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tiffnthor

Which stainless steel undermount sink (70/30) is best?

tiffnthor
last year

Hello! We are about to order a 70 / 30 stainless steel undermount 30-33" sink. I have read so many different things about sinks! (like all the things ;) I want to make sure we are getting a sink that will be relatively easy to keep clean and From what I've read, there are certain brands that scratch easily etc - so all stainless steel sinks are not equal? Are all 18 guage stainless sinks created equal? Ruvati or Kohler or Elkay? Budget wise we are just looking for the best value for the best fit.


visually I prefer rectangular clean lines (not overly round or curved)


Does anyone have a specific recommendation? thank you!!


https://www.build.com/product/summary/1797495?uid=4249321


https://www.build.com/product/summary/1456339?uid=3419491&jmtest=gg-gbav2_3419491&inv2=1&&&&&&source=gg-gba-pla_3419491!c1707673107!a69500367114!dc!ng&gclid=CjwKCAjw8-OhBhB5EiwADyoY1WoGyodf5YLAceyjj0GuTsXtSRlGeJ_bxNEaAmiMyKW-IDOE8jWJ1xoC4IEQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


https://www.build.com/product/summary/561752?uid=166725


Comments (66)

  • Mary Elizabeth
    last year
    last modified: last year

    I may be a lone dissenter here, but the single bowl sink does not work for me. We are currently staying with one of our sons who has the large single sink.

    Here's the problem - if I need hot, soapy water for something, invariably, the sink is empty; but if I need to pour something out (pasta) or rinse dirty dishes, the sink is full. I'm constantly changing it out!

    A low divide would solve all of these issues, AND still be able to handle the oversized pots & pans when needed.

  • PRO
    BeverlyFLADeziner
    last year

    Mary Elizabeth, come on now! That's what Rubbermaid dishpans are for.


    Personally, I'm not a fan of the SS sinks. I don't like their appearance over time.





    tiffnthor thanked BeverlyFLADeziner
  • Mary Elizabeth
    last year

    @BeverlyFLADeziner, well yes, that could work, but I'm totally a "less is more" person. I hate clutter - especially in the kitchen.

    I have both a stainless steel sink in my kitchen and a Blanco sink in my laundry room. I prefer the SS.

  • Buehl
    last year
    last modified: last year

    I'm with Mary Elizabeth -- the last thing I need is to find someplace to store yet another thing in my Kitchen! For a Cleanup Sink, I much prefer a double-bowl sink. The larger bowl in our sink fits everything except the 3' wide refrigerator shelf -- all my pots/pans (including handles), cookie sheets, roasting pan, Vent-A-Hood insert, refrigerator bins & half-shelves, etc. I don't need a single bowl sink! (That 3' wide shelf wouldn't fit in most single-bowl sinks either.)

    Again, it's a personal preference and no one's preference is "better" or "more important" than everyone else's.

    My sink:




    Large bowl:


    Small bowl:


  • Beatrix
    last year
    last modified: last year

    This forum convinced me to get a single bowl and I'm so grateful I listened. I can pour pasta water, drain cans of tomatoes and keep things tidy during prep and cleanup just fine. It involves changing your mindset and organizing your tasks - but it's actually very simple: nothing clean is ever left languishing. Easy Peazy. It's amazing to not be banging into that divider every 5 seconds. Just saying.

    I installed a single bowl stainless Elkay in the kitchen and a single bowl stainless Ruvati in the laundry room the same day. Both 16 gauge. Been using the Elkay in the kitchen daily. Watered 3 plants in the Ruvati in the laundry room without the bottom grid and put a few small scratches in it. (user error) Both are beautiful sinks but you can see where the extra $500 went into on the Elkay.


    ETA - all stainless will scratch.

    tiffnthor thanked Beatrix
  • Lori
    last year

    @Beatrix I posted a question to you on another feed, but it looks like you answered it below and you're happy with your Elkay 16 ga Iconix. I'm having trouble finding one online that's not delayed in shipping. Can you tell me where you purchased your sink? Thank you.

  • PRO
    JAN MOYER
    last year

    The fine allover scratches on the sink bottom are NOT to viewed as flaw or gouge. Frankly, the more they accumulate the less you notice at all.

    It's a sink. It is meant to be used as one. Clean and lustrous, is not synonymous with out of the box , off the assembly line perfection. Nothing is that for any length of time. Nothing.

  • PRO
    Sabrina Alfin Interiors
    last year

    @cupofkindnessgw unfortunately I don't have the model number of my Kohler sink. It came with our unit. BTW, this is not a dig against Kohler sinks in general--I specify them often--but just this one in particular.

  • ci_lantro
    last year

    I replaced a 60/40 cast iron Kohler sink with a single bowl small radius 18 ga Kraus sink. Right rear corner drain. I am very pleased with the Kraus. Quite sturdy, doesn't sound tinny, good slope so water drains fine. Yes, you have to chase food bits to the drain--It is a big sink so to be expected. Avoid the zero radius corner sinks--that is clean folded 90 degree corners.

    Initially thought that the sink I was getting was 16 ga when I ordered it. Realized while in transit that is was 18 ga. So I thought that I would return it.

    Turns out that, IMO, 18 ga is fine with a welded sink. (Remember, I was replacing a cast iron tank as my point of comparison.) I suppose maybe 18 ga. is not so great in sinks that are pressed/ molded/ drawn to form the bowls as those areas are less than 18 ga after the sink is formed.

  • bry911
    last year

    As I have mentioned before, I hate single bowl sinks. They are impractical for the way I use a sink and my sink usage can’t be that abnormal. So I am convinced that a large number of people choose to live with a single bowl sink that doesn’t work efficiently for them.

  • M Miller
    last year
    last modified: last year

    @bry911 - I don't think so. Too many people come on this forum to say that once they switched to a single bowl sink, they wouldn't go back to a double bowl sink. Also @Joseph Corlett, LLC's statistics that he has posted in this thread and other threads of the numbers of people disliking their double bowl sinks to such a degree that they are willing to pay to have him replace it with a single bowl sink, and I know that is not inexpensive.

    Everyone works differently in their kitchen. An analogous example is that I dislike induction cooktops. The percentage of people who dislike induction cooktops once they have them is very small, but there certainly are a number of them. I think there is a percentage of people who now have a single bowl sink and preferred the double bowl sink, but it is small in comparison to people who changed to a single bowl sink and prefer it. I have no statistical analysis on this because that would be impossible to garner from an anonymous social media platform; I am going by the comments over the many years I have been on this forum as well as what @Joseph Corlett, LLC has reported for his business for many years.

  • AnnKH
    last year

    When we remodeled our kitchen, we went from a builder grade 50/50 to a 60/40 offset. The larger bowl was MUCH larger than the 50/50 (even though the sink fit in a 30" cabinet), and the small bowl was plenty big. We had the disposal in the small side, since that's where we typically prepped. After 7 years we moved; when we remodel this kitchen (with a 30-yr-old 50/50), I'd buy the same sink again in a heartbeat.


    I've been reading here for years, and recognize the majority preference for single sinks, but it's hard to imagine I'd like any sink as much as the 60/40 we had. I've never felt the need to soak cookie sheets, and I am not interested in storing a dishpan.

  • vinmarks
    last year

    @bry911 Not for me. I had a Blanco Wave 1 and 3/4 double bowl sink in my previous house. We never used the smaller side. in our current house we put a 32 inch single bowl sink and I love it. Would never go back to double bowl. There is no right or wrong. It is all about how you use your sink, i think more people just live with double bowl sinks because that is all they know.

  • bry911
    last year

    @M Miller & @vinmarks - With respect, your posts don't really respond to mine. I didn't say that people don't like their single bowl sinks, or that they regret having them. Nor did I say that they were not popular. I said that I believe single bowl sinks lead many people to use that part of their kitchen less efficiently.

    This has been discussed too many times at this point so I see little point in rehashing it. I need access to a sink to place certain utensils and some dishes in it, while still leaving room for draining various pastas. During prep I need space to wash foods while still having a place to wash my hands. I don't believe that the average person washes large items more often than they drain pastas.

    People often value additional capacity despite it being nearly useless. The automobile industry has made a killing selling urban 4x4's that people love and never use. So I don't find it at all odd that people love sinks that will hold a cookie sheet even though they almost never do and completely ignore the limits that they are likely to encounter more often.

    ----

    Since we are on this topic... again. Someone will post about how they never put dishes in the sink, they always go directly to the dishwasher. Which is objectively and significantly less efficient than loading the dishwasher fewer times. People are allowed to load the dishwasher every two minutes if they want, but people are also allowed to find that annoying.

    We have had years of experience with single bowl sinks and don't want one again.

  • PRO
    JAN MOYER
    last year
    last modified: last year

    It's a sort of free country. Have whatever you can buy!

    I believe a lot of folks get used to things that are actually inconvenient in method, and suffer messy/ugly sink areas as they prep, OR clean up.

    Fascinating to me, that someone "treasuring" a brand new kitchen, sets soon to ( jmo) ugly habits such as a continual side show of washed pots, pans, and lord knows what else sitting sink side morning to evening on a mat or in a drainer.

    That statement will unleash the torrent of how to wash dishes comments, what is clean enough, why folks do it, how hard it is to "store and hide" dishes needing a wash and God knows what else. So I'll say right here: )

    Unless you or someone else had a heart attack in the middle of meal clean up, and that means ANY meal? Just finish the task and put them all away. However/whichever method you choose to do it.

    Thank you! Bonus is a lovely clean kitchen.

  • bry911
    last year
    last modified: last year

    @Joseph Corlett, LLC - I cook with PTFE coated pans, which shouldn't go in the dishwasher. So how do I clean my non-stick pans without handwashing them and without putting them in the dishwasher?

    @JAN MOYER - It is funny to me that this forum is all about function over form until someone chooses to leave a pan in a dish drainer in a kitchen...

    Seriously, here is an average day in my home, my wife will eat a bagel in the morning and I eat three eggs. I wash the pan that I cook the eggs in immediately, as we do with all pots and pans, prior to even eating. Typically the pans will be washed while still hot. Other dishes are then put in the sink. Every day those dishes that sit in the sink all day long are 1 glass, 1 bowl, 2 eight inch plates, 2 knives, and 2 forks. It is far from a sink full of dishes sitting there all day. The small non-stick skillet and the cooking spatula (or chopsticks) that I use are washed immediately.

    We typically do a lot of prep and most nights we will use multiple cutting boards, but usually only one knife, if we are having any type of cheese we will need a grater, etc. We don't typically follow recipes and may chop herbs last minute to add something to a dish. Dinner is served and the last person to finish dinner loads the dishwasher for the night. The dishwasher is ran overnight.

    I admit that 1 glass, 1 bowl, 2 eight inch plates, 2 knives, and 2 forks is not a lot of dishes to move out of the sink if we want to wash foods (which we will), but why should we do that? Let me be more specific, why should we take the extra effort to load those few dishes into the dishwasher every night so that I can wash something ever so slightly more conveniently once a month? It seems an absolutely silly waste to me.

    ETA: Just to be clear... I am not saying that anyone who cooks and handles cleanup differently than I do is doing something wrong. If what you are doing works for you then please keep doing that and I am not judging you. However, the way we handle dishes is similar to the way our parents handled dishes and similar to the way both of our extended families handle dishes. I am struggling to believe that my whole family is in the 2.5% of people who cook this way and I managed to marry someone whose whole family is in the 2.5% of people who cook this way. I find it easier to believe that people don't benefit as much from the single bowl sink as they like to believe they do.

  • Beatrix
    last year

    @bry911 - I had many of the same thoughts as you before going from my divided sink to a single. But let me pose a few questions to you. Not trying to debate, I understand everyone prefers to do things differently and that's perfectly ok. I'd like to illustrate how a divided sink is simply a psychological security blanket of sorts. An illusion, if you will. Let me explain:


    In your daily scenario as you describe, you have the following reoccurring dirty dishes in your sink at any given time: 1 glass, 1 bowl, 2 eight inch plates, 2 knives, and 2 forks. It's inconvienent to move these dirty items into the dishwasher for whatever reason. You don't feel like it or whatever, no problem. It's dinner prep time and now you'd like to wash some produce. I'd like to remind you again, the current lot of dishes in the sink are dirty and will need washed at some point in the foreseeable future. Would it be really bad if you washed that produce and some of the produce water were to splash on those dirty dishes laying there? What if you needed to drain a can of beans or rinse some rice? Again - That current lot of dishes is not clean. And if they are clean, they need to be relocated out of the sink. If someone comes along to wash their hands, I don't want those dirty paws anywhere near my clean stuff anyhow, divider or no. I don't use a dish drainer (because looking at all of that on the counter gives me anxiety) but it only takes 30 seconds to dry something with a towel and put it away, then it's out of my life until next time. I wasn't raised this way. It's actually a habit I picked up from my mother-in-law who cleaned homes as her career. I soak my pots and pans individually, no need to fill the whole sink. I don't put any cookware in my dishwasher either. I do think there's quality of life value in fostering good habits and taking care of our things. A good pan is not cheap to replace, as you know.


    A single bowl is so large and unobstructed, I can sort of create "zones" within it much like a divided sink except the physical barrier is invisible, making it so much easier to navigate around the sink freely. This is why I was saying earlier that there is a psychological factor at play here; we create our own illusions, no? You want to open a package of drippy raw chicken into the sink, but your wife's 7 am bagel plate is still in there? The plate may get some chicken juice on it. (deep breath) I'd have to sanitize the whole entire sink anyway after opening up raw poultry so whether there's a divider there or not really makes no difference. But honestly who wants to work in an area that's cluttered with so many other things? Why make it harder when it doesn't have to be? Those sink grids for the bottom keep items up off the floor and you can drain pasta with other stuff in there just fine. The water never even touches the stuff, I promise. But remember - if it did, that stuff is getting washed or going into the dishwasher.


    With a single bowl, you're thinking outside the box, organizing your tasks on your own. Sometimes it may take a little extra foresight. In a divided sink, you're beating yourself up against that barrier in the middle, thinking you "need" it, but really it's just holding you back.


    I know I won't convince you and that's ok. I appreciate nuanced discussion on weird topics such as this.


    Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. :)

  • vinmarks
    last year
    last modified: last year

    @bry911 We have a prep sink so our single bowl sink is strictly for cleanup. We cleanup as we go along. Anything that can go in the dishwasher gets put in there when we are done using it. What I dont understand is why you would leave those few dishes in your sink when it takes 2 seconds to put them in the dishwasher. So you use something and plop it in the sink only to later plop it in the dishwasher?

    Recently we were without our prep sink for 2 weeks due to a faucet leak under our cabinet. We only had the single bowl cleanup sink to work with. We were still able to function and still do everything we normally do. We could still prep, wash our hands or drain pasta.

    We cook almost every night and use many of the same things as you. By the time dinner is over there is only a few things that need to be washed and it is usually only the pots or pans that we used for cooking. Everything else has already been placed in the dishwasher after it was used or handwashed after it was used. I do not understand why you would plop things meant for the dishwasher in the sink when you can easily plop them into the dishwasher.

    it sounds to me like you plop everything in your sink even those things going into the dishwasher and wait until your sink is piled with dishes before loading the dishwasher. We do not operate like that. Those breakfast dishes used in the morning would not be put in the sink. After we used them they would go right into the dishwasher. I see why you think you need a double bowl sink.

    You have said now that people with single bowl sinks don’t use that part of the kitchen efficiently and that they do not benefit from the single bowl sink as they would like to believe. To me you are the one that is not using that area efficiently. You are making it like it is this big effort to put a few dishes into the dishwaher when you are done using them so instead you plop them into the sink only to have to plop them into the dishwasher later. Sorry I don’t get this at all.

    I do not have a problem at all with things sitting on a dish mat to dry. We always have stuff sitting out to dry.

  • bry911
    last year

    @Beatrix asked, "Would it be really bad if you washed that produce and some of the produce water were to splash on those dirty dishes laying there?"


    It isn't the produce water splashing on the dishes that is the concern, it is debris from the dishes splashing on to the produce. I prefer to wash produce in a clean sink where if the produce leaves my hand it is falling into a clean sink and not dirty dishes. We often use a cutting board that fits over the sink and scrape vegetables that have been prepped into a colander in the sink and I miss the colander often enough that picking up food off dirty dishes would happen.

    My large bowl is 22" wide, if I want I can create invisible zones in it. What exactly can you do in one bowl that I can't do in two?


  • PRO
    JAN MOYER
    last year

    Lol..............

    As I predicted. It depends your anxiety level for things not in their LOGICAL, and tidy place.

    Given the intense scrutiny most give to storage in the kitchen? Lets say this:

    The drawer and size and depth of those and cabinets above? That steel box that you debate over many forums here as to Bosch or whatever other? The former is the best spot for clean and the latter is the SINGLE best holding spot for minimal dirty dishes. It's the single most efficient use of water and energy. It is the hottest water with no gloves or drying out your hands, It takes about two minutes max to load, three minutes max to unload a dishwasher ( another topic for another day!!!) Clearly..... I am insane or neurotically neat

  • bry911
    last year
    last modified: last year

    @vinmarks said, "We have a prep sink so our single bowl sink is strictly for cleanup."

    So... You have two sink bowls that are separated a significant amount, but you don't believe other people should have a prep sink and a cleanup sink that are separated by a small amount? I could completely understand if the conversation started with, "Do you have a prep sink?"

    It sounds to me like you plop everything in your sink even those things going into the dishwasher and wait until your sink is piled with dishes before loading the dishwasher.

    LOL... When you change clothes do you march your naked behind to the washing machine and place your worn clothes in there too? I mean do you just let your dirty undergarments pile up before loading the washer? Seriously... that is such loaded language, as if we are dirty people because our large sink holds a few dishes before loading it. This is why I hate this discussion so much, because the people on this board who are absolutely PUSHING SINGLE BOWL SINKS can't seem to do it without acting like the rest of us are living our lives in squalor.

    Peace out...

  • Beatrix
    last year
    last modified: last year

    @bry911 My large bowl is 22" wide, if I want I can create invisible zones in it. What exactly can you do in one bowl that I can't do in two?


    I completely understand your point. We can technically do all of the same things in your sink and my sink. What I'm trying to say is, I'm not banging into that divider every 10 seconds like you are. I'm "free to move about the cabin" completely unobstructed. There's lots of time-saving value in that for me. I cut my cleanup time down significantly when I can use every last inch of the sink. A divider takes up quite a bit of real estate which I can be using more effectively on my own.

    You and I prep vegetables very differently and that's ok, everyone has their preferences. Not that anyone cares, but I like to use my cutting board on the counter next to the sink right above my pull-out trash can. That way I'm not touching the scraps twice.


    I do not think you're dirty or live in squalor.


    Edited for formatting

  • vinmarks
    last year

    @bry911 You are the one telling people with single bowl sinks that they don't use that area of their kitchen efficiently and that they do not benefit from the single bowl sink as they would like to believe. I am defending why that is not true.


    I am not trying to sell single bowl sinks as the end all be all. If a 2 bowl sink works for you then that's great. I've had both and prefer single bowl. I never said you lived in squalor nor did I say double sinks were horrible. I also didn't say you were dirty for piling dishes in the sink. I said i don't understand why you wouldn't just put them in the dishwasher when it is right there. If you want to pile dishes in your sink and load at the end of the night then have at it. We do not operate that way. I also stated I lived without my prep sink for 2 weeks and had no problems using just my single bowl sink for everything. I also spend a week each month at my daughters apartment which has a shallow single bowl sink with no prep sink. Still prefer that over double bowl.


    You are the one who is trying to sell double bowl sinks. You are the one who stated you hated single bowl sinks and that single bowl sinks are impractical based on how you use your sink. You insinuated that most people use their sinks the way you do and somehow they are compromising by having a single bowl sink.


    And no I do not throw my clothes in the washing machine when i take them off. My washer is not right where i take my clothes off like the dishwasher is right next to the sink.


    Why not just state how a double bowl sink works for you instead of making assumption about how single bowl sink users don't use their sink area efficiently.

  • bry911
    last year

    @vinmarks - You are the one telling people with single bowl sinks that they don't use that area of their kitchen efficiently and that they do not benefit from the single bowl sink as they would like to believe.


    I didn't actually say that. I noted that many of those who have single bowl sinks don't use that area of their kitchen efficiently. Which is different than "all users" which your response implied.

    However, I will argue that you, in particular, do not use that area of your kitchen efficiently. Whether you like it or not efficient has a particular meaning. You noted, "We do not operate like that. Those breakfast dishes used in the morning would not be put in the sink. After we used them they would go right into the dishwasher." It is perfectly understandable that you put your dishes in the dishwasher when you use them, however, that is quite literally not what efficient means. I recommend Motion and Time Study: Design and Measurement of Work if you want to further understand why you lose efficiency.

    I have never said that efficiency should be the deciding factor in everyone's kitchen.

    ---

    From the beginning of this debate I have continually said that people can value different things. I had a rather bad fall tripping over an open dishwasher door. So, I do not like people loading and unloading the dishwasher piecemeal. We load the dishwasher in the evening and unload it in the morning. It is absolutely fine if you choose to do otherwise and nowhere have I implied that it isn't.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    last year

    "This is why I hate this discussion so much, because the people on this board who are absolutely PUSHING SINGLE BOWL SINKS can't seem to do it without acting like the rest of us are living our lives in squalor."


    I've done no such thing. I simply convey the results of the marketplace. People who choose to change sinks overwhelmingly switch from double to single.


    I don't care what you get, just as long as you call me to change it.

  • vinmarks
    last year

    @bry911 So your telling me I'm not efficient because I place dishes into a machine meant to wash dishes? Ummm ok. I am not the one complaining about single bowl sinks and having to move dishes out of the way to use them.


    So your preference is to pile the sink with dirty dishes that sit there all day because it's more efficient? I have never heard anything so ridiculous in my life. Eventually those dishes need to be put in the dishwasher so wether you put them in right after use or leave them until the evening you still need to put them in there. Meanwhile your dirty dishes are taking up sink space because you chose to leave them in there when the dishwasher is right there. I don't need to read about efficiency because frankly I don't care. It takes 2 seconds to open the dishwasher and place something in it. I also prefer not to leave food laden dishes sitting all day in my sink.


    We run our dishwasher at night and empty in the morning too. Sometimes we run the dishwasher twice a day.


    I don't care what kind of sink someone wants but your arguments against single bowl sinks are based solely on you leaving dirty dishes in the sink all day therefore with a single bowl sink it would require you to move dishes to use your sink for other things. I see why you prefer a double bowl sink.


  • PRO
    JAN MOYER
    last year

    As I said....... I am neurotically neat. Lol.

  • cupofkindnessgw
    last year

    @Sabrina Alfin Interiors


    Thank you for your reply, does this look like your sink? It has very crisp corners and a small radius. I've ordered it and if it's difficult to clean or for water to drain, I'd rather buy something else. My sink is in a corner so 29" is the very largest I can install. Thank you!





    Strive 29" Stainless Sink

  • tiffnthor
    Original Author
    last year

    WOW!!!!!! Intense Debates!!!!! OK.... I AM GETTING A SINGLE BOWL SINK!!! ! HAHAHAH. no seriously... I am... So Kraus / Kohler / Elkay? 16 gauge... which is the magic choice? :) .Thanks for all the awesome perspectives. I def dont want a rubber bucket in our lovely sink. but something like that silver rectangular posted by @BeverlyFLADeziner could be a good solution! actually what got me was thinking about how often my husband empties dishes in the wrong side of our current 50/50 sink no matter how often I try to explain that its clogging our drains...

  • vinmarks
    last year

    @tiffnthor I can only comment on Kraus. I have 2. A 32 inch and then a 20 inch D-shaped prep sink. I have been very happy with both. I just didn't see the need to pay the prices some of the other sinks cost. I wasn't sure how I would like the grids that go in the bottom but figured I could always just remove them if I didn't like them but I actually love them. I don't use a sponge holder with my cleanup sink anymore and just leave the sponge sitting on the grid so it gets air flow all around. The sinks clean up easily and drain well. You probably can't go wrong with any of them.

    tiffnthor thanked vinmarks
  • RoyHobbs
    last year
    last modified: last year

    “So Kraus / Kohler / Elkay? 16 gauge... which is the magic choice?”

    I don’t have Kraus or Kohler, though I’ve read many good things about Kraus, and can’t recall anyone saying anything bad about Kraus. Kohler seems very overpriced to me, since you can get as good or better sinks for less money, just MHO.

    We have the Elkay Crosstown single bowl sink, 16 gauge, and invaluable corner drain. However ours is the stainless steel apron front (to add yet another choice to your array of choices).

    We’ve had it for several years and not one complaint. The apron front choice was due to its being more ergonomic for backs for those of us aging in place (that’s fancy talk for getting old). We are not sink grid people and don’t care about scratches. As repeated often here, the scratches blend together after a little while and you don’t see them.

    It looks like Elkay only offers the Crosstown 32” with corner drain as a workstation style, #EFRUFF30179RW (apron front) or #EFRU30169RTWC (undermount). I don’t care for the doodads and ledge of a workstation style, but many people enjoy them. The 16 gauge Crosstown non-workstation sink with rear drain (also good) is #EFRU311610TC.

    Edited to add: we have never, in 30 years (I am guessing) of having single bowl sinks, used any kind of bucket or rubber dishpan inside the sink. Everyone has different habits, and I think the debate here is like asking if you prefer vanilla or chocolate ice cream. I would never judge how others use their sinks and kitchens, I can only say we’ve never used a separate dishpan inside the sink, so you may be the same, or you may like a rubber dishpan, or you may like the accessories of the workstation. It’s nice to have all those choices.

  • bry911
    last year
    last modified: last year

    So your[sic] telling me I'm not efficient because I place dishes into a machine meant to wash dishes?

    I strongly suspect (and hope) this is just an argument in bad faith. It is fallacious reasoning. How efficiently you operate various appliances in your kitchen isn't in any way related to whether you are using them for the purpose intended.

    Here's an example... If you stop and fill up your car every five miles you are fueling your car less efficiently than someone who stops and fills up their car when it is nearing empty. "So you're telling me that I'm not efficient because I place gas into a machine meant to use gas," is not a defense to the efficient operation of the car.

    your arguments against single bowl sinks are based solely on you leaving dirty dishes in the sink all day

    That was one of the reasons I gave, it is not my sole argument at all. I have made this argument several times in the past and certainly alluded to it above. I noted that "We typically do a lot of prep and most nights we will use multiple cutting boards, but usually only one knife, if we are having any type of cheese we will need a grater, etc. We don't typically follow recipes and may chop herbs last minute to add something to a dish." So the dishes that we generate while we are cooking (NOTE: these are not left in the sink all day) go directly into a sink bowl and we can still drain and collect pasta water in the other sink bowl.

    Furthermore, the pearl clutching is ridiculous... Dishes... in the sink... all day... when you are at work and no one is home...

  • tiffnthor
    Original Author
    last year

    thanks everyone! totally helped me clarify our decision 10 fold!

  • vinmarks
    last year
    last modified: last year

    @bry911 Pearl clutching? Someone is clutching pearls and it's certainly not me. Because you want to leave dirty dishes sitting in your sink all day you are fantastic. Because I choose to put dishes in the dishwasher I am clutching pearls? Got it.

    Both my husband and myself work from home. No I don't want dirty dishes sitting in the sink all day. I especially don't want to deal with a sink full of dishes come dinner time when we do bigger meals with more pots and pans.

    Yes fueling a car every 5 miles is equivalent to putting dishes in a dishwasher. Please!

    Everything you say you do with double bowl sink can be done in a single bowl sink. Do you think those with single bowl sinks can't chop something last minute and still drain pasta? Are you collecting pasta water from the sink? We collect pasta water right from the pot before draining pasta. We use multiple cutting boards too and cheese garters etc.. Guess where they go? Into the dishwasher. You have to put items into your second bowl during dinner prep because the other bowl is full of dirty dishes.


    In the end it really doesn't matter. OP already made their choice for a single bowl sink and I am assuming it is based on how they use a sink. I'll go back to clutching my pearls.

  • PRO
    Sabrina Alfin Interiors
    last year

    Yes, that looks to be the same one @cupofkindnessgw. I don’t recommend it.

  • cupofkindnessgw
    last year

    @Sabrina Alfin Interiors A thousand thank you's for answering my question so quickly. My sink may have been shipped but once I receive it, I'll return it and reorder another type.


    @tiffnthorThank you so much for posting this question. Sabrina has excellent taste and outstanding advice, always delivered graciously, I'm so happy I heard her opinion on the Kohler sink before we installed it. : )

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    last year

    " My sink is in a corner so 29" is the very largest I can install."


    Let's see your layout and fillers (if any) please. I've put 33" sinks into 27" angled cabinets.

  • PRO
    JAN MOYER
    last year
    last modified: last year

    "How efficiently you operate various appliances in your kitchen isn't in any way related to whether you are using them for the purpose intended."

    Of course it IS true that when you put the a ten lb. rib roast in the fridge to sear, the fridge will run efficiently as it should, will be cold, and you will end three hours later with a raw hunk of meat. Opening the door every ten minutes to check the roast will not speed the desired result , though it WILL alter the temperature in the fridge for a moment.

    The intended purpose of a dishwasher was to do what its name says. You choose the time. Opening and closing the door four times in prepping a meal, will not alter the non existent water temperature, nor the debris on dishes prior to engaging the appliance for the desired result which is clean dishes , glass ware, flat ware, pots and pans.

    I just got up, so I am not yet wearing any pearls.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    last year

    If you've got 3" fillers on each side of a corner cabinet, you can use the space the fillers provide to get a larger sink.

  • cupofkindnessgw
    last year

    @Joseph Corlett, LLC,


    Here you go, thank you for your help! I have shifted from stainless to cast iron/enamel, many of the ss sinks I looked into have the flat bottom/drainage issues. We had a Kohler Irontones prep sink in our last house and it was flawless, though 20 years of heavy use did wear down the shine. The Cape Dory seems a good choice for our situation.


    The 3" spacers are intentional. The current stainless steel double bowl sink inside measurement is approximately 29" by 15" and the 40 year old adjacent cabinet sides have been modified (basically they gouged partical board to fit the front corners of the sink). New cabs will be all plywood construction. We are putting a 20 gallon RO tank at the corner of the angle, underneath the counter, so we are pretty much taking apart the back of the 42" angled sink base to accommodate that system. It's a brand new angle sink base size from Kraftmaid. Perfect fit for our little kitchen. Lucky me! Thanks again Joseph.









    Cape Dory 33" Sink


    Cape Dory Dimensions



  • cupofkindnessgw
    last year

    @Joseph Corlett, LLC . The front face of the sink base is 25.5" across. I've ordered two doors to replace the single door that is standard with this cabinet. TIA.




  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    last year

    You'll scoop the plywood cabinet sides to accommodate the new sink. It won't affect the structure or performance of the cabinet.


    I'd lay this out full scale to verify the largest sink possible. The 33" will probably fit. Strap, don't clip or block, your sink in place please. Or with cast iron, a Pete's Sink Mount Kit.

  • akrogirl32
    last year

    Bry911, you are definitely alone. We also went from a single bowl to a double bowl sink. We currently have an older Blanco 36”, and would like to go to a 70/30 42” or 48”.

  • bry911
    last year
    last modified: last year

    The problem with these discussions: Here is a picture of this morning’s dishes that will be left neatly in the sink (the Pottery Barn plates are starting to show their age).



    These are sitting on an 8.5” x 11” piece of paper for perspective. These are the actual dishes with the food residue of this morning’s breakfast for my wife and I still left on them. Those dishes will take up about 25.7% of one of the bowls in my sink, since my sink is several inches taller than the glass, none of those dishes will be visible as you enter the kitchen area. Yet this is portrayed as “piling up dishes all day long.” If your position depends using charged language to negatively characterize a few dishes occupying less than 26% of a sink for ten hours, then your position really isn’t that strong.

    In furtherance of that point… Getting gas more often than you need to is less efficient than getting gas only when you need to, and loading the dishwasher more often than you need to is less efficient than loading the dishwasher only when you need to. That is simply the meaning of the word efficient and is really not debatable. There are people who are convinced that the earth is not a spheroid, but even they don’t debate the meaning of the word spheroid. It is a fact that loading your dishwasher every time you use a plate is less efficient than letting some plates accumulate before loading. You certainly can reasonably argue that you are willing to give up that efficiency for the benefits you get, which is a completely reasonable position. However, if you are unwilling to accept any criticism of your position then you are far too invested in your single bowl sink.

    Every time someone posts in support of double bowl sinks the single bowl sink brigade figures that is an opportunity to educate another poor unenlightened soul… we are not ignorant of single bowl sinks, we just don’t like them.

  • bry911
    last year
    last modified: last year

    My single bowl sink experience: More than 20 years ago we were restoring / remodeling an old home that had very limited sink space and went with a single bowl apron front sink, in order to maximize the sink space. When we chose our next remodel, we stuck with single bowl sinks because we enjoyed the size of the single bowl sink in our old home and thought a bigger version of that would be even better. We were pretty much single bowl sink converts at that time. Then we moved to the Middle East and were introduced to Korean single bowl sinks. It was a better version of the workstation sinks that are becoming available in the U.S. as it uses rails instead of ledges and generally has multiple rails, it also has a removable basin and unlike those in the U.S. it is designed to ride on the rails and has a strainer basket in it, so it essentially converts a single bowl sink to a double bowl sink.



    We quickly stopped removing the removable basin. It just stayed in our sink and we just used our single bowl sink as a double bowl sink all the time. In an average year, we might have converted back to a single bowl setup for four to eight hours. The vast majority of the time we just left the additional basin in the sink and used both. Just to be clear, it was not to hold dishes all day long as the housekeeper would load the morning dishes in the dishwasher. It was just more convenient for us to cook with the two basins than it was to cook with one. Therefore, when it came time to purchase a sink for our U.S. home we eliminated the single bowl sink, because that just seems like a great example of the tail wagging the dog.

    I am not saying that everyone who has a single bowl sink would benefit from a going back to a double bowl sink. However, I do not believe the way we use our sink is abnormal and therefore it makes sense that if 97.5% of people are picking single bowl sinks then a significant number of those people are not benefiting from that choice as much as they believe.

    My experience and opinion are completely reasonable and there is no need to attack that opinion and experience just because it differs from yours.

  • Jennifer Hogan
    last year

    Can we put the single bowl - double bowl argument to rest.


    There is no right or wrong answer.

    On Houzz it seems that a single bowl sink is the only answer, but I am not sure the people answering design dilemmas create a statistically valid demographic spread.

    Even @Joseph Corlett, LLC statistics are pretty meaningless without the proper demographic context for the area he serves.


    I didn't find a good USA TODAY poll or other national poll with a decent cross section of the population, but was able to find a poll from Oregon Live.

    https://www.oregonlive.com/hg/2013/01/do_you_like_a_double_or_single.html


    There survey wasn't well written, using 4 questions to evaluate 3 options, but the breakdown below is rolled up to the three pertinent groupings:




    Single bowl without a prep sink and double bowl are a pretty even split.

    Add in those with a single bowl and prep sink (still using two separate bowls) and two bowls wins.


    Even with survey answers - that really only tells us what the majority of people want, not what actually works the best or is the most efficient or why they made the decision.


    Do you own a dishwasher? How much time do you spend cooking and baking? What types of meals do you make? How many people are you feeding every night? Are you kosher? These things make a difference on what will work best for you.



  • cupofkindnessgw
    last year

    My biggest problem regarding all the other factors discussed here is that I procrastinate and allow dirty dishes to stack up in and around the sink. The very best option for me is a clean sink so I am ready for the task at hand.


    @Joseph Corlett, LLC I agree and will pursue this path... order the Cape Dory sink and layout the template. Plus a HUSH or Pete's kit. Thank you!

  • PRO
    JAN MOYER
    last year

    "My biggest problem regarding all the other factors discussed here is that I procrastinate and allow dirty dishes to stack up in and around the sink."

    There is a really great series of books on this that you'd enjoy, by Sandra Felton. ( "The Messies vs. the Cleanies"

    But in the end it boils down to this:

    The cleanie simply gets on with the thing that for her ( or him ), is far more ANNOYING to look at than the effort or minimal time required for the task at hand to be erased from thought or view..

    The messie......says "I'll do this later, I can't do it perfectly right now" . You can bet she'll do it so perfectly, it will take five times what it took the cleanie to do same when she finally does get to it! But in the meantime, the ugliness/messy thing remains, the task may grow yet larger, and in some cases, "later" never, even arrives. By then.....there are other, more difficult tasks. And on it goes.

    It is well worth reading: ) No matter which side you're on.