Radish77: I have an all-clad 16" x 13" roasting pan. The handles "face" inward. It fits fine, but you have to practice reaching the rear handle when it's loaded with a turkey!

Here is a link that might be useful: All clad roasting pan

Joe - thanks for the reply. Looking at the all-clad it makes sense that it would be smaller since the handles face inward instead of outward on the Mauviel (though I enjoyed thinking of the the French roaster with a Lacanche one day, darn).

Thanks again

Here are some pictures of the 3 colors along with samples on the oak (both pieces are the same stain just different grain and direction) and the slate counter. I tried to take one in the morning sun and another later in the day.

Okay...having seen the colors...the darker blue looks great. Is that the French Blue?

This is the cabinet style.

Here is a link that might be useful: cabinet style

Ailsa - that's going to be a stunning kitchen! I like the dark blue a lot, and the burgundy also looks great to me. The yellow is my least favorite with the oak (though I love the color on its own). The medium blue is right in the middle for me. I just think the darker shades will work better in that overall combination of wood and slate.

Twinklestars - please tell us how many times a day you go out to the garage to visit your new Lacanche ;)

Hi Alisa. What pretty materials! I like both the blues. The darker (French?) blue blends beautifully, but I must like a tiny bit of dissonance in my colors because I think I might prefer the brighter (Portuguese?) blue. How can you go wrong either way?

I like the Portuguese Blue. The darker blue one appears almost black on my monitor. Is that accurate or just a computer artifact? I think that if you want more neutral, perhaps just go straight to black.

Can the fans in electric convection ovens be turned off on some models? all? I haven't been able to figure this out in all of my reading. I'm leaning toward the Cluny, Cluny 1400 or Vougeot.

Thanks!

Ok, so we used our la plancha for the first time tonight - scampi, steak, eggplant, tomatoes. But how do we clean the darn thing?

We are finally getting started on a project we've had on the books for years--a little cottage near the lake. We have a small kitchen, and are planning for a Lacanche. We have a 48" Viking at home, added in a renovation in 1996. Although I hear they are much improved, we would not buy a Viking again, and after seeing a Lacanche, who could?

However, I am concerned about the oven sizes in the Lacanche, and I do not have room for a second wall oven. I do have room for a 60" range, and we are considering a Citeaux. It has a Sully-sized oven, and a vertical electric convection oven and a warming cabinet. Can someone advise me regarding the functionality of the vertical oven? I don't want to flip cookie sheets midway through, and I would like to be able to turn off the convection when I need to. Also, is the larger oven, the Sully-sized one, wide enough to take the All Clad roaster sideways? Experimenting with my small Viking oven has convinced me that I don't want to wrestle the pan with a turkey in it to get it out.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated. We are within a few weeks of final plans and placing the order.

I'm feeling fairly sure that the Cluny would work well for us - I think it fits our space, cooking style and budget best. I've read earlier threads discussing the pros and cons of convection ovens, but I'm curious to hear feedback from any Cluny owners who opted for the convection electric oven - are you happy that you chose the convection? are you happy with its performance? does it work well to balance out heat when baking things like cookies? Can the oven be operated without the fan?

I'm an enthusiastic home cook. I've only had electric ovens, both conventional and convection. I really liked my convection oven for baking cookies and for roasting chicken (the skin was always crisp and fabulous). I'm leaning toward the convection option. A little hesitant about the loss of space in the oven, and even more hesitant if the oven can only be operated with the fan running.

I'm excited to have a gas oven as well, especially for roasting and baking bread, and just to experiment with, so I'd sooner stick with the Cluny than go to an option with one larger oven. A separate wall oven isn't an option because it just wouldn't look good in our kitchen, and besides, most of the time I'm only cooking for the three of us, so two smaller ovens should really be enough!

Your feedback is most appreciated. Like many others, I've enjoyed the many hours I've spent reading past threads.

Hi Radish77,

Have you spoken with anyone from Art Culinaire about the ovens? My recollection is that the Cluny-sized ovens are no longer available with convection. I think the idea was that the fans consumed too much space. It's been a while since I checked, so that may have changed.

Nutherokie - No, I haven't spoken to anyone at Art Culinaire. I'm in Canada and I'm not sure that I can deal with AC - Lacanche lists a Canadian distributor now, and I've emailed them my question. But thanks for the heads up about the possibility of the convection no longer being offered in the Cluny sized ovens - funny, my first reaction was that at least that's one fewer decision to make about the kitchen! It's still an option on the AC website configurator, and in their the spec files they have available, but that may not be current. I'll take a look again at the other options in the 40-44" range.

Thanks again!

You may have different options in Canada. I've also noticed that the UK sites seem to offer different configurations than the Art Culinaire site shows. Good luck narrowing down your choice to exactly what you need!

I understand (from Lacanche) that our options in Canada are the same as yours in the U.S. - I guess because our power supply and safety regulations are compatible (and thank goodness, as I'm sure they're only available to us because of that compatibility - the U.S. is a much bigger market!). Figuring out my ideal range is great fun and at times a welcome distraction from the challenges of real life :)

I just called AC and wanted to post the answer to my earlier questions about the Cluny convection option:

Yes, you can order the Cluny electric oven with a convection fan and yes, there is a switch for the fan so that the oven can be operated with the fan off.

The AC rep also emphasized that the fan takes 3" from the depth of the oven, so they don't really recommend the convection option for the Cluny oven (or at least, they want to make sure that the customer is aware of the impact on the oven depth). Very helpful customer service :)

Thanks for the update Radish! So the Clunies are available with convection! Great. I thought that decision was taken care of for me. I don't think I'd want to sacrifice that much space, but convection IS great for chickens. Argh. Again.

Nutherokie - have you found any posts here with feedback from anyone who has a Cluny with the convection electric oven? I haven't yet, but I don't get as much time as I'd like to search and read! I'm pretty sure I read something about the convection not being as effective in the smaller ovens, but I'm not sure why. I'm not sure that I want to give up the space either, but would be curious to hear how the convection performs in the Cluny (esp for baking cookies - how may racks can be loaded with a small pan of cookies and have them bake evenly?).

I do have limits of space and budget, so I can't get everything I dream of ;) Have you looked at the Vougeot/Volnay? Single sully sized oven plus a warming cabinet. Same cooktop options as the Cluny and only a few inches wider. These look lovely as well, but I am intrigued by two small ovens that really seem a good size for us...

Have you decided on whether you'd go with the traditional or classique configuration for the range top?

Hmm. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone discuss a Cluny convection oven. Some owners have talked about fitting a half sheet pan in the oven longwise, so that pretty much rules out convection. I have read that convection is less necessary with the small ovens since their size makes them less likely to cook unevenly. I looked at the Volnay, but for a while, my leaning has been toward the Chagny 1400. The warming cabinet looks really interesting. If I wasn't hung up on the warming cab idea, I'd just go with the Sully and quit worrying about oven size! My cabinets are now built with the Chagny 1400/Sully specs in mind, so I'm pretty much committed.

The reasonable side of me thinks it's silly to keep obsessing over the ovens. The Cluny ovens are big enough for 99.9 percent of what we cook.

Oh, and as for the range top, I'm planning on the big burner in the middle and the french top over the warming cabinet.

This is second hand information, but I have read of Sully owners who say that they'd happily forgo the convection feature, and one who said that she'd probably get two gas ovens, rather than one gas and one electric. In the case of the convection, it was because it took away space and did not add a much-used or necessary function, in the owner's experience.

kitchendetective - thanks for that feedback regarding the convection feature (love your screen name, btw!). Right now my thinking is to go with the Cluny with one gas and one electric (non-convection) oven, thinking I'd appreciate the oven capacity far more often than I'd really appreciate the convection. Besides, we cook more chickens on the bbq rotisserie than in the oven each year anyway.

nutherokie - I am tempted by the warming cabinet as well. I think I'd choose the Cluny with the two small ovens over the Volnay, mostly because I think that the small ovens are big enough for me, that the pair would give me a lot of options, and because I'm not accustomed to having a warming cupboard so in theory I couldn't really miss it. Years ago I had a dual fuel range with a bottom warming drawer, but I rarely used it - I think the warming cupboard would be much more functional. On the other hand, if I can figure a way to swing the Cluny 1400 (Chagny 1400 looks great too), that would be lovely. Based on how I cook, I don't need more than 5 burners (planning on the classique), so budget wise it's a bit tough for me to justify the added cost just for the warming cabinet. We live in a cold winter climate, but right now I just proof my bread in the living room while the fireplace is on. But I won't be ordering for some time, so I won't rule out the 1400 (and would look at adding the traditional plate over the warming cupboard like you're planning). When do you hope to finish your kitchen?

I've considered the Sully as well, but I really think that for us the oven sizes would be overkill. Right now I have an old 30" range with an electric oven, and I'm often heating it up to cook something that would fit in a much smaller oven. I am drawn to the practicality (for me) of the smaller Cluny ovens, and it just sounds fun to have a pair :)

We've had our cluny for a few years now. It's sort of funny that the oven size question remains as one of the big issues people contemplating a purchase have. We are all so used to those big 30"-36" ovens that it's hard to imagine you can cook in anything smaller! You just need to think about what you actually bake/roast in those puppies. If you do a large turkey several times a year, or cookies every week, then maybe the cluny is not for you. But, for the rest of us, it's perfect.

Joeboldt, I've actually printed out several of your descriptions of your use of your burgundy Cluny to reassure me when I get wobbly! I'm about 98 percent sure I'm going with a burgundy Chagny with warming cabinet.

Radish77, our kitchen (and new house) should be finished before Thanksgiving, so I'm likely to be rangeless when it's done! Thanks to people like Joeboldt, I'm pretty comfortable with the idea of the Cluny-sized ovens. My hang up has been color! I keep waiting for more elements of the kitchen to be completed to make sure the red will go. I know the black would be safe, but I really want the burgundy red!

How long are LC generally known to last? My husband is worrying that in 10 years when we 'have' to take our Cluny out because of it being irrepairable he will have make changes to the cabinets because of the non standard size of ~40 inches. I have read most of the back posts and I am not sure I have seen this discussed. I have written AC to see if they have an official estimate, but it would be really good to hear from actual owners.

Thanks,
Ailsa

Ailsa, these stoves are pretty basic. No LEDs, computers or displays. Just electricity & gas - that's about it. When we bought ours we assumed it would be the last stove we would ever buy.

Joeboldt - I agree, I have the same assumption. How long have you had yours?

I would love to hear how long other folks have had there LC.

Ailsa

Ailsa - I don't have a Lacanche (yet), but have been doing a lot of reading of past threads. My understanding is that the ranges are well and simply made and are straightforward to repair (with no electronics or computers - hurray!).

My questions for Cluny owners:
- what size pan do you use for baking cookies in the (static) electric oven? how many pans can you bake successfully at once (I would plan to switch and rotate my pans)
- what is the lowest temperature on the gas oven?
- have you ever used the storage drawers as warming drawers (when the ovens are on - I noticed that this was mentioned on the AC website, as well as in an online brochure)?

We reviewed our kitchen design over the weekend and realized that our space will function better with a regular Cluny than with the 1400. I'm quite sure that I'd rather have two Cluny ovens than one larger oven with a warming cabinet, so we'll be doing without the warming cabinet option. Still most excited about the Cluny!

Many thanks to the owners who drop by to answer our questions - it is a lovely aspect of the Lacanche experience.

We built a new house four years ago, and designed our entire kitchen around our blue Lacanche Cluny. It looks beautiful, and I love the burners... but definitely do not love the ovens and would not buy this range again. I thought I could live with the smaller ovens, but I don't like them - too much of a hassle -- and combined with the inability to reliably regulate the temperature in either oven makes me regret our purchase.

krobson - thanks for sharing your thoughts on your Cluny. Sorry to hear you aren't happy with the ovens, especially after tailoring your kitchen to the range. Can you tell me more about why you dislike the small size of the ovens? Are they awkward to work with, don't fit your bakeware, not enough capacity - and if it's this, I'd love to know what they're too small for, how much you're cooking, etc. Thanks so much.

Radish77 -- I don't like that you can't put a 9x12 pan in without having to rotate it during the cooking cycle - turning a hot pan is just not that easy. I can't tell you how many times I've burned myself EVEN USING A COOKING MITT. I don't like that you can't have two shelves of things cooking if the items on one of them is remotely high (like cupcakes). I've basically stopped using them and use my Breville toaster oven and my GE convection oven for most things. For turkeys, forget the Cluny. I resorted to buying a huge counter top cooker for that. I did try a turkey in the Cluny, but the constant turning was a nightmare, and the temperature didn't stay constant, and it was just a huge bummer. I like to bake, and roast - which is why I thought having two ovens - one electric and one gas, even if smaller - would be great. Not. So, yes, they are awkward to work with, not enough capacity, and hard to regulate to a true temp. All up all in.... wouldn't give it a thumbs up. Oh, and I did replace my bakeware... but not being able to easily use a 9x12 pan is not ok.

Wow, I've read that many people like the Breville toaster oven, but that you use it over your Cluny oven says a lot. Any idea what you would have purchased instead? Just curious.

If our building budget had allowed it I would have purchaed a bigger Lacanche model - one that had full size ovens - but don't think that would have solved the problem of the inability to fine-tune the temperature. But... to answer the question of what we would have purchased instead.... I have no idea. I was so in love with the look of the Lacanche, read every single post in all the Lacanche threads, and even went up to Washington to look at the models before I plunked down the bucks. I know a lot of people (from these postings) have been able to adjust the temperature so that they can bake/roast to their heart's content... but unfortunately I'm not one of those people.

Sounds like you did even more than I could do before buying (I'm not going to Washington!). I'm sure you already spoke to Lacanche/AC and made sure it wasn't a fixable problem. I won't have any other ovens, and even if I did it would really bother me not to want to use the ovens in my range.

I don't mind turning hot pans (used to a plain old electric oven in a coil top range), though it could be trickier, depending on the size I guess, in a Cluny sized oven. I'm also used to an oven that doesn't run true to temp - current oven runs 15-20 degrees hot - but that's easy enough to handle. But one that is so uneven that you have to turn a lot wouldn't make me happy either.

Okay. Trying not to hyperventilate here. Sorry about your frustrating experience, krobson. I really thought an advantage of the small ovens would be stability of temperature. And here I was on the verge of finally pulling the trigger on my order. Now I'm getting cold feet again. Of course, my cabinets are in and they're sized with the odd Lacanche measurements in mind. Breathe ... breathe ...

Sorry...

nutherokie - remember that there are others here with very positive reports on the Cluny ovens - I hope that they can reassure you/ help you make the best decision for yourself. I am interested in krobson's experience and am trying to analyze the problems raised to see how many of them would be a real problem for me.

I have mocked up the Cluny size as best I can within my own oven (stacking pans to form one side and tried moving heavy pans around, rotating them, etc. It is definitely different from what I'm used to. I think that the trickiest would be a turkey, but we already knew that.

The concerns about uneven temperatures do concern me. Is this the norm? It doesn't seem to be so from what I've read on the forum. Can it be fixed? Is it a question of comparing convection to static ovens? I have an old, inexpensive electric coil top range with a static electric oven. I do turn things midway through baking/ cooking, but I certainly don't need to turn them constantly. And if I did, what would the impact be on oven temperature with all that door opening?

It's all food for thought, and for me I really do need to take the time to think about something that's a splurge for me. I plan for a Lacanche to be the last range I'd buy and I won't have any other ovens.

I'm hoping that others will chime in.

Couple of things.

Krobsan: When you say "rotate" you do mean from one shelf to another, not front to rear?

Regarding oven temp. As far as I know, if you set your oven to 350, it doesn't turn on and off to be exactly 350 all the time. It over shoots, then goes off until some temperature below 350, then comes on again...any stove I've baked with anyway.

If you bake a lot, perhaps the ovens aren't for you. We bake once or twice a week and they seem okay for us. We bake bread, cookies, and roast meats. Before we bought ours we looked at our oven habits and decided they would be fine for us. Your mileage may vary.

Joeboldt - thanks for posting. I have a quick cookie question I hope you can help with:

How do you bake cookies? I was imagining using two of the baking sheets provided with the Cluny at a time, rotating the sheets front to back and switching shelves half way through. I think that this way I'd be able to bake 18 cookies at a time if I put 9 on each sheet. My usual recipes make 36, so that would mean baking two batches and would work just fine for me.

I wouldn't try to put in two half sheets at a time. But I'd like to know if two of the smaller sheets can be baked successfully together, with rotating/ switching. The older threads I read seemed to suggest that one sheet worked well, but I wasn't sure of the sheet size ... I think that baking only 9 cookies at a time would be a little too show for me. I do just fine baking two half sheets in my plain old electric oven now, with the sheet rotation/ switch.

Merci!

Radish77: Actually, I use two half sheets and switch them half way through. I put one on the next to the bottom rack and the other above that.

Joeboldt - that sounds great - thank you! I'm still pretty sure that the Cluny is the range for us and that the ovens are a great size for us. I plan to keep an eye on just what I'm cooking over the next few months to confirm. Thanks also for explaining normal temperature fluctuations in ovens.

You're so right Radish77, I need to keep reminding myself of all the good reviews. Somehow one bad review seems to outweigh a dozen good ones. I guess it's just such a big investment, and, like you, I will not have an auxiliary wall oven. It seems like the Lacanche should be capable of doing everything I need. I've got a Viking convection oven now and I don't really find the convection to be all that important.

And thank you Joeboldt for your patient reassurance.

I appreciate your candor Krobson. It's always better to have more input than less. I know it seems several Lacanche owners do have a fancy wall oven to do the bulk of their baking. That just seems like such overkill considering the price (and real estate consuming size) of the darned Lacanche.

Perhaps I'm just stubborn: I can identify with krobson's comments about the ovens, but would probably buy the range again, just because I love how it looks, am delighted by the stove top and all its possibilities and because I'm not bothered by 1/unreliable oven temperatures; and 2/difficulties in turning a turkey or a big brisket pan. This situation doesn't arise more than 10 times a year--I can live with that, and I don't have trouble turning a 12 inch cake pan. I've learned how best to use the ovens, but am not baking a great deal these days so I would approach something delicate like meringues with trepidation--or, at the very least, do a practice run. On the other hand, I lived in Russia for some years, and learned how to bake in their On-Off ovens, using a wooden spoon to hold the door open to adjust the temperature. You get to know the Lacanche ovens, and I've got to say that having a gas oven is wonderful--great bread, great meats. Variations in temperature are not as critical with this type of cooking as in baking cakes in the electric oven. I'm still happy with mine, and I don't imagine I'll ever have another stove--I expect this to last forever.

joeboldt: By "rotate" I meant turning the pans from front to back. And I agree with all of you who say not to let one negative review outweigh dozens of good ones.

I am redoing my Kitchen and have decided on a la canche chagny 1400. I am really excited, but I have one problem. Color. I am deciding whether I should keep it black, or British Racing Green, or stainless steel. My cabinets are off white or like a cream on the perimeter and tobacco on the island and refrigerator. Any suggestions? I need to order soon!

Hi mb123,

I so feel for you! Our build has taken a year longer than we expected so we still haven't ordered, but now it's time and I'm still vacillating on color. Like you, we're planning on the Chagny 1400. Our cabinets are bone white. We have a large built in hutch in a darkish chestnut color and brick floors. There's no way we could go wrong with the black. It's safe. It's elegant. But I'm yearning for the burgundy red. And there's about a 98 percent chance that the red will win in the end.

I've never seen anyone write that they were disappointed with one of the non-black colors. One poster did write that although her black stove was beautiful, if she were doing it again, she'd go with the bright color she loved.

mb123,

I dont know if you've seen it before, but if you haven't, Orchidluvr's kitchen in the finished kitches blog is a real treat. She has a green Lacanche and it looks perfect with her creamy cabinets and soapstone.

Here is a link that might be useful: Orchidluvr's Lacanche

i'm meeting with an interior designer tomorrow (a friend of my mother's) and he will help me decide on the color. I think I will stick with the black as that's what I have seen in person. I'm worried about not keeping it neutral, this will be the last kitchen remodel for me as in 4 years all the kids will be out of the house and it will be just the 2 of us.
I have seen Orchidluvr's lacanche. just beautiful. But a relative and a friend both have the matte black and are very happy with their choices. let me know if you pull the trigger on the burgundy red one, nutherokie
I will keep you posted on my choice too.

Mb123 -Go with the red! We did and it was the best decision! Black is too safe, same with stainless steel. I did want to change it to the Port. blue halfway through our order, though, b/c most of my house is white with some blues, but it was too late and the burgandy red turned out to be the perfect color! We have white cabinets with soapstone, white oak island with limestone top, a limestone hood and calacutta marble tile backsplash. Really - you won't be sorry with the red! Oh and get the laplancha - its my fav item on the range!(we have the citreaux with one electric, one gas, and hot cupboard)

Wow Sageabf, love your enthusiastic endorsement of the red! Your kitchen sounds phenomenal. I haven't seen anyone else discuss the plancha. Is it difficult to clean? What do you use if for?