Maybe a lot of your problem this year and maybe last year was Rose Midge? And partly your cold winters...

Yea. I have always had rose midge. But when there are a million blooms rose midge on one or two doesn't matter. Last winter we had a north wind for so many days.

When one goes from 5 canes down to one cane after a harsh winter, bloom-production ends with 1/5. Cornell University has an excellent article on growing-roses, including stopping fertilizer after July 15, let roses develop rose-hips (better winter-survival), and good description of rose midge: "Buds or shoots blacken or die." That what happened to Golden Cel. early spring, after my experiment of topping that with oatmeal and potting soil (perfect moisture for midge germination). Below is Cornell link on rose diseases:

"http://www.gardening.cornell.edu/factsheets/ecogardening/ipmrose.html

Below is an excerpt from Cornell on management of agricultural midge:

"Optimal moisture content for swede midge emergence was from 25 – 75 %... Under laboratory conditions, most swede midge pupated within the top 1 cm of soil, regardless of soil types. .More than 5 cm depth of soil cover greatly reduced the emergence number and delayed the time of emergence.

These results suggest that cultural practices, such as flooding fields during non-cropping periods to achieve 100% soil moisture level or even drying the soil, may be viable methods to reduce swede midge emergence. Similarily, swede midge populations and damage are expected to be reduced when saturated soil or drought conditions occur."

*** From StrawChicago: That's why I don't have midge in my 2 decades of growing roses in clay soil, unless I mess up the top layer of soil, like with Golden Celebration. Our weather is VERY HEAVY rain, all night long, that occurs once a week (in a wet-year). We also have dry & hot period that bake our clay into dry-rocks, nothing can germinate, including pests' larvae.

Sam: When a woman thinks like a man, she gets hassled by the crowd. Your being a guy spared you from put-downs. I depart from the norm of "dumb & following woman", since I think like a man. I question the norm, I don't follow the crowd, and I use my brain.

I analyze the situation, rather than blindly following anyone's dictates. I don't fit in with the ego-freaks and control-freaks who tell people what to do, rather than posting any pics., or sharing about one's garden. I'm happy with just a few in Organic rose, but welcome anyone who want to share about their garden, or post pics. The reason why few want to join? It's easier to tell folks what to do, than be honest about one's garden, or to post pictures.

I agree with you. You are free to do as you please in your own garden. I like you saying that only you know your own soil and conditions. I like that you and Jim recognize that everyone soil and conditions are different. I cringe when I hear blanket statements like "most of us do this". Or "Rose growers in the east must spray"

A lot of crazy stuff going on in our family right now ( pending sicknesses) so just going to pull out most of our Marigolds to get ready for winter....So I can focus on our family issues...

Progress so far...

OK wishing everyone well

Jim, my prayers are with your family. This forum is also about healthy ways of living (both for roses and for us). I really appreciate Jim's example in previous thread, of how he lost the weight. Thanks for Jim's setting an example of walking in the rain, I stick to my schedule of walking for 20 min. outside, I'm down to 128 lb., still have 8 lb. more. It's easier done when we are "in-it" together, or the "sunshine pledge" of being outside for 20 min. I'm much happier when I'm outside, sniffing my roses.

Thanks! I'll write later to you Sam and explain...

Here's what I got done...

Good job Straw and Jim

I am doing my walking and riding my bicycle too.

Awesome Sam!

We got some rain...

Got the rain now

Prairie Harvest & Earthsong getting more buds... Easy Does It has a bloom and a bud awaiting to open. Double Knockouts are loading up on more buds...

Weathers cooling down... I suppose each week will get cooler & cooler until Jack Frost makes his appearance... Damm you Jack! lol

Easy Does it bloom & bud...

Zinnia Bloom:

Jim: I like those exotic flowers in the middle. So glad it cooled down, we had the air on yesterday. Will post pics. of my garden later.

Ok Straw thanks... We have not had to use our air conditioner since Sept 14th...I took our Air Conditioner out of the window yesterday...

Very nice pic. of knock-out, mine is blooming now, but the winter made it into 1-cane-wonder. I'm praying for your brother Randy. I feel blessed with the ability to walk, see, and talk. God gave us things to enjoy and to share with one another, rather than to hog and to boast. More is demand of those who are given much. I am given much by God: ideal climate for roses (heavy rain once a week), ideal soil with anti-fungal agents (magnesium) ... that's why I share here in Organic Rose.

I might order Firefighter again, since it gives perfect cut flowers to cheer people up.

Thanks!

Damm you had a lot of winterkill Straw! Our Double Knockouts had anywhere from 6-12 canes left after last winter... Had to shorten them down to about 14-24 inches so not to bad. Then cut 1/3 of the oldest canes to the ground.

My worse Rose for winterkill was Precious Platinum which ALL CANES had to be cut to the ground. But it had lots of vigor and came back nicely each year with many blooms...

ANYHOW, I spent today taking out more Marigolds and I got Carefree Celebration spot ready for next year...

Here I applied lots of compost and leaf/twigs because Marigolds grew slow in that area this year...

Spot were Carefree Celebration will go next year. I fenced it off and applied compost...

Yup, winter is coming. Most of the leaves have changed color here. My hubby saw a rabbit, that was turning color.

BUT... I had some awesome smelling roses outside!!! Man, The McCartney Rose was super!!! I love the banana candy smell of Acapella. MMMMmmmmm.

Carol

Jim: I understand you are under stress with your family's situation: people get sick, including Cagney. It's good to get your frustrations out with cuss-words. Recently I stated that a partcicular rose looks like S.... And Houzz sent me a friendly reminder NOT to use swearing-words. So I changed that to that rose looks really bad. When my kid was 3 year-old she said "Bam" it, to get her frustration out. My favorite word is S, when I messed up.

Carol, thanks for the info. on Acapelia, I look up in HMF and it's such a pretty rose. I took lots of pics., but don't post much since it takes time to upload them. I give Jim lots of credit for posting fantastic pics. of his garden, and esp. the insects on plants, it's like visiting his garden in real-life. It's a delight to see Jim's organized & perfect garden. Mine is a mess, everytime I go out side I see zillions of dandlions and weeds. Lots of time I go to sniff a rose, and I end up spending 1 hour outside pulling weeds !!

Carol and Msgirl: you both are blessed with roses in pots, so much easier than in-ground. I can't do roses in pots, since I don't have a 3-car garage, I only have 2 1/2 car-garage. We almost bought a brand-new 3-car garage house, but it backed up to a busy high-way, I want peace & quiet, rather than zooming traffic. I like the stability of few friends in Organic Rose, rather than tons of people in Rose forum.

I have frost advisory tonight.

Oh no Sam! Already! But that time of the season is coming Unfortunately...

48 degrees here tonight...

I spent almost the entire day outside getting things ready for winter...Put cages around some of the smaller roses so rabbits will not munch them in the winter... I caged Prairie Harvest & two smaller D. Ko's, Thomas Affleck... Earthsong , EDI, and my sisters roses were already caged...Then I made some cages for next year...

44 here

Wow! Frost advisory in zone 5!!!

We're supposed to go down to 1C (33.8 F). So we're almost to freezing. Tomatoes are going in the garage anyway - cause you never know.

I was outside cutting back perennials. We used the lasagna method to make a bed with beautiful dirt. I'm always putting coffee grounds down (from Starbucks) for the worms to eat. I cut every perennial down and cut up the stems and leaves (into 1/2inch pieces) to add to the top of the bed. Makes for nice fluffly bed where the good bugs can overwinter. Takes a long time, but I like being outside.

Carol

Sam: I love your pic. with Earthsong and purple phlox. Wow!

Carol: Agree that Lasagna method is best.

Jim: Great idea to put cage around roses. I have this tree-wrap which I wrap on lower cane, but I dump so much soil around roses, that bunnies have no interest. Plus I put big wads of alfafa-hay, so I they munch on it. Alfalfa hay is really cheap at $8 per big bale. I wish I had gotten hay earlier this spring. I forgot to put water in the bird bath in April, and the golden finch went crazy and pecked on my screen, causing an ugly hole. Cost to replace that big screen? At least $40. So $8 of alfalfa hay as mulch in spring helps to prevent birds from pecking on screen, since they can get the hay for their nest, instead of destroying my window-screens.

We get cold weather later in Chicagoland, in Oct. Two days ago I had the air on, and free-garbage day (Sept. 18), it was so hot in the attic that I could not do much clean-up. My kid keeps asking for a real cat. I said cat's poop is too stinky, so she wants to get her own-place just to keep a cat. Below is a bouquet, pic. taken Sept. 18, that's when the weather was 85 degree. Tchaikosky (yellow) takes the center stage. Others: Sharifa Asma, Mary Magdalene (beige), Crown Princess Mag (orange), Gruss an Teplitz (red), and Sonia Rykiel (pink), plus Lavender Rose.

Today the Car race NASCAR was at Chicago land on TV

Was Nascar rockin Chicago?

Great looking bouquet Straw!

Cats are hard to take care of IMO... No more cats for us after these two pass away... Sometimes they pee or poop on carpet and its stinky...Cagney never has but Lacy has...

Dogs can also pee or poop in house but trained they do well until they get older and have problems then it starts all over again...

But I love our pets like there our children...lol

Rabbits ate our smaller roses here a few times before I had the sense to cage them....lol... Rabbits ate them right to the ground... :-/

Sam: Thanks for the info. about car-race, will inform hubby.

Jim: Will have my kid read your post pertaining to pets. THANK YOU. Caging is a great idea. We had to cage our burning bush when it was tiny, now it's taller than me, so bunnies don't bother. This spring I had zero bunnies damage, since they chewed on my left-over alfalfa-hay wrapped around the bush. Plus I have an open-compost, where stuff in the compost is yummier than roses. Lots of old veggies, sweet potato peels, melon rinds, and banana peels go to the compost, plus hubby's coffee ground. When I eat healthy, the animals benefit too with the scraps. In the winter we saw baby-opossum digging my compost pile, and munched on sweet potato peels. Opossum are useful since they cut down the ticks that cause Lyme disease.

Found more ways to use tomato from my garden: Last night I made zucchini & beef & tomato soup. Took only 15 min. Fresh cilantro made it special. I chopped both yellow and green zucchini, 2 onions. 3 pieces of garlic. Fry onions, garlic until soft, add ground beef, zucchini, then 1/2 cup water ... simmer. Then add 2 cups of fresh tomato, cook until tender. Add chopped cilantro & dry oregano last, also 1 cup of canned chicken broth last.

I experimented with a new recipe for ribs which called for marinade a slab of rib with 1/2 cup pineapple juice, 2 tea. garlic flakes, 2 Table. ketchup, 2 T. honey (or molasses), 1 1/2 hoisin sauce, 1 1/2 T. soy sauce, and a touch of five-spice powder (can omit), 2 T. cornstarch. Cover with foil, and bake in 420 oven for 5 min. per lb., then lower heat to 250 for 1 hour (still covered) for 1 hour per lb. Put barbecue sauce last, re-covered, 20 min. before done.

That rib marinated in a sour-sweet sauce was WAY-MORE tender than the rib with dry-rub. What I should had done with the ribs with dry-rub was to marinade them in chopped fresh tomato, plus 2 T. cornstarch, cover that well and bake the same way. For dry rub, one recipe suggest 1/2 cup of Montreal Steak seasoning, or 1/2 cup Mrs. Dash Mesquite Grilling Blends per slab. Also rub with brown sugar before baking.

I realize that if the ribs have zero sauce on it, it should be baked at 350 degree, covered, for 1 hour, then put barbecue sauce on, cover, turn down to 250 degree and cook for 1 hour more. That makes more sense. The high-heat method at 420 applies for ribs with a sour-sauce on. Cooking is harder than growing roses, I have the entire family to please ... I usually cook 3 slabs of ribs (different flavor), freeze them, so I don't have to cook everyday & more time for gardening.

Ribs is healthy food, since there's bone involved. The magnesium & calcium is released from the bone into the sauce via slow-cooking. We are loaded with calcium, but short on magnesium, and the tap water across the country shows that too:

BEST SITE ON LOW MAGNESIUM LEVELS IN TAP WATER OF CITIES:

http://www.mgwater.com/mgrank.shtml

"The U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Human Nutrition Research Center in North Dakota found that magnesium plays a key role in the body chemistry that regulates sleep. They found that people who suffer from long-term insomnia or who have abnormal brain waves during sleep are often deficient in magnesium."

Sounds yum yum Straw! Thanks for info!

With our colder swings I'm starting to see rose leaves do crazy things even the D. Ko's but its that time of the year...Zinnia & dogwood Bush leaves also...

My son (26) whom leaves in Seattle Washington is coming home to visit on the 23rd of this month and will be staying a few days.... :-)

Straw - I didn't know that opposums eat ticks!! That's wonderful!! I don't go for off-leash walks in the spring, because I'm afraid of ticks. Gotta get me a pet opposum. LOL I love your approach to gardening. Sounds like something I would do, if I had a bunny problem and roses outside. Very clever!

Interesting about the magnesium/calcium from the ribs. I guess getting ribs from a restaurant would negate that since they present the ribs with a bbq sauce, and not a baked in sauce?

Oh!! Jim, that's wonderful!! Have fun with your son!!

Carol

Thanks Carol...

We are getting alittle more rain today...Bit late though...lol

Cooler rainy day today... High only got to 59 degrees here at 4pm...

It was suppose to get to 66 degrees today but weather forecasters were off...lol

http://www.wearecentralpa.com/weather#media-tab-currentConditions60074891-1

66 here.

Heritage blooms maybe last ones.

Straw - yeah, I don't drink alcohol of any kind. Just don't like the taste. It's all too bitter for me. I'm one of those supertasters. My sister had these strips that we all put in our mouths. If you could taste it you were a supertaster. I tasted bitter for a whole week. Which is why I like sweet things so much. So many things are bitter to me.

Jim - we have the same temperature here. It's quite nice when the wind dies down. :)

Carol

My son also loves steak but does not eat a lot of meat...Mike loves his fruits and veggies etc. But he does indulge once in awhile with pizza and those types of foods. My sons tastes are always changing a bit so no real favorite food...

I don't drink but if I had some wine I'd taste test it....lol

Sam your Heritage looks great! Nice blooms!

Carol: I'm a supertaster too, due to my sensitive nose I can detect fragrance notes in roses. I can detect different types of salt too. When we first switched to Lite-Salt (potassium chloride) I didn't care for the taste, but now I love it. If I have regular salt, or sea salt, I get a headache. My blood pressure is normal. My husband is different, one time I complained that Campbell soup is too salty, he disagreed. I was about to throw that away, but he said it's a waste of money. So I dumped more salt on purpose just to test him .. he ate it with no problems ! He can't taste the salt whatsoever, so his blood pressure is high. That's why I make everything from scratch, including pizza.

Jim: I like the wine-tasting or just a touch of wine, like in Catholic church.

Straw - Are you Catholic? Me too!! Yeah, my husband is like yours - he'll eat anything. I am sooo sensitive to taste. I'll even start gagging. It's very frustrating. I make things from scratch too - home made buns, pizza (even the sauce - from frozen fresh tomatoes from my garden), soup, etc. Because of my super taste, there's so many things I don't like - that if I make it myself, I know I'll like it.

Jim - steak - fire - good!! :)

Carol

Carol: Thank you for being my "kindred spirit" with respect for nature and God our Creator. I am much happier with a few trusted friends here, than the wide-open Rose forum where strangers can just come and nit-pick each other. I re-post a picture of my garden, where someone in Rose forum nit-picked on my lawn, telling me that I should SPRAY each dandelion with Round-up, rather than fertilizing via a spreader like the lawn-company does. Another CA person told me I should separate each horse poop from the bedding, to avoid the lime !!! Never mind that our heavy rain turn poop and bedding into a mushy-mesh. When will people stop telling others what to do, when our soil & climate are so different?

Some pictures taken Sept. 20 (this past Sunday): Tchaikosky with 12-buds, bought from RU as own-root end of June, less than 4 hrs. of sun (my tall house shades it as we get less sun in the north side).

Pat Austin below, also less than 4 hrs. of sun, is reaching out for more sun:

Sept 20 pic. of Wise Portia, only 3 hours of sun, fertilized with dolomitic lime, red-lava-rock, and pea-gravel ... lots of buds. You can see yellowish & diseased Christopher Marlowe next to it, thanks to acidic brewer's yeast, blood meal, cocoa mulch, and no pea-gravel. My purpose was to make Chris throw octopus canes, so I can bend down to do soil-layering. The blood meal (high in nitrogen) made Chris' blooms really small, 1/2 the size.

That's to prove again, and again that alkaline topping helps to prevent black spots. Alkaline topping serves as BUFFERS to neutralize acidic rain at pH 5.6. We got tons of all-night & all-day rain recently.

Great pics Straw!

One time years ago I dug holes by each dandelion and poured vinegar into each hole... We did not have dandelions for a long while after that...lol

But these days dandelions do not bother me much they add color to the lawn...lol... And I don't think I'd pour vinegar into the soil anymore...lol

We got alittle more rain last night...

My son should be coming here tomorrow tonight...

Today is a nice sunny day about 68 degrees here a 1:45pm...

Some random shots I took today...

These two Double Knockouts are taking there good old time coming back from getting tranplanted in latter 2014....They are as old as the other D Ko's but transplanting has seemed to have stunted them both...I'm thinking about blocking the winter winds so they hopefully have a better chance of getting larger next year...lol

Jim: I enjoy seeing your pets and really-good-looking Knock-outs. Thank you for posting .. I don't have pets, so I appreciate their pics. The playground in the background, is that for your grandson? When I see that, I miss my kid's toddler years.

Carol: How do you make sauce for pizza from frozen tomatoes? I put pre-cooked cherry-tomatoes on pizza, and my kid HATES that, I should make a smooth sauce, without the skins. Also when you winterized your pots in the garage by piling up blankets, how often do you water them? Do they get dried out under the blankets, inside the garage through the winter? Thanks for the info.

Lovely roses everyone!! Wise Portis has such a wonderful color!! Double Knockout looks great!!

Straw - I just throw the frozen tomatoes into a bit pot with a bit of water on the bottom, so the tomatoes don't scorch. Then I boil them forever. The skins float up, so I take them off (my mom takes the frozen tomatoes and holds them under warm water, and the skins just slide off. But I think the skin probably gets extra vitamins into the sauce, since most vitamins are in the skin. Then when it's boiling nicely and the skins are gone, I add a couple of tsps of sugar and a lot of oregano. When it's a nice consistency for spreading on pizza, I use it or freeze it. It's pretty easy, and tastes delicious!!

Winterizing pots - I wrote this up awhile ago, since I've had so many requests as to my methods. Here it is. :)

_________________________________

I overwinter my 50 roses in large pots in my garage with the
2 cars. LOL Three car garage.

Here's what I do:

- I keep deadheading until it's time for them to go into the
garage.
- I keep feeding them and watering well until it's time for them to go into the
garage.
-Then when the temperature gets to be about -6C I cut all the leaves off at the
point they join the heavier stem. I don't cut any height off of the plant.
- At this point I water them really, really well and move them by dolly into
the garage.
- I cover them with thick blankets, layers of flannel sheets or sleeping bags.
- My garage is insulated.
- Then I leave them alone in the dark. Doesn't matter if the garage door is
opened and closed.
- Around January, I look and see if they're dried out a bit.
- If they are, then I water each rose 1/2 cup.
- I repeat this every month.
- As the weather starts warming up, I take off some blankets - so they don't
start making new growth in the heat.
- Any new growth should be broken off as you would thorns - just push them to
the side, and they'll fall off.
- If you have only a few pots - you can start taking them outside during the
day when it gets about 5 C outside. Bring them inside until the night
temperature doesn't drop below 5C.
- Remember to water really well once you take them outside.
- If you have a lot - then either wait until night tempreatures are 5C before
you take them outside - or cover them with blankets at night.

Hope this helps,
Carol

Thank you, Carol for those great tips. So -6 C is 21 degree F. that's when I move to my garage & cover up. 5 C is 41 degree Fahrenheit, yes, it's the safe range to move outside during the day. 1/2 cup water per month is a good rule, THANK YOU.

I like your tip of watering them well when bringing them outside. That's how I lost my rootings: they dried out in cold & sunny spring, plus I forgot to bring back inside at night.

I like your tip of boiling the tomatoes until the skin floats on top ... yes, the skin is nutritious. With regard to your question in the other thread: "Did you enjoy being part of such a large family?" No, it wasn't fun being the youngest of 9 girls, with 8 older sisters bossed me around. That's why I have one child, and chose my tube to be tied during C-section. I had my child late, and the risk of Down's syndrome is high with older Mom. I was very lucky that my child is healthy (she is in the gifted program).

The lady across the street was about the same age, near 40's .. she already had 2 girls from a previous marriage, then gave birth to a son (same time as I had my only daughter). Then she went ahead to have a second son, and he's retarded. There's a price to pay when someone push for more than what one can handle (age-wise). So much sufferings throughout history is caused by greed. Greed and suffering go hand-in-hand. Countries go to war because they want MORE: MORE CONTROL, MORE LAND, etc. True happiness is when I say, "I don't want any more roses, I have enough." That's why I don't hang out in the main Rose forum where the focus is quantity, rather than quality. In Organic Rose, I get plenty of enjoyment from seeing pics of others' roses, so I don't need to grow the same.

My favorite bible verse: "Then he said to them, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.” – Luke 12:15

Thank-you Carol . I read that 3 times the Celsius confuses me thank you Straw for sorting it out.

Carol's wintering method is the best I had seen. Carol: we are so blessed by your company, thanks.

I checked around my Christopher Marlow to see what's wrong: blooms are too small. Too much red-lava-rock piled up, which block the water from going down. Growing roses is about restraint & balance ... so I will check Evelyn (perfect health & many buds) to measure the amount of red-lava-rock versus pea gravel. Growing roses is very much like cooking good food: there's chemistry, nutrition, and the right amount & time involved.

That's why I like Espoma Tone-fertilizer: Bumper-crop last year with 2 cups of Tomato-Tone in the planting hole of each tomato. The only drawback of Tone-fertilizer on top: it has bone meal, which attracts insects. I find that mixing organics with soil helps it to break down faster, so I always have bags of top-soil around to mix with Tone-fertilizer on a face-up garbage lid. I accidentally killed a young rose by putting chicken-manure around the stem early spring: that gunked up around the root, and the concentrated salt zapped that rose. The instruction on the chicken-manure bag said to mix with soil, before applying.

straw - Thanks for the kind words about my overwintering methods. :) I learned by trial and error. Now, I never have a rose that dies over winter. Remember it's 1/2 cup of water/month after late January check to see if they're dried out. If you can feel any moisture, leave them alone. :)

Yeah, and I bet being the oldest girls was difficult too. I have two girls, and the doctor told me not to have any more children (I had sooooo many pregnancy problems, including needing 2 blood transfusions.). So I've stopped after two. I really like having two girls. It's just perfect. True happiness is being content with small things. I feel really happy.

The rose-tone information is really helpful. It's so helpful to learn from everyone else, so we're not always re-inventing the wheel.

It's really nice to feel so welcomed here. I feel like I've found my niche.

Sam - No problem. I hope it helps. :) This thread has copious amounts of information on how to do stuff. I'm really grateful for everyone's help. Sorry about the C/F problem. It didn't occur to me. Oops!

Carol

Carol, thank you for clarification regarding "1/2 cup water per month AFTER late Jan., and check if dry 1st." That's my mistake, I over-watered my 2 rootings through the winter, and they got molds on top.
I first post in Organic rose when it was a desert in 2013, no one here to answer newbies' questions, such as "where to buy roses for Mother's day?". Then corporate-sleuths came in Organic Rose to recommend Bayer-spray, plus other chemicals. How aggressive can they get?

I defend Organic Rose by posting here daily, I was the only one !! Thank God, Jim dropped by to keep me company .. and he posted almost daily since 2014.
We started "sunshine club-pledge" around Sept. 11, 2015. The pledge is to get 20 min. of sunshine per day for our health. Roses need at least 4 to 5 hours of sunshine, and our bodies need sunshine too.

Jim set a great example by walking in the rain to keep the pledge. Since then I walked 20 to 30 min. everyday, I lost 1/2 inch. on my waist, and 2 lbs (down to 127). The only day I didn't walk was yesterday, when I took Melatonin and was really sleepy in the morning (but I made up by working in the garden for 1 1/2 hour).

I won't use Melatonin ever again, lemon-balm is so much better as a sleep-aid.
Walking helps to lose inches around the waist. Prevention magazine had an article where they documented "2 dozen women, ages 34 to 63, who walked in heat and rain to test this revolutionary program. They lost up to 3 times the weight that they would have through traditional, steady-paced walking--shedding up to 14 pounds and trimming 3 inches off their waists in just 4 weeks." That's through "interval-training" where you walk really fast for 10 min, slow down, then walk super-fast again."

http://www.prevention.com/fitness/fitness-tips/walk-weight-loss

JIM: Time for a new thread, thank you. May be a new title, "2015 Sunshine pledge #1"