engineered wood floors with hdf instead of plywood

10 years ago

I'm laying engineered wood floors, and have been told that some manufacturers are starting to use high density fiberboard for the under layers instead of plywood; that it is more stable and less prone to moisture damage. Anderson makes "Rideau Plank Maple" using hdf. This is not "mdf" but "hdf." Any opinions on whether using hdf instead of plywood is better or worse for longevity, dents, etc?

Featured Answer

PRO

Cancork Floor Inc.

10 years ago

Hi Car57,

The HDF core can work...but it has limitations/drawbacks. Moisture is it's greatest enemy. The "resin" makes me scared. The waterproofing products are not "all that" because of their off-gassing concerns. Forsight is right - the HDF products should NOT BE installed slab on grade in areas where moisture in the slab is an issue. There must be some form of SERIOUS moisture mitigation going on for that type of installation. A cork floating floor is made up of HDF...which is why I know this. I've seen the "moisture resistant" cores and they are not much better than the high quality HDF coming out of Europe. The reason cork can be installed in a kitchen = it can be site finished with polyurethane. I'm assuming this engineered hardwood is NOT able to be site finished = no go in kitchens, entranceways, laundry rooms, bathrooms.

The "resin" could be an issue. The HDF coming out of the USA and much of Southeast Asia are often filled with formaldehyde "resins" as binders. Anderson does NOT offer their MSDS on line, nor do they explain the thickness of the hardwood finish. The floors are 3/8" thick. this is quite THIN as engineered hardwood floors go. I would suspect that there is no way to refresh or refinish this floor. They offer a "wear through" warranty = aluminum oxide or ceramic bead finish. Either way there is no way to refinish this floor. The layer of hardwood is not very thick...which again means there is no way to refinish these floors.

Maintenance states you can not use WATER to clean these floors!!! That just about says everything you need to know. Even leaving their cleaner on the floor for "too long" will damage the floor and void your warranty. Yikes.

This floor CAN WORK - you need some serious vapour barrier on the slab AND you need to keep every drop of water off this floor AND it must stay AWAY from kitchens, bathrooms, entranceways and laundry rooms. The rest of the house is fine.

I really don't like the "resin" idea. That screams out "chemical additives" to me. JMHO.

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Comments (11)

PRO
Al Fortunato Furnituremaker
10 years ago
High density fiberboard as well as MDF are both sponges. They will absorb water and swell like a sponge. I have replaced kitchen cabinets made of both that have gotten wet and fell apart. I would stay away from both in flooring. In fact, in my house, I would only use solid wood floors. Maybe some of the flooring guys can chime in here and give some better info.
car57
Original Author
10 years ago
Thanks. I can't use solid, b/c here in Texas on a cement slab, engineered is the recommended choice due to shifting, etc. Just when I think I know every relevent point in making a selection, along comes this hdf factor, and of course, I've found a floor I love that has hdf. But I can't afford to make a mistake (did that by getting laminate in the past), so I'm willing to take my time while gathering info. Three different flooring guys at the store were all for the hdf, which btw is impregnated with resin to increase water resistance. Is it all just bunk? Any flooring people out there with an opinion?
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PRO
User
10 years ago
I'd have to see strong independent testing trials to off-set years of visible experience that HDF/MDF is wholly superior to plywood constructed substrates. In commercial environments ( retail and display, offices and reception etc) you have dry consistent conditions. It's economical for higher volume material orders and installations. I would not install it over concrete slab-on-grade in a home. I'd discuss potential in a high rise/condo setting perhaps, but not in areas traveling through kitchens or bathrooms.
car57
Original Author
10 years ago
I'm sorry, I'm not understanding - are you saying hdf is superior to plywood? But that you wouldn't install it over a concrete slab?
Lesley Delle_Grazie
10 years ago
No, I believe Foresight is saying the opposite (i.e. show me years of research and I'll believe it). MDF and HDF are basically paper. How could paper possibly be better than wood? Find another floor you love that's on plywood.
PRO
User
10 years ago
My apologies if unclear. I would rate plywood above fiberboard products, as a substrate.
PRO
User
10 years ago
Also, if you proceed with any purchase of HDF/MDF, do your installers a service by insisting that the product is Formaldehyde Free. Historically around the world, the resins and binding agents used to make the product have proven to be health risks for those working and fabricating the material. I know, because I used to be one of them. Today there is effort being made to replace the resins with more environmentally friendly chemical agents. OK, Soap Box removed.
bubbasgma
10 years ago
Try http://www.thefloorpro.com
car57
Original Author
10 years ago
Thanks for your input. It's so hard to get a straight answer out of contractors and salespeople who want me to buy now and think later (when it's too late). Having had a bad experience with laminate flooring and water, I don't want to repeat that. I can't guarantee some water at some time won't get on this floor. I seem to hear good things about Mirage, except for the price. Is a moisture barrier necessary with a plywood substrate floor? (None of this is going in bathrooms or kitchen.)
PRO
Al Fortunato Furnituremaker
10 years ago
I don't know where you have been shopping but if it was a big box store, go to a specialty floor store and see what they recommend for your area and what the warranties are. Big box sales people are there for one reason only, selling things.

Foresight is right, hindsight is the best experience.