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chester_grant

Acting as a contractor for a remodel - critical path?

14 years ago

What is the feasibility of hiring subcontractors oneself in a complete remodel....could one ask the tiler to be the "main man" as they seem to work together with certain other trades....what is the correct order of hiring specialists; is this the correct order and how to carry on the complete list of tasks/specialies until completion (or where can one get the straight scoop?):

1) demolition?

2) plumbing?

3) new green wall board and concrete board for the shower?

4) lead pan for new shower where bath was?

new shower fittings

5) etc etc

6) when does tiling come in?

x) glass shower door measure - installation...

y) new vanity

z) new toilet

Comments (9)

  • 14 years ago

    Some might say it's possible for someone to do their own contracting, but my personal thoughts are that unless you're really familiar with the process, it can be overwhelming and risky. The question you pose is a very good example as to why a you can benefit from a general contractor. The problem is finding one you feel comfortable with and can for the most part trust. I admittingly had a hard time trusting, and that's where this forum became an invaluable resource.

    There are a ton of decisions that need to be made during a remodel of any kind and it's not necessarily reasonable to "expect" a tile person to be the "main man" on a job, unless of course, you're willing to pay him for the extra responsibility. However, most likely that tile person isn't going to have the knowledge, skill set and/or interest in managing a job which is why he/she is a tiler and not a "LICENSED" GC. Besides when something goes wrong, (which should be expected at least once in every job) who are you going to call? The tiler? If you're willing to pay a tiler to be the "main man", why not just protect your investment and hire a General Contractor?

    Originally I too considered the idea of acting as a GC and hiring my own sub-contractors. You can save a good chunk of change by doing it but it's very time consuming and even though we've done a ton of DIY projects on our home, I soon realized there was so much I didn't know. In the end, for us, it was worth paying someone who was better equiped. Now we're just about ready to post some pics, and I have to say, we have no regrets about our decision. Thanks to our General Contractor, our bathroom is not only beautiful but I am confident that all the work was done correctly. He did most of the work himself and we couldn't be more pleased with the outcome.

  • 14 years ago

    I am wary of GCs. In our prior house the GC provided a lousy tiler - tiles which had cutouts on corners cracked whithin a few months - and the plumber reconnected the hot water feed to cold and vice versa in the basement - a toilet in another bathroom cracked from the hot water when it was first used after the reconnect - when we phoned in distress he was on holiday in Nantucket no less - and when having breakfast a bath emptied into the kitchen through the ceiling during its hold-water 24hr "test"....the plumber refused to pay anything towards the ceiling repair and painting....
    And at the end the GC said he had made an arithmetical mistake and needed even more money even after we had paid up on everything he had asked for. WTF.... Shortly after that he moved state!

  • 14 years ago

    chester, it sounds like your last remodel really went bad. Sorry to hear that and I understand why you would be gunshy this time.

    For our whole-house remodel, we hired a construction manager. He is a GC who was willing to formulate this contract with us based upon our knowledge and commitment (time, money, follow-through). It has been a good 'middle ground' for us.

    I am here at the house full-time during the work and oversee all phases. If I were not able to be here, I would have hired a GC.

    Interview several potential GCs and call their references. Ask the references how disagreements were handled and what types of issues arose (everyone has them...don't let them tell you otherwise). Ask them if their project was completed on-time and on-budget. Ask them if they feel that they got 'their moneys worth' from using that GC. And listen very carefully when they share their stories. Many times criticisms, as well as praises, are hidden between the lines.

    Best of luck!

    Sandy

  • 14 years ago

    I don't blame you Chester, especially after what you've been through. I realize there are lots of bad contractors out there, which is why I had a very difficult time trusting our contractor and made sure I was involved in every process. It may take some real work to find a good one but they are out there. We found ours by word of mouth from his peers. When we first started the process, I asked for a referal list of tilers from our local tile store. Then while getting a quote for the tile work, I asked the guys if they knew a good plumber. One tiler referred me to a master plumber whom he said was excellent, but added that if I wasn't treated well, to please let him know because he'd stop referring him if he did a bad job. I called the plumber, who in turn said he knew a good carpenter, a guy he worked with often and he'd use personally if he needed someone. He gave me his number with a similar comment about his referral. When the carpenter came out, we talked for quite a while and as luck would have it, he was a GC. His pricing was in line with all the pricing I had collected so far and personality wise, we clicked, I knew I'd feel comfortable working with him. After verifying his license, we started him out on some smaller projects to test the waters. Nothing major, we widened and installed some new doors, leveled out some cabinets, and demo'd the bathroom. I also talked to him in detail about several other projects we're interested in doing. And his answers were all spot on. His work was perfection and since everything felt right, we went ahead and hired him for the bathroom.

    We're still relatively new to our area and I have used other ways to find a variety of people for different projects. Everything from ads to referral services none of which produced good results. This was by far the most successful way I've found to find good help. Whether you decide to hire someone or contract the job yourself, it may be a good way for you to at least find dependable people as well. Good luck.

  • 14 years ago

    Hi Chester - I self-contracted my kitchen and am now doing the same for my master bathroom. It's honestly not that tough to do and I actually like getting to pick each different person that will be involved in the process.

    Your order is pretty correct except electrical & plumbing can both be done as soon as demo is over and generally the tile person/team will be the ones to install the new wall board or kerdi if you go that route and generally will also rebuild the shower pan. If I can help answer any other questions please feel free to send me a note.

  • 14 years ago

    As one of the posters mentioned, it is not that hard to do. Especially if the space is smaller and you are not moving plumbing/electrical around then it can be done. However, even for a small space, work cannot be underestimated.

    However, depending on the area where you live, it may be difficult to schedule subs as per your preference. (They prefer to work with GC's from whom they get regular business rather than homeowners).

    For example in my area (SF bay area) -- I know homeowners who tried becoming their own GC's who have been building a house after some 4 years (still not finished) due to problems getting subs.

    Another interesting issue that I experienced was that many of the GC's were not ready to take a part of the project due to legal/liability issues. They would offer to do a bigger part of the job, which meant I might have to pay two people for one part (one GC insisted he had to rip out brand new floor installed by my tiler so he could do his own work so he could take full responsibility).

  • 14 years ago

    Are you going to design the bathroom and have detailed drawings? that would help all all the trades to do the job.
    Also are you going to DIY any part of it?
    The more you know what you want, the better the process will be.
    It is important to know the steps within each of the trades. eg. are you using the schluter system?

    Once you have a design, post it here and people can help you along.

  • 14 years ago

    If you feel the need to have a "main guy" to assume responsibility, then you are not ready to GC the job yourself. It's not just about scheduling the trades in the proper order. It's about understanding the scope of the job and the options available if something goes wrong on that job. Being the GC on the job means that the buck stops with you. You are the one who makes the critical decisions that the trades are there shifting about from foot to foot impatiently waiting on you to make. And you need to make the right decision. To do that, you need to be fairly knowledgable and available. If you don't have a job with flexible hours where you can take off and go home when the demo crew finds black mold behind the wall, or an unexpected electrical cable, then you don't have the time to be your own GC. If you can't look at a tile job and see where a subcontractor is cutting corners, then you don't have the knowledge needed to be your own GC. You have to know enough to be your own quality control.

    It's not difficult to schedule in subcontractors. That's the easy part of being a GC. If everything goes right, then you don't have to learn much about the hard part. But, everthing rarely goes 100% as planned. What's your contingency plan?

  • 14 years ago

    Do all subs have insurance? I assume so - but if not then if a GC was hired then he would be responsible for any damage or claims would he not?