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nutmeagan27_gw

house plan - constructive criticism wanted! please help! pic heav

nutmeagan27
13 years ago

Hello fellow home and garden junkies! I've been a long time lurker and forum cruiser and have received immense help from SO many of you on here. We are in the final stages of planning our house and I just want to make sure there is nothing amiss with our new home plan. It's such a HUGE investment, that I want to make sure every 't' is crossed and 'i' is dotted.

Would anyone be so kind as to take a peek at our plans below? If there is ANYTHING that seems weird (or wonderful! :) ) I would love to receive the critique.

Some information:

We are located in Oregon.

The kitchen sink corner/Master Bedroom corner will be facing North.

It is a sloping lot towards the Northwest, thus the angling of our house.

I can embed close-ups of each floor, if that would be helpful as well.

Thank you thank you THANK YOU (whoever you are :) ) in advance!



Comments (11)

  • nutmeagan27
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I should mention a few of my concerns too:

    1. Is the covered porch a good or bad idea? My husband loves the idea, but I'm on the fence. I love love love natural light. The porch will be shading us from some of the hot western sun, I suppose. But I am worried that the great room area will be too dark. Unfortunately, there are very few windows to access from the south or east into the house. We do have a skylight over the foyer, which should help. Any opinions?

    2. Are the upstairs bedrooms too large? Is the kitchen too big? Is the shop area in the garage too small?

    Thanks again everybody. :)

  • flgargoyle
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm not very good at this, but I'll throw in a few observations.

    The kitchen is a nice size. We both cook, so I'm in favor of large kitchens. It would be nice to have small prep sink somewhere.

    I'm a little worried about the eating bar near the refrigerator. By the time you add a stool with someone sitting on it, it could get a little close to the refrigerator door.

    Those are generous sized bedrooms. Who will be sleeping in them? I discovered over the years that once children reach the teen years, they actually need quite a bit of space, what with desks and computers, etc. Are you trying to trim the budget, or are you just worried they are too big?

    Porches can be an issue. A lot of it has to do with your weather. Here in the southeast, a big covered porch is a MUST. They get used almost year-round. Some of Oregon is cool and damp, some is hotter and drier. Our house here in FL has a big porch on the west side. It does shade the family room and keep it cooler, but also darker. It is a trade-off that you must make based on your own life-style and preferences. Not much of an answer there, I'm afraid!

    BTW- I'm a guy; the work shop is MUCH too small LOL!

  • nutmeagan27
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Flgorgoyle - thank you SO much for your input. It is much appreciated! :)

    I love the kitchen, and love cooking, so I'm glad that you reinforced the big kitchen. :) We are going to move the refrigerator to the opposite wall, so that solves that problem. Yay!

    We have one kid and one on the way, boy and girl, so I'm fine with the larger bedrooms too. I'm just paranoid our house is getting humongous! :) I love large bedroom as well. We will be staying in this house for the long haul (hopefully) so they'll get to enjoy them as they grow.

    Where we are in Oregon it is damp most of the year. We are on the west side. But it's temperate so it doesn't get too cold most of the time. Like you said, it's a trade off - I just have to figure out if I like that dang covered porch that much. Our designer convinced us that we would want it for the western sun. I just dunno.... I love the sun too! And we don't get enough of it here... :)

    We'll have to rethink the workshop too now - LOL! :)

    Thanks again!!

  • bevangel_i_h8_h0uzz
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I like your plan a lot! But I'm not so sure about putting it on a lot oriented like yours...especially not one up in the northwest. If your kitchen sink faced south or west, I'd say the design was pretty much perfect but...

    Like you I love lots of natural light and while your plan does a nice job with allowing natural light from two directions into most of the main rooms, I too would be VERY concerned with whether the covered porch will block the light into the Great Room...especially since you're building in Oregon.

    If I'm understanding you correctly, the "kitchen sink" corner of the house faces due north or very nearly due north. That means the elevation that is labeled the West Elevation really faces northwest, not due west. And the elevation that is labeled "North elevation" really faces northeast. And so on.

    Remember that in North America, the sun always rises somewhat south of due east and sets somewhat south of due west. And as you know, the further north you are, the further south the sun appears to be. And in the wintertime, the sun moves even further toward the south.

    Depending on exactly where you are in Oregon, the sun will be something like 21 to 24 degrees to the south at the summer solstice and about 67 to 69 degrees to the south at the winter solstice. Thus, what you refer to as the "hot western sun" is really the "hot westsouthwestern sun" LOL.

    The summer sun won't strike the northwestern or northestern facing windows of your house except, perhaps, at a very oblique angle in the early morning and in the late afternoon. And in the winter time, those sides of the house will be in shadow all day.

    Here's what I recommend you do. Get a big cardboard box to represent the kitchen, great room, and dining room of your house. Cut holes in the sides to represent the windows. Then, cut a small hole in the top that you can look thru and see the interior walls of the box. Try to make the window holes approximately proportionate in size to the box as the size of your windows to the actual house - but you don't have to get them perfect. Take a second piece of folded cardboard (say from a cereal box) and tape it in place to represent the covered porch roof. (It would be good if this piece could be made easy to remove and reattach.)

    Pick a day that is supposed to be nice and sunny and take the box out to your property before the sun comes up. Orient the box so that the edges face the direction your main walls will actually face. I.e., the corner where the kitchen sink will be should point north.

    Spend the day and watch how the sunlight strikes the window holes and lights up the interior walls in the early morning, at noon, and again in the late afternoon. (When looking into the box, be careful not to stand so that you block the sunlight.)

    Actually, unless you currently live a couple of hundred miles or more from your new property, you can actually do this experient at your current house so long as you use a compass to orient the box correctly. The minor changes in latitude and longitude won't have an appreciable affect on the angle of the light entering thru your "window holes."

    But, it is more fun to do at your new property and, if you have large trees that will shade your house, you will want to take them into consideration. Besides, IMHO everyone should spend several full days at their new property before they start building!

    But, back to my point. The sun reaches its northermost path in June (Summer Solstice) so right now (in late May), you will be seeing almost the maximum amount of direct light that will enter your house though windows in the northwest and northeast faces. In the winter, the sun will move further south so even less light will enter windows facing northwest, north, or northeast.

    I suspect you'll quickly be convinced that you should either leave the roof off the porch entirely or that you need to put skylights into the porch roof so that more light can bounce around on the porch and help light up the Great Room.

    I also think that the deck on the "west elevation" will make portions of the walkout basement seem really dark and dismal. You're not going to get ANY direct light into the basement bedroom window because of the rec room bump out and the floor of the covered porch. You also won't get much natural light in the media room. Unless you use very light colored paving stones under the deck so as to bounce around as much light as possible and leave fairly large gaps between deck boards, the area under the deck (especially where the bedroom window is) is likely to feel like a rather dismal cave.

    If it were me, I'd think about swapping the media room and bedroom/bath and adding a window or two on the northeast face ("north elevation"). Media rooms are typically kept fairly dark anyway and a bedroom window in the "north elevation would at least get oblique morning light in the summer time.

    Just my two cents.

  • dyno
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hopefully the experts will chime in but I like your plan alot.

    I'd move the wall oven onto the same wall as the fridge and make the depth of that counter 30" so you can accommodate a full size fridge. Counterdepth fridge is a compromise for esthetics.

    Prep sink definitely in a kitchen this size, preferably with good access to the fridge.

    Upper main bath, the separate toilet/bath compartment is similar to ours but we used a swing door. Pocket doors can be problematic, esp in moist environments. A sliding barn style door may work though.

    Our laundry is 6'x11' ID. Yours might end up even narrower after drywall...around 5'9". Figure out how the dryer is going to discharge (back or RH side) and position it so it can vent through an outside wall. If you have to make room for a rear discharge, the room will get real small, real quick.

    Your master bath is sweet. Wish we had space to do the same.

    Here is a link that might be useful: barn door hardware

  • david_cary
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Off the wall suggestion since your master suite looks the same as ours. Put a door to the master bedroom so that you can close it off if you are a couple that gets up at seperate times. We did this on purpose and I can get up and close the door to the bedroom. Then I have free access to the bathroom and closet without disturbing the sleeping DW. There is also a door to the suite for privacy.

    Since the bathroom is similar to ours, I'd also consider switching locations of things. I'm not sure what exactly to do but the area in front of the tub with the window looks like wasted space. You have a big shower, big tub and tiny toilet area. In my area, most master baths your size (and even some much smaller) would have a seperate toilet area with a door. I thought this was silly until I had one. It is nice to have. Your bath is big enough. We have the tub and shower touching with the toilet closest to the bedroom - our shower is a tick smaller than your with the tub oriented in the other direction.

    If you skip the toilet suggestion, you can use that extra space to create a doorless shower. It is a real maintenance saver (and cost saver). Our last house a frameless shower - quite pretty. Cost us $2000+ for the glass. This time we did a doorless system which was essentially free (more tile and framing but our tile was under budget). And the DW loves no cleaning - I mean it may be the favorite thing about the house. I have never seen a door system that doesn't need significant cleaning although the frameless didn't need as much as others.

    The shower stays quite warm without a door. We have no window into the shower from the outside but one into the bathroom for natural light and also it is open a foot above the walls. Again - not an issue for heat retnertion. It saves you from tiling the ceiling. In the same vein, you show a window into the shower and I can't tell if it is just a small high window or are you showing the world your business. Even if modesty is not an issue (you might be on 10 acres), there is the issue of moisture and the window.

    I totally agree with addressing the sunlight issues. Skylights are generally expensive, potentially leaky, less than idea solutions. Now in Oregon, it might give you needed heat but in any area with a/c issues, it is less than an ideal solution.

  • casasukiya
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A quick clarification about sun angles: At the OP's latitude (probably about 44 degrees), the sun rises and sets about 27-29 degrees NORTH of due E and W at the summer solstice. This horizontal angle(or azimuth) of about 117-119 degrees when measured either side of true south pinpoints (together with the altitude) the exact position of the sun in the sky. Only after the autumnal equinox and before the vernal equinox (i.e. Fall and Winter) does the sun rise and set south of E and W - which means sun striking NW glass will be closer to perpendicular than what bevangel suggests. However, despite the difference, I still agree with his/her other observations, especially in the NW.

  • nutmeagan27
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you all SO very much for everything you've written and all the thought you've put into this. It is so appreciated - two or more heads are always better than one (especially mine). :)

    Bevangel and Casasukiya - Both your knowledge on sun angles is wonderful! I am very worried about the angle of our house, and have been talking and talking to DH about it, poor guy.

    "If I'm understanding you correctly, the "kitchen sink" corner of the house faces due north or very nearly due north. That means the elevation that is labeled the West Elevation really faces northwest, not due west. And the elevation that is labeled "North elevation" really faces northeast. And so on."

    This is exactly correct. Our lot is such that we have a gorgeous view to the west and north. Here's our view to the NW.

    Due west, however, is our neighbor's house. Due south is the main road up the hill. And due East is a big bank of trees and another neighbor's house. The best view, by far, is to the NW, unfortunately. :( It's a give and take for us, because we are definitely committed to this house plan (building permit was just approved last week) and to the lot. But I want to make it as sun friendly as possible... I wonder if we could tilt it to the west more and just sacrifice and look at the neighbor's house for awhile while the trees grow. :)

    If we took the covered porch off, do you think the sun would be sufficient at the angle of the house now, or would you tilt it to the west more?

    Dyno - Good idea with the prep sink. Can you believe I didn't even think about it! For the master bath, I've never heard of a barn door, but will definitely check it out. We went round and round with our designer about trying to get the toilet in a good spot so we could add a door, but just could make it work. We love the rest of it though - thank you for the compliment!

    We'll check into the dryer vent. Hadn't thought of that either...

    David_cary - Like I mentioned above, we went round and round trying to figure out how to block off the toilet area with a door. It was one of the things we really wanted. However, I am not sure I'd like the shower right next to the bathtub. I like the open feeling of the bath area. Maybe we'll put a laundry basket on that wall - LOL. We almost did a frameless shower too, but decided on adding a door for warmth. I like the steam shower effect. However, not cleaning a door is quite tempting. :) I'm the one who would be doing it...

    Thank you ALL again for your input. We have a lot to think about... AK! :D

  • nutmeagan27
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, I built my box model last night, per Bevangel's advice. Now all I have to do is wait for a sunny day... Hmmm.... this might be awhile. LOL. :D

  • casasukiya
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A couple of thoughts:

    Not giving more consideration to where the sun enters your house during different seasons and different times of day (especially for one who loves natural light!!!) is, IMHO, a huge mistake. Siting is forever and can't be changed later. As Bevangel mentioned, you have a very nice plan; however, as oriented on your property, it all but ignores the sun. And (with all due respect to other posters) noodling about the exact wall height for the toilet surround at this stage puts, I believe, the cart way out in front of the horse.

    Capturing a beautiful view (and you have one!) is important, but not to the exclusion of all else. As Christopher Alexander in A Pattern Language (pp.641-643) says under Zen View, "(i)f there is a beautiful view, don't spoil it by building huge windows that gape incessantly at it. Instead, put the windows which look onto the view at places of transition - along paths, in hallways, in entry ways, on stairs, between rooms." If all one sees from most windows is the view, "it will become part of the building like the wallpaper". That is, it disappears and is no longer special.

    So, what to do. I know you are committed to this plan, but maybe it could be tweaked, turned, and/or flipped while still preserving the essence of what you're after??

    Here's an idea to explore:

    1.Flip the plan (i.e. mirror image) and orient the long axis ( i.e. K, DR, Great Room) to the SW, instead of NW as before). Now, during cooler months, all public spaces benefit from morning sun in the K and afternoon sun in all areas. Small overhangs above decks adjacent K and DR will ensure a shady interior during warmer months. And, if sized properly, the covered porch adjacent the Great Room shades Great Room interior only during summer; the porch, at least to some extent, also blocks late afternoon summer sun from reaching deck to E.
    2.K corner window now faces S with glass to both SE and SW. Although probably better to switch SE and SW glass with more on SE side. This allows more morning sun, less afternoon sun, and better balances SW sun entering DR and Great Room. This window switch, of course, requires some rearrangement of K layout.

    Yeah, Yeah, but what about my view!!! Calm down! We're getting there! The view's still available, just in smaller doses now, more like the occasional chocolate truffle (presuming, of course, neither of you is "the whole pound at a sitting" type, which I can't imagine for outdoorsy Oregonians!). Anyway, to continue...

    3.Both Great Room and Study still allow views to NW, but don't gape at it. Instead, you get to savor it while in front of the fire, or as inspiration for your next muse, or with a glass of the bubbly on the porch. With a different window(s), the view might even be had from the soaking tub in Master Bath.

    4.Next, interpose Entry area between house and Garage wing; in other words, Garage wing moves to NE enough to allow room for Entry foyer. Entry to both house and Garage are now from the SE. Entry foyer should/could be recessed to provide shelter from the elements. Main entry door is on SE with window opposite to NW and view. Another door on NE accesses Garage. From foyer, facing SW, one enters house proper with view of DR ahead, K to left, and Great Room to right.

    5.All bedrooms, depending on window placement, receive morning sun, avoid late afternoon sun, and generally will be cooler for sleeping in summer.

    6.Given what appears to be a slope down toward NW, rooms on lowest level probably most affected by this orientation with the Media Room and Bedroom now basement-like spaces. However, this seems a small price to pay in exchange for a sunny interior above. Besides, I'm guessing these rooms are less important to you; plus, a Media Room with LESS natural light might be better.

    Anyway, that's pretty much it in a nutshell. Keep in mind what I propose is an idea, and in no way a developed plan with flaws resolved (if possible) and all details addressed. Changes like these require considerable thought and design work, both of which will delay your project. However, given the effort and expense involved, rethinking your plan and siting is very, very worthwhile. If you do not, I sincerely believe you will regret it.


  • casasukiya
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    3.(addendum) Forgot to mention, Study moves to NE a few feet with new entry door where Main entry door is now shown, perhaps with bookshelves opposite and short access hall to left. (Essentially same for Hobby below). On both floors, this permits more NW glass (in Great Room and Rec Room). Also, might consider a door from Study onto a NW deck if deck were extended around corner from covered porch. This configuration creates more privacy for both Study and Hobby.