Software
Houzz Logo Print
hebs820

How to place outlets within 24" of a sink (with dishwashers)

2 years ago

I need some design advice from experts here.


I am planning a kitchen remodel and was told by our contractor that our local code requires outlets within 24" of the edge of a sink. The problem is the following:


- I plan to have a window in front of the sink that extends 3' on either side of the sink and extends all the way down to the counter (no backsplash area to add outlets)

- We plan to have dishwashers on each side of the sink that are roughly 24" in width

- I'd prefer to avoid pop up outlets, and also don't know if these are even feasible with the diswashers


What are my options - any creative options for outlets? I'm attaching an image of the cabinet layout - note that the design is old so only includes one dishwasher but the right cabinets will also be a dishwasher.


Thanks in advance for any tips / suggestions!




Comments (31)

  • PRO
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Surface mount plug strip on the right side, just under the countertop overhang. See my showroom display left side? Thats an Angled Plug Strip (APT) by Task Lighting. You can buy it at Hardware Resources or here on Houzz.


  • PRO
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Make the window smaller. It's going to have to be, structurally anyway. Either separated into 3, or 2 smaller ones. Go with the 2 smaller ones option. You will not like your sink water running into the window well. Windows are not meant to be waterproof from the interior, so you will need to do specialty waterproofing prep below the counter application.

  • 2 years ago

    The window won't be smaller. It will be a pass through counter so we're prepared with respect to water running around.

  • PRO
    2 years ago

    Do a 30" sink base with a 27" large single sink. Then do fillers with filler overlays and do outlets behind/inside the filler overlays....liket his pic I found online.


  • 2 years ago

    Love this idea, Kitchen Place

  • PRO
    2 years ago

    How about calling the town and asking specifically for your plan if you need that due to the window placement?

    I have seen folks put in large bay windows over their sinks with the counter going into them and don't see any outlets until past the window.

  • PRO
    2 years ago

    Many times, the outlets are mounted in the window sill or trim. Because the NEC is a nationwide code, and applies everywhere.

  • 2 years ago

    You are not using 2 42” windows there. Not like that. It is not feasable. Nor is a pass through going to work.

  • 2 years ago

    ^^^ everything is feasible. it usually comes down to budget.

  • 2 years ago

    Sure, enough money can make just about anything happen. Except bug eradication. You are not going to eliminate mosquitos, flies, mud wasps, and all the rest. Giving them an personal invitation to indoor living is never a good idea.

  • 2 years ago

    Is it code that the outlets need to be GFI if they're near water?

  • 2 years ago

    I made a removable plywood box the width of the window and maybe 4" high, installed two outlets in it fed from adjacent outlets in the wall. The window trim had not been installed yet. After I got my final electrical inspection I removed the box and the wiring and trimmed the window out.

  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    I don't get it: What electrical gadget will you be using at the sink?

    I don't have an outlet at my sink and have never wished for one near my sink.

    Make the window smaller ... You will not like your sink water running into the window well.

    I agree that the overall look would be nicer if the windows were just a tad more narrow ... that is, if you have a bit of breathing space between the windows and the cabinets.

    But you're also saying the OP should avoid the counter-depth window ... that shouldn't be a problem. What I would do is bring the sink foward just a bit ... either an apron sink or literally the cabinet pulled forward 3-4". That'd allow a bit more space behind the faucets, which would make cleaning easier.

    It will be a pass through counter so we're prepared with respect to water running around.

    You have roughly 7' of window ... is it a slider? If so, 3 1/2' to pass through. That could downsize to 3' of pass-through /6' of window without any loss of function ... and then you'd have that bit of breathing space between the cabinets and the window.

    Reaching over the sink means reaching over and down a fairly long way. I'd want a cutting board to fit over the sink so you'd have the option of setting things down a little closer to the window.

    Do a 30" sink base with a 27" large single sink.

    The sink is the single-most used item in any kitchen. This isn't where I'd compromise ... but I'd ditch the duplicate dishwasher in a heartbeat.
    I have seen folks put in large bay windows over their sinks with the counter going into them and don't see any outlets until past the window.

    I love bay windows over sinks, and this concept provides that bit of extra space behind the faucet ... but a bay window isn't going to act as a pass-though.

  • PRO
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Code is within 2' of the sink, not AT the sink. That's plenty of room in a standard design, to have the required wall outlets. TWO FEET AWAY from the sink.

  • 2 years ago

    You can put in a drawer too

    https://dockingdrawer.com/

  • 2 years ago

    Are you sure that you want your window to extend all the way down to your countertop? I would think that you would have a water issue with the sink being right there. If you reduced the height of this window, you would have a spot for your outlets.


    That said, here are some ideas. Some brands are Sillite, Trufig, Bocci, Flushtek, PlugMold, etc.


















  • 2 years ago

    Put the outlets in a drawer. If you're never or rarely going to use them, it's totally fine and completely conceals them. I did this in my kitchen to satisfy code. You do lose a small amount of drawer space, but these drawers are sizable.


    Someone asked why the code requires this. The theory is they do not want you draping an electrical cord across a sink, so instead they require it on both sides of the sink. So there is some kernel of logic to it.

  • 2 years ago

    You may not be able to put a required outlet in a drawer. Each state is different. It is not a national thing, although many states are similar

  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Counter-height windows are wonderful! Many of us have them and love them! I do, however, recommend one of the following to give you a bit more room behind the sink for (1) cleaning, (2) room for faucet handle if you have one that goes back/forward, and (3) minimize splashing the window. You should still be able to use it as a pass-through.

    • pulling the cabinets at least 3" forward from the wall (or get 27"D base cabinets)

    --or--

    • bump out the window itself 6" to 7".

    If you're doing a pass-through, the latter option would probably work better (with a sliding window).

    A sliding window is probably your best option, regardless of the option above (or neither option) b/c you don't want to hit someone in the face standing at the window with a casement (crank) window and a standard double-hung might be difficult to open/close unless you and your family are very tall.

    Some wonderful counter-height windows!


    MamaDadaPaige's Window:




    ErikaNH's Window:




    Alku05's (no bump-out):



    SnowyShasta (no bump-out):


  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    The OP has a 36" sink base in the layout. Moving down to a 33" is not that big a deal and The Kitchen Place's idea is probably the best suggestion I've seen on this thread so far.

    I have a 2-bowl cleanup sink with the larger bowl 21.5" wide and it fits everything except my 36"W refrigerator shelf (which likely would not fit in a single-bowl sink that fits in a 36" sink base since most are a couple of inches narrower than the sink base).

    All refrigerator bins, the rest of the refrigerator shelves, casserole dishes, pots & pans with handles, cookie sheets, etc., fit in the larger of the two bowls. A 30" to 33" wide sink will fit at least as much as mine!

  • 2 years ago

    Outlets in drawers can be in addition to the required ones. But they will not satisfy the readily accessible provision of the NEC.

  • 2 years ago

    Make the windows smaller. It is no big loss. Those are too large to work as intended anyway.

  • PRO
    2 years ago

    Once this is all sorted out, please post the outcome! It will be helpful for others who see this thread

  • 2 years ago

    I don't get it: What electrical gadget will you be using at the sink?

    I still want to know why anyone needs an outlet at the sink?

    You can put in a drawer too

    I wouldn't want an outlet in a drawer. I know we see pictures of it all the time, but I'm concerned about what'd be crumpled up behind the drawer ... plus the things stored in the drawer would prevent access to the outlet.

    Counter-height windows are wonderful!

    Agree, and the details you've included seem quite realistic.

    The OP has a 36" sink base in the layout. Moving down to a 33" is not that big a deal

    Let's keep in mind that a 36" sink base is going to hold a 33" sink. If she drops to a 33" sink base, she's getting a 30" sink. Big enough? We'll let the OP decide, but note that we've essentially just lost 6" of hypothetical sink. That's significant.

    I stumbled across this awesome sink/window idea today. Not for everybody, but wow is it cool.

    That IS a lovely sink, and it appears to be very functional too -- but, yeah, not all of us have the right space for that sink.

  • 2 years ago

    Mrs. Pete, he said that he was told by his contractor "that our local code requires outlets within 24" of the edge of a sink."


    He didn't say that he needed an outlet at the sink.

  • 2 years ago

    According to the drawing, you already have 3" fillers (or panels) flanking the sink base and on the end of the run. They are not dimensioned but interpolated from the 1 1/2" countertop. I think they have sloppy dimension leaders and are not panels extending to floor. Although the end panel should extend to floor.

    The transition to the sliding door needs detailed to eliminate the counter overhang if flush with door opening, if the end panel extends into the door frame (just like the counter will extend into the window sill) or ends at the wall and the door jamb material, and making the DW space 24" instead of 24 1/2" clear.

    Also the custom cabinet sizes should account for the corner cabinets being able to open fully without hitting the adjacent pulls (door or drawer).

    Verify what I am seeing on this elevation with the kitchen cabinet floor plan for discrepancies.

    NEC 210.52(C)(3) allows exception to the 24" rule around sinks just for situations like this with wide windows flush to counter. Receptacles can be installed below within 12" of the counter surface, so that suggestion flies and may work without using a smaller sink base if you verify what the elevation shows.

  • 4 days ago

    Hi J H,


    May I ask how you dealt with this issue of the 2' from sink outlet requirement? The design for my kitchen is very much like yours where the window comes down the counter. Had our designer or contractor mentioned this little regulation in the code, I might have rethought this design because I seriously don't want to drill into my counters but now the window is in place and I don't know what to do. Any help would be GREATLY GREATLY appreciated. Thanks in advance.

  • 4 days ago

    Our contractor had a conversation with the city inspector on the project about the design challenges up front to discuss what they would / wouldn't accept within the code. Where we ended up was that on the left of the sink, we put a wiremold outlet strip under the lowest shelf. We then put an outlet on the right side of the cabinets to the right of the sink. This adequatly allows power in both areas to the left and right of the sink and works great for us. It also means that we didn't need to drill into the counter to install an outlet that would get wet, dirty, etc. Not sure how it is where you're at but in cases like these, inspectors can be reasonable so you may want to have your contractor discuss the challenge with them and align on what is suitable up front if possible.

  • 4 days ago

    Thank you for the reply. So just to clarify - one the left of the sink you had shelves? And on the right you had cabinets within the 2' code range is that right? My problem is that the window spans the length of my sink wall so the only thing separating three sections of glass is the casing around them. I don't have uppers or shelves. On the left of the sink is a dishwasher like your plan and on the right, a trash pull out so I could possibly put outlets in there however, it still leaves me with the dilema of outlets on the dishwasher side. I maybe have to bring my sink run out a couple of inches like Bhuel suggested and bump out my casing 2" to hide outlets in there. I also appreciate the advice about talking to the inspectors. You are right - you never know what they will allow unless you ask.

  • 4 days ago

    Our design is nearly the same as the pic in the initial post but to the left of the sink (When facing it) we had open shelves above the sink, not cabinets. With cabinets, the outcome would have been the same, though - a strip of outlets under the cabinets. (in our case it was under the lowest shelf, which was the same height as the bottom of the cabinets would have been). When facing the sink in the picture, to the right, we put an outlet on the far right side of the cabinets. The outlet was on the outside of the cabinets, but is on the side so doesn't look out of place aesthetically. We like that it's not hidden because we use it regularly for crock pots, etc.


    Ultimately, I'd brainstorm a few ideas with your contractor and then have them talk to the inspector about what will / won't suffice.