I couldn't remember if there was something, so I went down the list of plants I've grown to see what I've lost. Actually, I am surprised the list is not longer. lol Astilbe I tried a few times without luck. Lobelia I tried twice, and Pieris I tried twice. I did try lots of Heucheras before I figured out they do not do well here. I have one left out of probably 8 different varieties I tried.

A few of these, I have no idea why they didn't work out, but most of them were just fighting against my conditions. Either hardiness or not enough sun or too dry, pH, Phlox is all about powdery mildew. Boxwood was disease.

I definitely don't dwell on it and find there are SO many plants to try and I grow a lot of plants that I just love to death, so I can't cry over the few I haven't succeeded with.

Aconitum

Tiarella

Multiple varieties of Agastache and Salvias

Amelanchier

Anthemis

Astilbe

Boxwood

Camelia

Campanula creepers

Heucheras

Lobelia

Phlox

Pieris

Irish moss

Blueberry

My garden is where lavender goes to die

I feel delphiniums might become one for me.

@forever_a_newbie_VA8 me too - I love delphiniums but it‘s the one English cottage garden staple I just gave up on in my last garden - I supplemented with extra phlox. Now I’m in a new garden and feeling confidant to try again - we shall see how it goes 😁

Oh and THIS very expensive plant I adore but they can't make it through Sacramento Augusts . The flowers are a perfect turquoise color, almost unheard of in nature!

Carla

I lost many delphiniums until someone told me the key is to only allow one stalk to flower at a time their first year, then 2 their second year. They said they basically put too much energy into producing flowers instead of putting that energy into their roots, not enough energy to come back up the next year.

Elestrial, if you plant your lavender in full sun, and in lean, super fast draining soil, and water sparingly after the first year, they will thrive for you. There are many newer varieties that seem to be improvements over the old English lavender, Lavendula augustifolia, especially a favorite of mine Lavender 'Hidcote'.

Lavender does not do well intermixed in roses, nor in front of them. Their cultural needs are directly opposite. Roses = rich, fertile soil and ample moisture; Lavender = lean, dry conditions with far less watering needs. Oh yes, Some roses can tolerate less than full sun, and some even do well with 4 hrs. or sunlight a day, but lavender needs full sun, minimum of 6 hrs. a day, and optimally from sunrise to sunset of full, unshaded sunlight.

A good substitute for lavender is catmint, of which there are many varieties of much improved traits over the old catmint. Another good lavender substitute is Hyssopus officinalis. This comes in blue or white. Both catmint and Hyssop (for short), are compatible with roses as to similar cultural needs, especially soil and moisture conditions.

Think 'Mediterranean,' growing conditions when you think of lavender: hot, sunny, and dry. Think English countryside when you think catmint and hyssop.

There are many other Hyssop species/varieties other than Hyssopus officinalis, I am not referring to them at all as lavender substitutes, for they look nothing like lavender.

Moses

Carla, I can see why Corydalis is a White Whale to you. Its cultural needs match those of bleeding heart, 'Dicentra spectabilis,' which poops out in dry heat. I know a couple who garden locally but in cool, moist forest conditions who have a bleeding heart that is 5 feet across. Can you imagine a Corydalis of equally epic proportions in full bloom?

Moses

@Heather RR (PNW 8b), wish you luck in delphiniums at your new garden. I found larkspur germinates very easily. I still bought a few delphiniums this year and will see if they can live through the summer

@Elestrial 7a, thanks for the suggestion. that makes sense. plus our summer is too brutal for delphinium. I planted them in pots this year so I can keep move them to shade when summer comes

Thank you Moses! Maybe that's what I'm doing wrong, I keep trying to plant them with my roses. It is full sun and well draining soil but I do water regularly, I'll try a different location, fingers crossed

Delphiniums are great. I did start them from seed a few times. I used the Millenium series which I thought was superior. I found they did not have a high germination rate. They grew well, but once or twice came back the next year, but by year 2 or 3 they were gone. I did grow them well in part shade. I grew a lot of everything from seed for about 5 years, but I don't do it very often now. Except for vegetable starts.

I never heard that advice about allowing only one stalk to bloom the first year, etc. Sounds like it would be worth a try to do it that way. Thanks.

For me, it's been trying to keep any gardenia alive indoors long-term. I can get one to live for about three years max, and can get it to rebloom, but it always becomes terribly unhappy at some point (even when I can detect no pests). I swore them off, but then all the grocery stores were carrying big luscious gardenias ahead of Easter this year so... Let's just say there's gardenia scent wafting across my living room right now.

Gardenias are notorious for being difficult. I think there is an old thread on the forums here about how crazy gardenias make people...and it was funny. Wish I could remember the name of that thread.

I have done well having them in a container outdoors for the growing season. I love them! Haven't tried to keep them over the winter for the next season outside. That might not be too hard to do.

Gardenias are finnicky in my colder zone, but I've found if you give them some winter protection they fair okay over the winter outdoors. The key is remembering to vent the covering when it gets warmer so the leaves don't cook.

@prairiemoon2 z6b MA

I remember the thread is something like ”suicidal gardenia” and it was really big fun🤭

Wait, so are the gardenias finnicky for everyone then? I just thought it was cause of my colder zone and them not being exactly winter hardy here. Will feel a lot better if it's just them in general

It is Ok in my place. Everyone seems to grow one or more gardenia plants and they do all right

I believe they are notoriously finicky especially when brought indoors (and possibly in colder zones like you say, Elestria). When I visit my family out in southern CA, I see them growing in the ground like big shrubs and they seem perfectly happy and thriving.

The best I've been able to do indoors is to keep the air not too dry, place the plant in a western window (in winter) and a southern window (in summer), keep it relatively pot-bound, water it about once a week, occasionally use acidic fertilizer, and inspect constantly for spider mites (neem works well on those, and the gardenia's glossy leaves aren't bothered). Still, they always seem to fail for me after a couple years, if not sooner.

My current one is cozied up next to a humidifier. Such a demanding diva, but how can your resist those blooms and the SCENT! They will lure me in every time...

This makes me want to get a gardenia for indoors, I honestly didn't know you could keep them as a house plant - that scent is amazing!

@Elestrial 7a, well, as soon as I posted the picture I noticed browning on the tips of the leaves, so we'll see how long it survives!

However, my mother did manage to keep a gardenia indoors for many years successfully, so it's possible. Maybe it helped that she could summer it outdoors, whereas I can't.

I've particularly liked the variety called Veitchii, as it seems to bloom periodically rather than just in one big flush a year. (I have no idea what variety I have now, as it was unlabeled.)

May I ask why you can't summer it outdoors?

I have Kleim's Hardy which gives me a first flush and then random scattered blooms throughout the season. I'll have to check out Veitchii

Elestrial 7a -- your garden might be too cold/wet for lavender. Like Moses said, It's a hot/dry plant preferably. English lavender should grow okay (Lavandula angustifolia) such as 'Hidcote' or 'Munstead'for you in your zone but the other cultivars are not as hardy. You could also plant intermediate lavenders (lavendins) as they are a hybrid of angustifolia and latifolia and seem to do better in wetter/colder conditions as well. I'd amend your soil with a lot of grit to make sure drainage is as good as can be, and I'd choose the hottest/dryest part of your garden to plant it in, but I'd also plant it in the thinnest (as in not rich) soil you have. A little water is okay in the summer, of course, but in the winter, that cold/wet combo is a killer. (Moses mentioned all this as well)

If you were trimming back your lavender and it died then, you might have trimmed it too far. Woody perennials like some salvias and lavenders prefer not to be trimmed back past the leaves--so if you go into bare wood, the plant will often give up the ghost completely. (Also why it's important to trim up lavender every year if you want to keep the shape in control because if you wait too long, you won't be able to trim it back very far without risking it dying.) I also agree with Moses and plant catmint around my roses for that same effect. Catmint performs better for me than hyssop (which I think prefers the hotter/drier) conditions.

You can also take lavender cuttings each year to keep your crop going should they die over the winter. They strike very easily!

I meant to add.... Lavender doesn't do well normally in my clay soil. But I did find a variety called 'Lavender Lady' and you could easily grow that from seed and it did continue to come back for me. If you can find that seed, it might be worth a try.

The infamous Suicidal Gardenia Thread

So you want to grow a gardenia, huh?

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/2765922/so-you-want-to-grow-a-gardenia-huh

Thank you Robert! Unfortunately my lavender usually kicked the bucket before winter, oof. Thank you for the tips, I'll give it a go again in a new spot

Thank you Prairie, I'll try to find that one

I agree with all you say about lavender, Robert. Here in the semi-arid desert English lavender thrives, both Munstead and Hidcote. I may not get much rainfall, have alkaline soil, and grow stuff on a slope, but lavender loves it all. Our winters are just right for this plant. I agree with Robert about care in pruning or trimming lavender. I do very little of that and it doesn't mind, but you can overdo it like Robert says. All but a few of my lavender plants were little seedling starts from a friend's lavender plants, and they went straight into the dry soil when I got them. Diane

Diane, those lavenders are stunning! They look like they are on a slope as well, so I'm sure they love it!

Beautiful lavender, Diane. A feast for the senses!

Moses

Thanks, guys. They are on a slope. I don't do a thing for them. I wish roses were so easy. Diane

More on the slope.

Beautiful Diane! I do have a very steep slope out front, I wonder if that might be a good spot to try

I tried growing Western trillium six times in different locations, but somehow they never succeeded. Although many native plants thrived in my garden, trillium and Pacific rhododendron always failed to survive.

BTW, Astilbe is very aggressive in my sandy soil. They form 3x3 clumps every three years, which are way too big for my small garden, so I keep dividing them and giving them away.

Feiy, Thanks for sharing about your Astilbe, good to know that it really has to be my clay soil. I always consider my soil to be on the loamy side, because I don’t consider it that difficult to dig, but, it’s a lot heavier than sandy soil.

Diane, you have such a beautiful garden. I didn’t realize you live in a semi arid dessert! With those huge Julia Child roses and now so much beautiful lavender that love it there.

SJNights - Thank you for finding the Gardenia Thread!

prairiemoon, it's interesting to see how plants behave in different soils. Agastache, salvia, lobelia, tiarella, and astilbe on your list are all beautiful thugs in my garden. And I spent a whole week digging to remove a patch of creeping campanula in my yard a few years ago. Pieris and camellia in Seattle are common foundation plants and can thrive from full sun to part shade. I have phlox Jeana, which doesn't get powdery mildew until late in the season, and by then it's no longer a concern. My Heucheras are from the box stores because they're a short-lived perennial, survive in my garden for two to four years. I think finding the right plants is such a surprising journey that only a gardener can understand, so let’s just take it easy and keep killing the plants. LOL.

Feiy, it really is interesting. I love agastaches and salvias that attract hummers too, but, I have only one variety of each that does well for me and comes back each year. The Agastache I grow is ‘Honey Bee Blue’ grown from seed and it reseeds nicely. There are a few more I could grow and have tried, but they look a lot like the HBB I have, so I don’t. Some Salvias and Agastaches are just not hardy here, so that is the other issue.

I just looked and I see I have tried 10 different varieties of Salvia. Lol The one that sticks around and performs well, is ‘Rose Queen’. I enjoy it, but in comparison to others, it's a little 'vanilla'. Half of them I have treated as annuals and they are sold that way here.

You must have a beautiful garden to have all those plants in abundance.

Camelia is just not hardy here. There are a few that are said to be hardy to z6, but the one I tried didn’t make it through the first winter.

Pieris? I have no idea why that doesn’t do well for me. I just looked it up. It’s hardy enough and I have plenty of part shade, but ….aha….I see it requires acidic soil. I have neutral. That’s why blueberries don’t do well for me unless I keep amending them every year.

I’m going to look for Jeana Phlox, thanks.

Oh, so Heucheras are short lived? Well, that is helpful to know. The only one that has been around for years was a seedling of a named variety. I’ve tried 8 different Heucheras and a Heucherella. All gone. Bought my first one in 2005 and the last one I bought was 2012. My favorite that I am going to try to replace, was ‘Midnight Rose’.

You’re right, finding the right plants is exactly a ‘surprising journey’! One of the first books I bought was ‘Right Plant, Right Place’, so theoretically, I should have been able to choose exactly correctly and all the plants in my garden would still be thriving. [g] Maybe I keep choosing plants by what I love and ignoring the growing requirements...lol. That has to be it.

Poppies hate me. i figured out my wet clay soil is probably the problem, but they also will not grow in pots for me no matter how well I assure the drainage.

Moses - good luck with your Rose Midge Fly...make 'em die!! :)

Elestrial - I laughed out loud when I read your yard is where lavender goes to die. :) :) My yard is where clematis goes to die. lol I've given up on them.

@Erika

love poppies too. Last fall finally I broadcasted a patch of California poppies. They showed up all right early spring. Then we had a few heavy storms in March\April and the patch was flooded a few times. Poppies really look sad since then and only produced 2 flowers in total.

However the Crimson Clover sowed at the same time is a big success. clovers enjoy the wet soil and give a great show

Crimson Clover had been my white whale for a decade. I bought the seeds before 2010 but always gave up growing because I heard deers love them. Until last year I thought what the heck!

I will expand the crimson clover patch this fall and find a new place to grow poppies again

Heucheras grow well in London. My impossible list is

cornflowers

any scabious

Californian poppies

We have plenty of hot and dry so most of my white whales like wet and cool conditions:

- primrose

- lobelia

- trillium

- corydalis

- delphinium AND larkspur (can't get that started)

- sweet peas

- Toad lilies

I used to lament that I couldn't grow Morning Glory until I found a lovely dark purple Grandpa Ott's that took over my entire wall of fence meant for climbing roses. I finally figured out why no one grows it in any spot where another plant needs to be because it reseeds relentlessly once established. When I had to dig out all the climbing roses I also ruthlessly picked the germinating seeds of the morning glory. Never again - it gets ratty after about noon and I'm rarely in the garden before noon so only my neighbors enjoyed it looking nice.

Rosecanadian, I have a clematis that I guarantee you can grow in your yard but you don't want it. I have no idea what variety it is any more but I seem to remember it had scruffy little pink flowers. I long since dug up the parent plant but it put out seedlings into the lawn and all over other beds. Mowing it weekly for 8 years has failed to kill it so I'm reduced to digging and/or poison. it's not sweet autumn clematis which is also a thug and no longer in my garden. It's lovely in fall but again reseeds relentlessly. I had it in my old house and resolved never to plant it here. Seeds have blown in from a yard at least 4 houses away and it has spontaneously come up in at least 3 spots of my yard. Never again on either.

Cynthia

Forever - I've never heard of Crimson Clover. So cool!

Fire - scabiosas do great here. Maybe they love the cooler weather.

Cynthia - I'm aghast at that clematis!! I had no idea they could be so ruthless. Yikes!

@rosecanadian

Crimson Clover is a cover crop used as green manure in agriculture. We used to see a slope of them blooming on highway to DC in April and it was stunning

@Fire zone 9a, north London, UK

A friend in our area grows wonderful California Poppy and says it is easy. I can only think of flooding as the cause of my failure.

Coneflower is very easy to grow here. I read that wet winter is a big problem for them

I have dry, stony, alkaline clay soil but even after digging in in a ton of grit, lavender comes to die here too. I’ve also tried it in pots in a gritty, well-drained, low nutrient mix, in full sun, part sun, in richer, rose-amended soil - you name it, it will die in it! The intermedia types do OK for a few years but all others barely make it through to the end of the season. My winters are cold but mostly dry so I can’t blame drowning, not that they get to experience a winter anyway.

Salvias such as nemorosa, guaranitica and the shrubby greggii/macrophyllia types are good rose companions. As are echinacea, nepeta, guara, penstemon, ornamental alliums and agastache, although the latter are short-lived.

For prairiemoon re: phlox

(It’s now several years old)

https://mtcubacenter.org/trials/phlox-for-sun/

And astilbe does well for me here despite clay soil.

Thank you rifis, I did see that study a few years ago, but now I don't have to go look for it again.

That's good to know that astilbe does well in your clay. I wonder why mine does not? I've tried it at least 3x. And I bought two more 2 years ago and built up the bed I wanted to grow it in, so it would increase the drainage. I haven't seen it come back this year so far. Last year it did come back, but a shadow of it's former self and did not bloom. Odd.

Forever, Crimson clover is such a good ground cover. It grabs nitrogen and puts it in the soil. A lot of people use it under their blueberries, pecan orchards, and other "fruiting"crops. In the south it dwindles in the summer. Its really nutritious forage for livestock. We have white clover and now also crimson clover that the birds apparently have been "spreading" seed from the cow pastures next door. I'm happy to see it. Its pretty and I'm letting it reseed.

Forever - oh, thanks for explaining. :) :)

Nollie - lol :)

Cynthia, I have tried toad lilies, primrose and lobelia and they don't do well here either. And I have zone 6b conditions - winters, clay soil, full shade and part shade. I continue to think that I have very dry conditions, dryer than others in our area, due to all the mature trees in my neighbors' yards up against my lot line. That's the only reason I can come up with that I plant them and they disappear. Although I still have a couple of toad lilies but they have never bloomed in a decade.

@prairiemoon2 z6b MA - I think the extra drainage might be what’s hurting your astilbe, mine are in clay soil along the edge of my rain garden. Astilbe hate to dry out.

Mine are all end-of-season sale, almost-trash plants so they may be growing entirely on spite as well. I hadnt planned on planting them but, you know, cheap plants …

lol...growing entirely on spite. :) :)

For me, it's the ericaceae family. Rhododendrons, ericas (except Erica verticillata) , enkiathus, vaccinum, all die quickly. It took me a while to figure out my soil is not acidic enough to grow them, although my neighborhood has some grand old rhododendrons around so maybe it's just me. Enkianthus cernuus is the one I spent a lot of money on to watch die slowly.

Contrary to many in this thread, I seem to have the perfect conditions for lavender. It reseeds itself almost too aggressively and will grow happily alongside roses. Lavandula dentata popped up under a magnolia and is growing fine in a shady spot.