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aliceblois

Advice for staying on the good side of our GC and not getting screwed.

aliceblois
8 years ago

Okay...I definitely opened a can of worms with the last discussion on running the job myself and have dropped that dumb idea--I don't have the experience for it and my husband doesn't have the time. The GC is back in contact with us and we have a pre-contract meeting coming up next week.

Any advice from you GC's on how to be a model client? What can I do to stay on his good side and keep the project moving forward. What questions should we ask/avoid at the upcoming meeting?

Any advice from homeowners on pitfalls to avoid and how to protect us from being taken advantage of?

My two biggest concerns are #1 how to keep the project on schedule and #2 how to avoid unfair change orders.

The project is an unoccupied $350,000+ remodel on a 2,500 square foot 1950's view home in southern California. This is a home we plan to live in for the next 20 years hopefully. Nearly every room is having something done. Kitchen, laundry rooms being relocated. Walls taken down. Bathrooms being remodeled. New master bath being added on.

Pretty excited to get this going finally and hoping to be living there spring of 2016. Thanks for any advice.

Comments (17)

  • geoffrey_b
    8 years ago

    I'm a software developer, I have run large projects.

    The best way of keeping the project on time is to break the project down into manageable increments (milestones), that can be more accurately estimated. Then you draw a time line, with a critical path. Also make sure all key materials will be available. You need to be involved - check their work (maybe in the evening) - check their progress - be sure you get weekly status reports.

    As for change orders - besides the engineering drawings, you need to make a BOM (bill of materials) of all the items such as faucets / lighting / flooring / etc. The more specific the better. Myself I would first decide on A/C, furnance, type of water heater, make, model, etc. In a perfect world - the contractor should build to the drawings and there would be no change orders.


    aliceblois thanked geoffrey_b
  • aliceblois
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    That's great. My husband is great at scheduling because he does it in his work, so we will make up a schedule. I was worried about stepping on the contractor's toes (based on a prior thread), but it sounds like this will help keep things on schedule. I plan on being at the site on a daily basis to make sure all goes as planned.

    On materials, I'll have to double check, but I think as it is now it is specified that the owner will provide lighting and plumbing fixtures. The flooring will probably be given an "allowance" because we aren't sure yet if we will refinish/patch existing wood floors or replace. We aren't planning on replacing the furnace or AC unit as they are currently functional. We have already purchased appliances. Will look at other materials that will need to be specified.

    Thanks for the input--much appreciated. First time remodelers.

  • User
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    It should be the general contractor's job to schedule the work. If you usurp the contractors role that will relieve him of that responsibility. You wouldn't be able to do it anyway.

    You should establish in the contract that the contractor must submit a schedule within so many days of signing along with required intervals for updating the schedule.

    The best way to avoid cost overruns is to have a well written contract and complete drawings and specifications with minimal allowances (assuming the contract is a Fixed Sum). That can be very difficult to do if there is no design professional involved. If the contractor is primarily responsible for the design and you are not represented during the construction phase, you will effectively be forced to trust him for quality control or try to provide it yourself.

    Tell us who is designing the house, what documents will be prepared, who is preparing the documents, who will be writing the construction contract and what kind of contract will it be.

    aliceblois thanked User
  • banana suit
    8 years ago

    Make sure there are no assumptions on either side. If you're not on the same page for day one you're doing to have headaches.

    Have you checked references and past work? If their past customers have had headaches you will too. They're not going to change their habits and behavior just because you have a more thorough contract.

    Value their work and craftsmanship. Labor is not a place to save money appliances and whatever materials (tile, fixtures, etc not lumber or building materials) your contract allows you to purchase are places to save money.

    The contractor we're using for our kitchen is very liberal with changes but we also have a great relationship. As long as they're not having to do work over or scrap materials they are okay with the changes.

    aliceblois thanked banana suit
  • rwiegand
    8 years ago

    Specify everything in advance. Allowances are the road to a busted budget. Just suck it up and make the decisions up front, and then stick with them unless it turns out to be a terrible error (that's one of the things the 20% "overage" line in your budget is for.) With regard scheduling have your GC set the schedule and then include carrots and sticks as appropriate in the contract for sticking to it (bonus payments for meeting the schedule, penalty clauses for missing it by more than 10-20%, for example). The CO process needs to be well documented and adhered to-- changes will incur changes both in cost and schedule that need to written down and signed off by both parties.

    aliceblois thanked rwiegand
  • User
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Don't mess with liquidated damages penalty clauses unless you are a litigation attorney. They are rarely enforceable, costly and intended for multi million dollar projects. If anything, offer a bonus for finishing on time.

    You are not going to get much useful specific advice if you don't explain the roles of the people involved, the type of contact, etc. Spinning your wheels is often what runs the cost of a project up and causes conflicts.

    The cheapest insurance against trouble is professional representation.

    aliceblois thanked User
  • MongoCT
    8 years ago

    You got some really good info from previous posters.

    I'll just emphasize again what they wrote: Any ambiguity you have in the contract is an open invitation for a budget adjustment.

    Once you get your materials down, walk through the house with the contractor. It's his last chance to see things as they are now, to look at your bill of goods, and to envision what each space will be. He can then make labor and material adjustments to the budget as necessary.

    Ask him what pitfalls he sees. Eliminate or reconcile those that you can now. Those that can't? Set aside additional money just in case.

    Prepare for the work in a professional manner, and he should do the same.

    aliceblois thanked MongoCT
  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I wouldn't want such a suspicious and apprehensive client. If I haven't earned your complete trust before we sign a deal, I don't deserve your work. If my reputation has no meaning or value to you, I have nothing for you. We aren't right for each other. :(

  • aliceblois
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Thanks all for the advice from those of you trying to be helpful. We do have detailed plans completed by an architect so that helps with most questions. Will be sure to do our best to cover other ambiguous issues in the contract.

    @Joseph Corlett--not sure if your comment was directed at me specifically, but it's pretty harsh. I'm not sure how a client can build trust with a builder who doesn't welcome open discussion. I apologize because my title was inflammatory (getting screwed) but when I tried to phase it differently I was cut off because it was too long. Maybe that's what you're reacting to. Remember, you have done this for years and all is familiar to you--for your clients this may be their first remodel and they are nervous about the unknown. Some people are happy to put full trust in a professional with no questions, others of us would never commit to something without doing our homework to learn what we are getting into. I think the clients who ask more questions ahead of time and understand more up front will be better in the long run.

  • weedyacres
    8 years ago

    Daily visits to the job site are a good idea. That way you can notice little goofs before they become big ones. When there, ask them what they need from you, ask them if they have any questions, so it's not just you looking over their shoulders.

    We recently hired a couple Amish guys to build a room addition shell, and I talked with them daily in the morning before I left for work and inspected everything after I got home. Even honest, well-meaning contractors can make mistakes. Examples of stuff I caught and had rectified:

    • Sidewalk was flat instead of slightly sloped away from the house. I put a level on the forms to check one evening, and was able to tell them in the morning so they fixed the forms and didn't have to repour.
    • They were about to put a plastic sheet in the crawl space when we had it drawn with a rat slab (they missed it on the drawings). I caught it before they framed over it.
    • They didn't properly flash the windows. I printed out something from the internet and they fixed it before the siding went up.
  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    "Any advice from you GC's on how to be a model client? What can I do to stay on his good side and keep the project moving forward. What questions should we ask/avoid at the upcoming meeting?

    My two biggest concerns are #1 how to keep the project on schedule and #2 how to avoid unfair change orders."

    aliceblols:

    You asked the above question and I answered it as honestly and fairly as I could.

    I just wouldn't want a customer who was fearful that I would try to get an "unfair" change order. Before any wood gets nailed, the first thing that must be built is mutual trust.

    I'd have you speak to my previous customers as to any missed deadlines. There aren't any. In fact, I'm the guy that gets called when the deadlines are missed. I just bailed a local GC out of big trouble when our new mall opened.

  • PRO
    User
    8 years ago

    Two of the biggest things that slow down building projects are 1. the fact that most homeowners are overwhelmed by the multitude of decisions they have to make during the process (i.e design, colors, finishes.). 2. Seemingly simple changes on multiple different details add up not only monetarily but also add up in extra time needed to complete the changes.


    I find that many homeowners waffle back and forth between 10 different finish choices because they are terrified of picking the wrong color or style of paint, tile, wood, appliances. This can slow down the material and product sourcing process which in turn can slow down the different trades if product become delayed because of unforseen lead time. So.... I would say that being somewhat flexible in certain instances would be a benefit to your project.

    The best builders are also the best at being able to manage the expectations of the client, the expectations of the schedule and the expectations of the work flow of the different trades working on your project.

    So I guess my answer to this question would be to hire a GC/Builder who you trust not only in a contractual manner but also someone you feel gets your sense of design. Personalities meshing on the jobsite is just about as important as the financial bottom line. Just my opinion.

  • MongoCT
    8 years ago

    "I wouldn't want such a suspicious and apprehensive client. If I haven't
    earned your complete trust before we sign a deal, I don't deserve your
    work."

    Joseph, my interpretation of this thread is that what you wrote is exactly what the OP is trying to do; trying to develop a solid relationship and establish trust with the contractor.

    Having conversations to evaluate and establish a good working relationship up front. Defining the scope of work up front. Hammering out choices of materials up front.

    The job gets "talked through" before any dust is created. If the contractor can address questions the customer asks, and be proactive in identifying common concerns?

    Proactive usually saves money.

    Reactive generally costs money.

    This forum has the traffic that it does because not all contractors are created equal.

  • MongoCT
    8 years ago

    I "liked" my own post. How sad. lol

  • blfenton
    8 years ago

    Hi, for some reason I wound up here from the Kitchen forum so I hope you don't mind if I offer a couple of thoughts. We did this same reno 5 years ago by gutting a 3000 sq ft home down to studs and plywood and the reno was about the same cost as what you are looking at.

    We had a few meetings with the GC before signing and I did ask him if he thought he and his firm could work with me. It was important that they understood that I would be the main contact and decision maker and not my husband.

    To keep the job on schedule and running smoothly have everything, and I mean everything, chosen before the job starts. You've chosen tile for the bathroom, how do you want it to run, you've chosen hardwood for the floor - great but have you chosen type and stain, have you chosen the type of edge for the kitchen and bathroom counters. Have every decision made before you start. Our GC didn't give us a choice, all those decisions had to made before we started. Lighting was the only thing he give us some lee-way on.This may seem harsh but there are a lot of little decisions still to made as you go along and the fewer decisions you have during the process the less stress there will be for you both.

    Do your own research first, don't rely on the GC to educate you on your available choices (faucets, flooring, counter tops as in granite vs quartz) - that wastes his time and costs you money.

    Know your own strengths and weaknesses when it comes to choosing things and developing a cohesive style for your home. I have a poor sense of colour and needed help in choosing paint colours. They provided someone to help me with that so that colours flowed.

    We developed an e-mail communication system which helped us to stay in constant touch rather than rely on texting or phone. E-mails develop a paper trail that can be called upon in the event of misunderstandings. It also allows some space between the two parties if an issue arises that might cause some stress.

    We only had two change orders - one involved adding some extra windows and the other involved vaulting our family room ceiling which we discovered was a possibility when the ceiling was opened up. In our post and beam home it was a great added feature and we weren't surcharged for either change.

    We were 6 months from moving out of the house to moving back in and our GC was a gem to work with during our reno. We have since recommended him to others and he has gotten some work from those referrals.

    Good Luck and do have fun.


  • aprilneverends
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Great advice here. I would just add: if you can get designer's help in the equation-do it. I really enjoy decor and design, but the amount of decisions both big and small is overwhelming..you're afraid to make a costly mistake, you don't want to compromise but you usually have to..at some point you start feeling exhausted, less creative, less motivated, and you spend SO MUCH time on just deciding on things and picking the materials that your contractor politely starts going crazy..))

    Even if you enjoy design, and have a great eye, and lots of inspiration-if you can hire help/choose contractor who has a designer on his team-do it. Will save you and your contractor several very precious things like time and sanity))

    If you decide/have to do it yourself(like we did)-keep it simple, and try to decide on things and order materials well in advance. Understand what will be in stock and what will require 8 weeks of production, so you can coordinate everything better. Try to be easy on yourself. Try to be easy on your contractor. Nothing will be perfect, and it will have ups and downs, as every process or every relationship or every project or every journey. The key is communication-pick a GC that a) impresses you with his knowledge b) you have a great feeling when communicating with. You'll spend A LOT of time together, you'll be dependent on this guy A LOT-you'd rather do it with somebody who makes you comfortable, whether you agree on the things this moment, or work through them.

    Good luck, neighbors!