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rich12072

Can a carpenter modify a blind corner cabinet to hold a sink?

rich12072
8 years ago

I am looking for advice, preferably from those who have decent carpenter skills. I am looking to update my small kitchen by replacing the base cabinets and keeping but upgrading the wall cabinets to match new base cabinets.
I would like to keep the same layout. The current base cabinets appear to have been custom built in place many years ago. There isn't much room to vary the layout. The biggest hindrance to keeping the base cab configuration I have now is that the sink sits in a location more or less half-way in the corner. The only way I can keep this arrangement would be to modify a blind corner cabinet to hold a sink mostly above the door. Only a small portion of the sink would go beyond the corner (L-shaped kitchen). However, because it needs to go beyond the corner to use a standard size one basin kitchen sink, it would have to be place in a blind corner cabinet,.
Using a sink cabinet and a blind on the other side of the L would necessitate having the sink cabinet be so narrow, the size of the sink would have to be too small.
Can anyone tell me if it is possible to modify a blind corner cab to hold a sink as I have described? Picture shows what I am talking about. There is no more space to move the dishwasher further to the right. Thanks for your suggestions!

,

Comments (22)

  • lisa_a
    8 years ago

    I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish, sorry.

    I suggest you post your existing lay-out with its limitations (what can and can not move, etc) and ask for lay-out advice. We can help you come up with options that don't require modifying new cabinets (might void the warranty and may not be cost effective). One way to gain more room for your sink would be to swap out your 24" DW
    for a 18" DW. If your kitchen is as small as it sounds like it is,
    that's one way to gain some much needed space. Without seeing your plan, it's impossible to suggest additional ideas to make your small kitchen live as large as possible.

    See New to Kitchens? Read Me First! and post again.

    PS When DH and I first started out on our kitchen remodel journey, we considered keeping our existing cabs and modifying them to suit our needs. Turns out that would have cost more than new cabinets.

    rich12072 thanked lisa_a
  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I couldn't find a drawing of a blind corner sink base (probably because
    most sinks aren't in corners ;), so I modified a drawing of a blind corner drawer
    base. First, if you're replacing with laminate and a drop-in sink, you
    should have no problem since the laminate will support the sink rim. But
    anyone with a drill and a countersink bit could add a crosspiece, and
    couple of diagonal pieces for support (in red) to a blind corner cab.

    Another image of a blind corner base cab (not my spelling ;)


    Regular sink base with support for undermount sink, for comparison:
    Ana White--build a kitchen cabinet.

    I'd like to see the rest of the kitchen layout, too.

    rich12072 thanked mama goose_gw zn6OH
  • User
    8 years ago

    Don't touch that kitchen until you are prepared to make enough changes to it to improve the layout. It would be wasteful of resources to attempt to replicate the existing poor layout.


    Podt st your measured plan for the entire space.

    rich12072 thanked User
  • rich12072
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Mama goose... Thanks for the guidance and illustrations. You mention laminate but not other materials. Can you explain why? Also, would this work with a modified frameless blind corner cabinet as well? I've been considering buying Barkercabinets.com RTA because of the custom sizing options at decent prices and those are frameless. Appreciate any further advice. As for other comments, I do have pdf drawings of existing layout but not with me today. I may post at some later time. Also, I considered 18" dishwasher but we really need a full size and wouldn't want to alter layout so that it would always have to have an 18" DW (if we sell house, may not be desirable to potential buyers). Finally, I would love to reconfigure the kitchen and have ideas as to how that would be done, but that would cost me so much more than simply updating what I have now (had estimates, etc.). But thanks to all who have taken the time to reply!

  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    With laminate, you almost always use a drop in sink because of the unfinished edge on the sink cut-out. The rim of the sink sits on the countertop, so it's supported all around. With solid surface, or stone slab, most folks choose undermount, which needs a different type of support, but I didn't take time to consider that drop in sinks are also used on tiled counters, butcher block counters, or even on a slab--is that what you mean? You didn't mention a different countertop material, but if you are going to the trouble of remodeling, and especially if using solid surface or stone, I'd recommend undermount--I love the fact that I can just brush crumbs and debris into the sink without the interference of the lip/rim.

    I don't have frameless cabinets, and couldn't find a drawing of a frameless blind corner base, but since the hinges are mounted on the side of the cabinet box, if you install the door with a left to right swing, it would work.


    Even though frameless, the box would need a trim piece to meet the closed door, so you could probably use either side, as in this LeMans blind corner:

    But check out this neat solution to accessing a corner cabinet--the trim piece is on the left-hand door. You could ask your carpenter about that option:

    rich12072 thanked mama goose_gw zn6OH
  • lisa_a
    8 years ago

    Something as simple as moving the DW location could improve things quite a bit. I'm not talking a big change, simply moving it from (what I'm assuming is) the bottom of the U to one of the legs with enough space between it and the sink so that you can stand at the sink while the DW door is open would mean that your sink would no longer be partway into a corner. Unless there are other constraints, that should be a very minor change and minimal cost.

    Check out scrappy25 renovation Part 4, final reveal, white inset/soapstone thread to see what I mean about having the DW perpendicular to the sink.

    There are many GWers here who have small kitchens (Scrappy25's is one of them) and yet have fabulous kitchens, despite budget and space constraints. There is a lot of priceless wisdom here. I really encourage you to post your lay-out, including your constraints - for example, sink, range, etc need to stay put, doors and windows can't move - and see what the creative minds here come up with for you. You may end up right where you are but you also may settle on a cost effective plan that works much better. You've nothing to lose by trying.

    btw, working at a sink shoved into the corner like that would be a back buster for some of us.

    rich12072 thanked lisa_a
  • PRO
    MarkJames & Co
    8 years ago

    Yes you can in a frameless cabinet with any counter and sink that fits.

    If it is a standard blind the drawer box would be removed,drawerhead mounted on the face. For RTA cabinets I'd reinforce the drawer opening. For any, add a cleat at the wall where the cabinet is pulled away. Unless you have a cast iron sink no reinforcement to the cabinet is required (but can't hurt). Note that some semi-custom brands allow a blind modification to base cabinets, often at no charge.

    Should you? Reconfiguring will cost more, you have to determine if you can wait till an increased budget is available. Might let them explore the options to see what is possible.

    I've only ever done one of these, against my advice. Oddly it was one of the few GWers I've worked with. It was frameless, semi-custom. Small kitchen but it could have been avoided except for the clients insistence on a 48" range. They were happy with it though.

    rich12072 thanked MarkJames & Co
  • funkycamper
    8 years ago

    I agree with Lisa and LWO. It doesn't hurt to try. You might be surprised at how little extra it costs to make a slight modification or two that would really improve your space. Of course, maybe we can't think of anything helpful but why not give us all a shot?

    FWIW, a sink in a corner like you are proposing would be more of a deal-breaker to me, if I was a potential buyer, than an 18" wide DW. And I'm an avid cook who uses my DW a lot. I wish I had space for two. But I'd rather have to run a smaller DW more often than squeeze in that corner to use the sink.

    rich12072 thanked funkycamper
  • cpartist
    8 years ago

    I would never buy a house with a sink in the corner unless I was planning on gutting it. I just would hate working in a corner like that.

    rich12072 thanked cpartist
  • rich12072
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Thanks for all the advice. As for the sink in the corner, I have been living here for a number of years and really havent had any issues with sink functionalilty as far as it being "in the corner". This is most likely because it is only a few inches into the corner. I actually like having the dishwasher right next to the sink - easy to take dirty dishes from sink into DW. I woulnt want to have to carry dirty dishes over to another corner of the U. In any case, I have attempted to design placement of the DW in another part of this U. I use Autocad and anything I do with this configuration seems to end up making it worse. I want to replace the base cabs shown with cabs offering the same set up - one with three drawers and one with one drawer and one door. There are no cabs on the one leg of the U not shown in this pic. It is just a 40" long electric stove. So, I really need the total of four drawers on the leg shown.

    Its good to know it will be possible for a good carpenter to easily modify a frameless blind cab to handle incorporation of a sink. I would prefer to use something other than a laminate for CT and an undermount sink. It souinds like that is all doeable with minor modifications, based on your insights.

    All I need now is to find that good carpenter who doesn't mind working on a small project such as this. Any advice on finding him/her in Central New Jersey?

    Thanks again!



  • lisa_a
    8 years ago

    Here's another option to consider.

    Assuming that your cab maker offers bathroom cabs, too, and that those cabs come 36" tall (with counters added), it might be possible to do the left run at 21" deep, not 24", giving you enough room for a sink cab and sink in the bottom of the U. As long as there aren't any appliances in the left run, this should work. Should save you money, too, since you won't need to hire a carpenter to modify a blind corner cab.

    The above is why we suggested you post your lay-out. There are potential tweaks like this that will improve your lay-out at minimal or no additional cost.

    The reason I suggested finding another alternative to the sink in the corner like you have is because you mentioned resale. You may be fine with the sink set up that way but future buyers may not.

    Kitchen remodeling is stressful and expensive. We're just trying to help you get the best value you can get for your remodeling dollars.

    rich12072 thanked lisa_a
  • rich12072
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    The idea of reduced depth cabs is actually something I've thought about. Actually, barkercabinets in CA does custom RTA with such an option. I just don't know if I want to make it that shallow (i.e. 21") as this kitchen already has a small amount of precious countertop space. But I DO appreciate your suggestion, and all those people have provided. In fact, I am now mulling over the 18" dishwasher idea that others have put forth. If I were to go this route, and dump my 40" wide range for a more conventional 30" wide, it looks like I could not only move the sink entirely out of the corner into a 24" sink cabinet, but I could also have corner cabs in both corners of the U that provide decent space for larger items. I will try to post a drawing of my layout soon.

  • rich12072
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Forgot to add that getting useable corner cabs in (one blind, one a door two corner) would likely only work if I reduce the depth of the one leg of cabs to 22-23", so there's taking into account that idea too.

  • lisa_a
    8 years ago

    Yep, trade-offs, that's the name of the game when it comes to kitchen remodeling. Giving up a 40" range for a 30" range to move a sink out of a corner and get usable corner storage sounds like a good trade to make in a small kitchen.

    Definitely check out scrappy's kitchen remodel (I linked to it above). She did an incredible job of making very bit of storage work in her modestly-sized kitchen.

    rich12072 thanked lisa_a
  • rich12072
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago


    Here is a Cad drawing of my proposed layout. I would only do the left U area initially, except that I would put new flooring throughout.

  • User
    8 years ago

    Can't that wall come down?

    rich12072 thanked User
  • Ann Scott-Arnold
    8 years ago

    RIch

    The short answer to your original question is yes - and do it for a LOT less than the suggestions so far.

    You could go to a corner sink. For example http://www.efaucets.com/detail.asp?Product_ID=DE217323&ca=gpsl&CAWELAID=227468735&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CPH1--_wt8sCFQsDaQodptQLLg

    It would cost you one drawer on the left of the current sink and give you a double basin.

    We did that in a very very tiny kitchen in a cabinet we had - tiny as in a u-shape with the sides of the U being 80 inches and the base of the U being 114 inches. Front edges of the counter runs (and appliances) were 66 - 66 -66.

    Other option is to modify the cabinets in the corner by doing an angle =draw a line from the far corner on the left cabinet straight across to the far corner of the right to get the idea. The corner goes away and it is a slightly angled line with 2 slight angles were it rejoins the main counters. You need a hypotenuse from side to side of 33 ". The sink goes in the angle area. Problem is it would cost a far amount of cabinet space.

    rich12072 thanked Ann Scott-Arnold
  • funkycamper
    8 years ago

    I would do whatever possible to get that DW out of the prep space (counter between sink and range). If you went with a shallower 18"-21" deep counter on the window wall, you could do something like this. Even though you would lose some actual square footage of counter space with the shallower counter, you are actually gaining so much more because of the great prep area you would get that would allow you to spread out. While it would be a bit crowded in your small space, someone could unload the DW while someone else is prepping, too. And all that prep time would be in front of your window. Prime prepping location, imho.


    rich12072 thanked funkycamper
  • rich12072
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Interesting idea. Wonder if there would be an overhead clearance issue with wall cabinets above sink in that location? Also, not sure how easy or expensive it will be to move plumbing. The design I proposed wouldnt require moving water or drain pipes or at least not by very much. I do like the prep layout.

  • Christine Johnson
    7 years ago

    Kraftmaid makes a blind base sink cabinet so there clearly a need for it or they wouldn't make one

  • rich12072
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Is there a way I can get the specs on that blind base sink cabinet? Thanks for the tip.