precooked turkey breasts, and any sausages that need slicing like salami, etc.

Here is a link that might be useful: Norther Tool Meat Grinder

I make several kinds of emulsified sausage. Mortadella, boudin blanc, and a shrimp, lobster, leek sausage.

I have to order back fat from a butcher 4 hrs. away. I buy 10 lbs. at a time. This isn't the same as salt pork. None of my hometown butchers will order for me because it comes in 60 lb. increments.

I have a meat slicer and will look into a vertical stuffer. Thanks for the link.

Supermarkets will sometimes have small trimmed pork roasts to sell. A local supermarket puts out a few trays of pork fat, an d when I go there, I buy all they have at 50 cents a pound or less. Getting 60 pounds is fine, just portion out smaller amounts and freeze. I like Food Saver bags for that. These whole pork shoulders and butts sometimes come prepackaged and already trimmed to a point. I like getting the two pork butts package from Costco as they have no bones and have almost the right amount of fat. Pork fat can be frozen and refrozen without any loss of quality or flavor. Isn't what your referring to as 'pork belly', ir is that just the name for bacon. Usually hot dogs, salami, and pepperoni as well as summer sausage are mostly lean beef, with pork fat added. The Sausage Maker in NY has some smaller stuffers. I sold my very old one bought from The Sausage maker many years ago. It was cast aluminum and was for 5 pounds only. Back then, it was only $50. Today, I would avoid the type stuffer that use a lever and curved taper as they tend to not push the meat all the way through. Check out my other mat posts for more sausage making supplies and equipment. Butcher Packer, Allied Kenco, and a few others. My old electric meat slicers were small 7 inch blades. Both were also sold on eBay last year.

Here is a link that might be useful: Another nice site for stuffers of all sizes, plus

Yes, I buy all the pork fat and trim I find in stores. But some recipes spesificaly call for back fat. It's not pork belly which comes from the belly. I make all my own bacon and pork belly confit ( very tasty). Back fat is from the back of the hog, usually with skin still on. It costs the same as pork belly. The fat in mortadella is blanched back fat.

I made duck sausage this week and it calls for back fat. So that's what I use.

I bought that grinder from Northern today. Haven't decided on a stuffer yet.

Let me know how it works out for you. Mine is about 7 years old now and from the photo, the buttons on these are round, while mine has square ones. A cover for cord storage as well as a stoage area for assorted grinding plates is also on the unit. I think it comes with course and fine plates. I use a finer one, and a courser one moreso for my stuff. I do use pork skin, like from fresh shoulders and its ground up like the fat for regular sausages. It mixes right in witjout any problems of becoming tough.

I just got an email from Northern Tool about a sale price on a 5 pound sausage stuffer machine. It looks similar to the very old crude cast aluminum one I had years ago. The Northern model is all stainless steel however and because of that, the piston will make a better seal when its pushing meat through the cylinder. Its a vertical type which I prefer to use. The link below is where its shown and its on sale only a few more days until March 10. Best price I have ever seen for a decent one.

I also have the Northern Tool meat mixer. It makes mixing ground meat much easier to work with when adding spices etc. Many other sausage making suppliers sell the meat mixers for a lot more money. Mine is able to work with up to about 15 pounds of meat at a time.

Here is a link that might be useful: Northern Tool sausage stuffer

Bumping this up to the top.

I just scored 2 whole pork loins at $1.49/lbs (and I'm feeling pretty smug about it too ;). Ultimately I want to turn it into Canadian Bacon for use in cold sandwiches and hot ham dishes, but I still have a lot of reading to do and probably some questions to post here.

For now, I want to cut them up, vacuum seal them, and freeze them. Soo...

I was thinking about buying (2) 6-quart Foodsaver canisters for brining. The loins are about 21" long and the canisters (if I'm reading this correctly) have an 11" height. The loins are bagged and have a "use or freeze" by date of April 5 but I noticed one was leaking so I might not wait for an answer on that one.

Given the above information, should I cut the loins into thirds or quarters? The idea is to pull a couple pieces out of the freezer, thaw them, then brine them but I don't know yet how much additional room I'll need at the top of the canister.

For Ken: Thanks for the oven tip above!!! I checked my range (an electric) and found that it has a bottom temp of 170F and an additional offset of +/- 35F. It should work great for curing. :)

Regards,
Tim :)

My frigidaire electric stove has that offset adjustment too. Its not well known and is buried in the back pages of the use and care booklet. As to Canadian bacon. I prefer to inject the brine while its still in the cryovac package. I simply slice the package in half and inject several times within the open end of the cut packages. Then, I remove the poin and inject further down the side and through the opposite end. I use a 4 ounce Morton injector with a needle that has 8 holes punched into the sides of the needle. Then, its placed in the vacuum canister. The weight needs to be increased about 30% with the added brine so a weight prior to, and after injection is necessary. I am not 100% sure, but Food Saver did have a very tall cansister that looks similar to the tall coffee one they currently sell, only a little bigger around. Here is the largest size they offer on their web site which is part of an assortment- 2 Quart Canister (6" x 8"). Mine is probably 3 ½ quart and 11 inches tall. The 6 quart canister is quite large but you can 'bend' the loin once in there. The narrrow canister use less brine to fill it once the meats in there. I also use a seperate higher powered vacuum pump to get more vacuum. I'm currently working on three piston type vacuum pump units that will accept FS canning jar adapters and canisters. It will come with a water trap, suitable for use with all but the square cornered canister (they crack due to the extreme vacuum). The injected pork loin and brine filled canister is placed in the fridge from about 1-3 days. I also add liquid hickory smoke to the brine and maybe even maple syrup for a little tang. Once its been brined, its ready for baking at that very low temp. The site below has the brine mix and I think its for about 25 pounds of pork. Freezing a very lean boneless pork loin can change its texture some. I would not recommend freezing that cut of meat and then brining and curing afterwards. It can become quite dry and fiberous. You can rebag that 'leaking' loin with FS bag material, it should keep well for up to two weeks in a very cold fridge at 35 degrees. I also add a little of the phosphate and of course the nitrate for it to be safer for longer storage after curing. Once cooked and cooled, I slice it and then freeze packets in FS bags. Good price for pork loins!! When they were sliced, very little liquid is evident. Once thawed after a freeze, the liquid is much more noticable, but the bacon is still nice and moist. Great with Swiss cheese, dijon mustard, and sour rye bread.

Thanks for the info Ken. Looks like I'm going to be busy. All totaled I have about 19 pounds of loin. That sounds like a lot but I eat a lot of ham sandwiches. There should be enough to keep me going until another sale come around.

Right now I have them (both) bagged in FS bags and in the fridge. 2 of the 6-quart canisters are on the way. FS has 2, 4, and 6 quart canisters that can be used either for dry goods or storing items in the fridge. I can post the link if you're interested.

Brine pump, Phosphate, Cure #1, scale, and Canadian Bacon brine mix are on the way too. It's unlikely everything will arrive in time to brine and cure one of the loins this weekend so I'll probably have to attempt both the following weekend. Poor planning on my part but a good lesson.

Questions so far:

Nitrites (Cure #1): I have 3 recipes and 1 FAQ and none of them agree on how much to use. Assuming a 4-5 pound piece of loin, I've seen everything from 1 teaspoon (2 quart brine) up to 4 ounces for a 1 gallon brine. I want to use enough to be safe but from what I've read using too much is a bad idea. How much should I be using here?

Phosphates: Butcher & Packer recommends 6 ounces, by weight I assume, per gallon of brine. How much would you use for 4-5 pound loin?

Sweeteners: Some experimenting with Maple Syrup, Brown Sugar, and maybe even some honey is in order I think. Any suggestions for this? I think you mentioned injecting some Maple Syrup in an earlier post. 1 or 2 tablespoons?

Liquid Smoke: The only thing I've found to indicate an amount was 1 tablespoon for 5 pounds of loin in a 2 quart brine. I'd like something between a "suggestion" and "obvious but not overwhelming". Probably closer to the suggestion. Drop it down some? Any way to test it before I ruin the meat? Perhaps tasting the brine before the Cure is added?

Pumping things up: Where it's listed I've seen an increase of 10% above "green weight". You use 20-30%. Your reasons for this?

Cooking/Internal Temp: The 3 recipes are smoker recipes. They use an internal temp of 142-150. Yeah, they don't agree. ;) You posted an internal temp of 160. A typo? Or do you have a reason for that choice? BTW, preference is a reason.

One last question and I'll stop pestering you. 'Carcuterie' has a 1 gallon Canadian Bacon brine that includes:

1 large bunch of fresh sage
1 bunch of fresh thyme
2 garlic cloves, peeled and lightly smashed

I'm not going to pay supermarket prices for fresh herbs but my dried herbs are relatively fresh. I'm not sure how that combination would go with a Brown Sugar or a Maple Syrup, or even a normal sugar. It seems interesting though. What do you think?

Done for now. Thanks for ALL your assistance! In case it didn't come through, I'm getting REALLY excited about all this. :D

Regards,
Tim :)

I have a very large assortment of FS canisters. Sizes from the 6 qt. all the way down to 1 pint. The smaller diameter ones have domed tops instead of the concave type on the big 6 quart models. I have been buying many of the canisters for several years now and was still able to get another of the narrower but taller ones just for the loins. The phosphates help the pork hold onto moisture, as well as acting as a binder. It MUST be dissolved in water all by itself, and can take several minutes of continual stirring. I usually do it in a drinking glass. About a tablespoon or two of the phosphates are used per gallon of brine, more than that and it can bet a 'bleachy' taste. Once dissolved, its added to the balance of water in the brine mixture along with the nitrite cure #1. A good digital scale able to weigh up to 25 pounds can help too. Mine was cheap and is a godsend when it comes to weighing meats before and after injection of brines. I also use it to weigh the ground pork for sausages, so I can usually figure out how much seasonings and salt to use. I like to inject the brine as much as possible into a loin. Its because its quite dry once its cooked, and with the extra brine it helps or retain more moisture. You can't overdo the injection, as it can only hold so much of the brine. I usually use the same injection ratio for pastrami/corned beef. 4 oz per gallon of the nitrites is way too much!! Sausage Maker site- http://www.sausagemaker.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2
Has the cures and usually needs about 1 teaspoon per 5 pounds of meat. With a gallon of brine, the nitrite can be up to about a tablespoon. Keep in mind the nitrites are only about 30% of the actual pink granuated product, the other 70% is salt. They do this so you can measure more accurately by diluting it so it will not be as difficult to measure. Sometimes the bags of brine mix will include the nitrite as an added packet and they also usually have some basic instructions on how much to add to the quantity of water. Think of the measurements of the total liquid in the brine, and not the weight of the pork loin. Adding maple syrup to the brine is fine. In a gallon of brine, a couple of teaspoons of maple syrup is very small. I would add about a half cup to a gallon of brine. Keep in mind it will make it slightly sweeter, but still has a mild maple flavor when used with a little liquid hockory smoke flavor. The brine mixes usually have salt, brown sugar and some other minor things.

Usually when I bake mine at that low 175 degree oven its about 3 hours in the oven. After 2 hours I raise the oven temp to about 200 degrees. I use a digital probe thermometer to measure internal temp. 160 is the max, 150 is fine too. Follow the instructions on the cure mix for baking etc. I don't have a smoker here so I use the liquid smoke. When I do beef pastrami that can be in the oven about 6 or more hours before it reaches 140-150. If you plan to make some with the added herbs, they would be chopped up in the brine, but NOT injected as they can clog the needle. In that case but don't add the smoke, maple or any other flavors. Sage, thyme, and even pepper, and garlic are OK, but the amounts you mention are still a bit small for a gallon of brine. If your only going to do a 5 pound piece, then make a half gallon of brine and half all the other additives. Never reuse a brine, never mix it and then refrigerate if its not injected right after mixing. For sugar, they use dextrose which holds up better to heat compared to cane. As mentioned, the brine mixes already contain brown sugar. Bake the loing untrimmed, fat side up. I cover mine with foil so it doesn't dry out too much while baking. Your loins should keep for at least 10 days in the cold part of the fridge.

Sorry for waiting so long to post. I usually don't have time during the week to post and I wanted to get some results before getting back to you. The first batch turned out pretty good. It could use some improvement of course but that's always the case (for me) when doing a new recipe. It remains to be seen whether the second is still safe to cure. I'll toss it if the experts say I should.

FYI: The 4 oz. Nitrite per gallon came from the Sausage Maker FAQ. They have to correct proportion for adding directly to a batch of sausage (for casing/smoking) but the brine proportion seemed high. Of course they don't say how much meat is being processed with that gallon of brine. ::shrug::

Anyway, thanks for all your help. If I get the go ahead from the experts I'll be putting the second one into the brine Thursday for cooking this weekend. It has a "Use or Freeze By" date of April 5 and this bag wasn't the leaker (did the leaker first) so assuming it's not toxic it should still be good enough to cure. My plan is to seal the finished product in 1/2 pound chunks then freeze them so I'll only have to take a few days meat out at a time.

Regards,
Tim :)

Once its been made and cooled, you may be better off slicing it prior to freezing small amounts. I thaws quickly. Supermarket fridges are sometimes above 40 degrees and store freezers barely keep ice cream firm. You should be fine. Todays pork is not as sensitive to spoilage compared to 40+ years ago. Even for that, pork is quite lean compared to years ago too. Taking notes and adjusting the salt level in the brine is important. At the SM web site, Prague powder is added a 1 TEASPOON per 5 pounds of meat. That means if you make a salt and nitrite cure brine, you inject that into the meat and also marinate it in that same brine. The brine amount can be up to about a gallon of water for the 5 pounds of meat. If you use a vacuum container that can easily hold the meat and requires less than a gallon of brine to cover it, you should be fine. I would add a little more nitrites to the brine if you go over the gallon. The brine injection allows most of the nitrites to attach to the meat itself. They refer to 1 teaspoo to 5 pounds of meat when grinding meat for sausages, so a gallon of brine with a teaspoon of nitrites is at the low end of the scale, but 4 ounces of nitrites would be for about 20 pounds of meat or more.