It's doubtful that the information is public knowledge, but once in a rare while, they let you know, such as with the heirloom marriage tomatoes.

More likely, you'll find someone else who has grown them out before who can tell you what they got.

I grew a Juliet F2, this year, but it got a disease or something soon after the transplant; so, I pulled it up. All the seedlings I had before thinning were regular leaf. I plan to try again in at least a couple years.

If you like Juliet F1's flavor, I might recommend Yellow Plum, too.

Hi Mokinu,

I'm sorry to hear you had to pull your Juliet.

I actually didn't know there was an F1 and an f2. Now I'm not sure which the one I grew was because I got the transplant at Kent building supplies.

I'm not sure what the difference is

except I guess it lies in the generation of the hybrid so I am guessing the f2 would be more stable in its traits??

There was someone who had posted a while back who said they had gotten some volunteer plants from a Juliet and it sounded like they may have been true to seed. I'm just trying to do some digging around.

I also seeded a Sweet and Neat yellow from a transplant from last year. Looks like it's about to start flowering so I'll soon be able to see how close it will be to being true to seed. Juliet has a bit more growing yet.

What did you mean when you said your seedlings were "regular leaf"?

I'm very new to gardening. Last year was my very first time. I have limited space as I'm growing on my 11x11 deck. I've never tried the yellow plum. But I really did love that yellow Sweet and Neat. This year I'm growing a Sungold cherry, black cherry, San Marzano, mortgage lifter and the Juliet. I also have the small varities of the Sweet and Neat yellow and Tiny Tim.

I'll have to check out the yellow plum.

Thank you!

Regular leaf is the leaf type. It's a genetic trait. It's the shape of the leaves. Most tomatoes are regular leaf. Some tomatoes are potato leaf. Some tomatoes are rugose. Very few are angora, and at least one is pompom.

An F1 hybrid tomato is a first-generation cross between two other kinds of tomatoes.

Businesses don't normally sell F2+ hybrids. They usually just sell the F1 hybrids and stable tomatoes.

The question you asked is kind of a trick question, because F1 hybrids technically are genetically less stable than F2 hybrids, but F1 hybrids are predictable, and F2 hybrids are a lot more random. You can repeat an F1 hybrid by crossing the two parents again, but every F2 is unique.

F1 hybrids are predictable only if both parents are stable (which they tend to be, in a commercial context). They're predictable because all the dominant traits of both parents should show up. Recessive genes will only show if neither parent had a dominant gene there. So, every F1 hybrid should be the same as its siblings. F2 hybrids show more diversity because the parent was not stable, and the heterozygous traits could become homozygous. Seeing more diversity doesn't necessarily mean there is more diversity, since it's segregating.

Thank you, Mokinu, for this very detailed reply. I really appreciate it. There's so much to learn about tomatoes. 🙂

It was very interesting to hear about the different leaf types. I am discovering a couple of differences in the tomatoes I am growing, in both their "hairiness" and the leaf shape/structure.

I do have an elementary understanding of the concept of dominant and recessive genes (intro biology at university many years ago). However, I didn't quite understand what you meant when you said, "Seeing more diversity doesn't necessarily mean there is more diversity, since it's segregating."

So the f2 that you were growing was that you crossing two tomatoes or is that what I have here, growing, the seed of an f1?

The F1 is the cross of two tomatoes. F2 is the child of that. F3 is the child of that. F4 is the child of that. And so on.

The F1 has more kinds of genes, but only expresses the dominant traits and the homozygous recessive traits. So, it might look less diverse, but it's not, even though the offspring will have more varied trait expression. The offspring will mix up all of that and lose some of the genetic information in the process. This happens again with every growout. The more generations you grow it out, the less diverse it'll likely be, and the closer to stable.

My Juliet F2 was from seeds I saved from some Juliet F1 fruits that someone gave me. The seeds of an F1 are F2 seeds. Juliet F1 is a commercial F1 hybrid, and I don't know which two tomatoes they cross to get it.

Regular leaf is dominant to potato leaf. I'm not sure about the other leaf types. Leaves can also be wispy/floppy (as is seen in many oxheart tomatoes), whether they're regular leaf or potato leaf (although there aren't many wispy potato leaf tomatoes, yet).

There is some additional leaf variation within regular leaf. Silvery Fir Tree has feathery foliage. Purple Calabash has kind of squat regular leaf foliage. Menehune's just looks a little different, but it's regular leaf.

Some tomatoes (not necessarily regular leaf ones) have chartreuse colored leaves (e.g. Cherokee Tiger Black Pear). Some are variegated (e.g. Faelan's First Snow).

Some tomatoes have extra stiff leaves and branches. Most rugose tomatoes are like this, but some other kinds are, too (such as my Isis Candy, this year).

Rugose tomatoes are usually dwarfs.

Thank you, Mokinu, for the amazing education you've provided me with here. I appreciate your willingness and your time and effort! All the best to you!!!🙂