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ecogirl411

Running Wiring in no-cavity walls

ecogirl411
17 years ago

Hello,

Anyone have any suggestions for how to run new wiring in walls constructed from plaster directly on brick (typical city rowhome construction)? This is for a total kitchen renovation where I would rather not surface mount for a more seamless look. Can I use armored cabel embedded into a channel cut into the wall? If so, how do I deal with installing the boxes and switches??

Also can I put on the same circuit wall outlets for a gas range and the refrigerator?? Can they be put on any of the other circuits in the kitchen (e.g., lighting)?

Thanks!

Comments (10)

  • thyron
    17 years ago

    there is no way to mount a box without a cavity for the box to sit back into except for surface mounting. so even if you could get a channel you need a deeper area for the box cause you need room for plug and wires. if you are remodelling the whole kitchen you should tear out the plaster and frame the wall out. its alot of work but you can buy very shallow boxes that might be about an inch and a half thick, thats all the farther you would have to frame it out. also code requires you to have two 20 amp circuits in your kitchen. i would put the fridge on one circuit and the gas range on the other.

  • itsunclebill
    17 years ago

    I agree that the wall should be framed out. This type of construction doesn't lend itself well to electrical installations. Even if you do cut and cover a trench with conduit, a 1 1/2 inch deep box is only large enough for 1 set of wires and would prevent feeding another box downstream. Holes deep enough for large enough boxes will require removal of significant chunks of brick. Framing out 1 1/2 inches would allow using 1 1/2 inch deep 4 square boxes with mud rings to give you more room for circuits and devices.

    If at all possible the refrigerator should be on it's own circuit, as should a dishwasher, disposer, and microwave more than 700-800 watts.

    If you can stand to loose 2" per wall in width on the outside walls believe me, framing out is the way to go. If you don't want the "look" of drywall use thinner drywall and have it skim coated with plaster.

  • brickeyee
    17 years ago

    You can always add a built out baseboard with adequate room for the wiring and boxes.
    You add enough thickness to fit decent depth boxes with the plaster removed to bare brick at the box location.
    If the plaster is 1 inch thick the face of the baseboard would be 2.5 inches out to allow 3.5 inch deep boxes.
    The use of outside box clamps avoids the wire deduction for the internal clamps, and the added depth required for the clamp screws behind the boxes.
    Laying the boxes on their side reduces the height of the baseboard required.

  • thyron
    17 years ago

    i have done this same thing in houses before. just anchor 2x4s to the brick with the broad side up against the the brick. you can buy pocket boxes which give you more room in the box cause they have little doors that you can close once you get the wires in the box and the dry wall covers the doors. make sure you leave the box hanging off of the edge of the stud to compensate for the thickness of the drywall.

  • itsunclebill
    17 years ago

    Do you install those baseboards on counter tops Brick? I would agree with you in other rooms.

    UNK

  • ecogirl411
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Okay, thanks for the info....another question that came up yesterday......

    At the top of the cellar stairs I had a switch (wired with a 3-wire) to control the light at the top of the stairs and some lights in the basement. The switch was between the two sets of lights and there is no switch in the basement. If I remember right, the black the red were attached to the same screw. Anyway, I wanted to add two outlets to the line at the top of the stairs and so I wired up the outlets first with the 3-wire, then converted to 2-wire for the switch, then the light...not surprisingly only the light at the top of the stairs goes on and off...and the outlets are always hot and the downstairs lights are always on. Any thoughts on how to fix this so the switch again controls the basement lights and the outlets are always hot?? I don't see this scenario in my wiring book.....thanks.

  • brickeyee
    17 years ago

    Plugmold can be used under the upper cabinets.
    Either facing down, on the wall tight against the bottom of the upper cabinets, or on a beveled strip facing down at 45 degrees or so.

    The last time I had to deal with this type of problem was in an 1820s stone house.
    Not even plaster on the stone walls, and an owner that did not want a bunch of commercial wiremold all over his house.
    The exposed framing all had a quirk bead hand run.
    Some period style baseboard was made up, and then all the outlets mounted in the baseboard.
    By using 4x4 boxes the fill rules can be followed while using a very shallow box. The back of the baseboard was routed out and plaster rings used to mount the individual receptacles to further reduce the depth stack up.

  • pjb999
    17 years ago

    I thought there always had to be a switch for stair lights at the top AND the bottom.

    I would have thought much of the wiring, if it's armoured and surface mounted, could be concealed behing the cabinets, and you might even be able to do something nifty like mount the outlets for the counter, under the overhead cupboards?

  • bigbird_1
    17 years ago

    "I thought there always had to be a switch for stair lights at the top AND the bottom."

    Applies to new construction if more than 4 steps on the stairs. For existing wiring, not required but recommended.

  • bigbird_1
    17 years ago

    Just checked the CEC book. "If the stairway going to the basement has 4 or more risers but the basement is a dungeon like space which has no finished area and no egress other than the one stairway leading into it, then only one switch is required".
    Rule 30-504 from the CEC.