If what I have is cathayana, as I now suspect, the differences to me would be that lancifolia tends to be a rounded mound, while cathayana is more of a runner and will quickly fill up all available space as a ground cover. I see this morning that it is sending out runners a foot away from the main plant where I have it next to my rock steps, it has gone under the rocks and come out the other side. Kinda reminds me of bermuda grass, lol!.

That and the fact that it is generous with its seeds while lancifolia apparently rarely is. The picture I posted on the other thread is not really accurate as to color; there is too much pink in the photo.

I think I may have lancifolia also, it bears watching to see what it does. That patch isn't spreading as quickly and the individual plants seem to be slightly larger. It has already bloomed and done without setting any seed pods and the flowers were a lighter purple. No runners on these. Of course, they may not be lancifolia at all, just some other small greenie, as I have never identified them definitely.

Just my observations, based on what I've read about the two of them and what I see in the garden. Maybe someone else that is more species hosta savvy has better information.

Sandy

OMG!!!! .. so many words ... lol

here's one for the record book: I DONT KNOW ...

and another: I DONT CARE .

LOL ...

what.. no pics of your two plants????? .. not that they would be any help to me ....

was any of the above quoted from the supreme guru... george schmid??? .. he used to pop in here once in a while.... way back when ... and thru his species pages.. i am pretty sure.. he is open to emails ... might i suggest you post your pix here.. and then respectfully send him an email with a link here.. MAYBE he will give us the sermon from on high... or easily link us to such ...

he would be my fallback source ...

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: right there he says: I want this feature to be interactive. Tell me what your needs are and suggest improvements. Just e-mail me at hostahill@bellsouth.net

And to add to your confusion, the same photo appears in the Hosta Library under both types!
Jan

Here's what MoBot has to say:

This medium hosta is native to China (cathayana means from China). It typically matures in the form of a vase to 10â tall and to 18" wide over time. Ovate-lanceolate, glossy, dark green leaves (to 5â long and 2.5â wide) have acuminate tips and wavy margins. Funnel-shaped, purple-violet flowers in racemes to 8-10" long (10-20 flowers per raceme) appear in late summer on green scapes rising above the foliage mound to 24â tall. This hosta is very similar in appearance to Hosta 'Lancifolia', except it has smaller and glossier leaves, shorter flower scapes, later bloom time and viable seed. Japanese name for this hosta is Akikaze Giboshi (autumn wind hosta) in reference to its bloom occurring in the autumn wind. Maekawa 1940.

And about lancifolia:

An erect, vase-shaped, medium hosta to 12" tall featuring a mound of lance-shaped, wavy-margined leaves that are medium green above and a glossy, lighter green beneath and racemes of funnel-shaped, violet flowers on arching scapes to 20". A dependable and versatile perennial requiring little care. Grown primarily for its beautiful foliage which provides color, contrast and texture to the landscape. Dense foliage crowds out most garden weeds. Somewhat stoloniferous. May also be listed as Hosta 'Lancifolia'.

Sooooo, I am just going to enjoy them and quit worrying about the differences.

Here's what George Schmid has to say about them:

Here is a link that might be useful: cathayana and lancifolia

Cathayana is very fertile. Lancifolia is sterile. Just see if your plant sets seed or not. If it does, it's not Lancifolia. If it does it's likely Cathayana. Both flower very late so you should know by the end of the season.

Steve

Ken-we each have our special interests. This one is mine. I will be back with my findings. Steve-I think I have both and will be publishing here my findings and I see differences in dimensions.

Who has both and will join in? Obviously Ken doesn't wish to or care to. Doesn't matter to him, or to me. I respect Ken for what does matter to him. I want to know what those who have H. cathayana and H. 'Lancifolia' can offer to my interest and others like me want to know.

Theresa

This post was edited by gogirlterri on Mon, Jul 29, 13 at 17:13

Yes I have referred to his published works on hosta species and have found it enlightening. My measurements and data are based on the information he provides such as leaf shapes, base shapes, tip shapes and so forth.

My results are minute, regarding the differences between H. 'Lancifolia' and H. cathayana, but appear distinctive. I just don't have enough samples to be conclusive So I am asking GWHF members to contribute-or will be.

This is how research is often done!
Theresa

Ken-we each have our special interests. This one is mine.

==>> surely.. i was just pulling your leg ... when i see all those words.. i see passion ... passion for hosta.. and surely i can not downplay that ....

have to get down to the bottom of pg 5 ... thru 8 .... of the schmid link to get to the nut... presuming you are the squirrel looking for such ...

here is what i glean from it all from page 6 :

"While the differentiation of these two culta is no longer a taxonomic problem (both are cultivars), it is never the less troublesome in horticulture, where the apparent similarity of these culta has produced a thorough mixup of the two culta in the horticultural trade ..."

as your name says.. you go.. girl ... and good luck ...

who knew ...

ken

Thanks Ken. I in no way intended to offend, or insult you. This is a deep subject, I guess, and didn't recognize my leg being pulled. LOL

I really feel I am on to something! I will eventually solve my photo posting problems. I have preserved leaves of my two hostas that shows the differences. In the meantime all I can to is by the 'old' way, where words are used.

The two are so similar, yet for whatever reason I seem so much more attracted to what I feel are H. cathayana.

None of my species are variegated yet all have impressive and substantial leaves and spectacular flowers. The ones I'd believed to be Lancifolia are great bloomers. But Lancifolia is also; but not quite so.

Some of us don't think much about blooms. That I respect. But I do. The most gorgeous blooms I have are on my ventricosa and clausa var normalis...

Theresa

I hadn't picked up on they both being cultivars. So to be technically correct it should be H. 'Cathayana'?

I've done some leaf snipping and observing and am feeling more comfortable that I have both. My earlier impression that H. cathayana is a bit more dainty than 'Lancifolia' based on what I have read seems confirmed. I am digesting everything and will post my impressions as soon as I can. I have referred a lot to Shmid's published report on species hostas regarding leaf shapes and so forth. I don't have Hostalpedia, but my local library can be loaned one from another library for me.
There IS a definite difference in leaf shape between the two I am comparing, but it is very subtle.

Theresa Ann

"The best hosta library we have exists in our own yards!"(TAK: July 30, 2013)

I've never pursued this. I have a bunch of Lancifolia, descendants of 3 free divisions from a friend - our first hostas. In another area we have some given to us as "those smaller ones that look like the bigger green ones..." I suspect those are Cathayana. I'll try to remember to watch blooming...

None of my species are variegated

==>>> not many variegated 'species' in the plant world.

and i am not aware of any at all in the hosta world ...

i am not sure that is the word you thought you meant to use ... lol ...

though i read thru most of schmid's stuff.. i didnt really want to learn the technical language.. there was a limit to how much i wanted to learn ...

i just figured i would never have the opportunity to sit around with a bunch of botanists.. and shoot the 'nure ...

keep at it.. until you are happy ...

ken

ps: here.. mull this... if a species comes true from seed [which is one of the definition of species] .. and variegation is based on DNA .... how can you repeatedly duplicate the dna strands.. to insure variegation in a species???? .. hmmm.... see.. you learn to much.. and then all of a sudden.. you are asking yourself questions that:

1) no one else really cares about... lol;

2) if you found some botanist to give you an answer.. your eyes would roll back in your head.. and you would pass out.. after 55 minutes of not even approaching an answer anyone but a scientist could understand ... lol ...

I do Ken, and love it. I've downloaded tons of stuff on DNA. I never remember numbers. It is a waste of my gray matter when I've learned where to find them elsewhere. I'm a binary woman=1 or 2 or neither. So I know dna exists as a double helix, meaning two strands wrap around each other. Where they touch is a nexus. There are millions of them and they are supposed to match. It is at each nexus where genetic history is communicated.

If just one nexus is mutant and doesn't match the result is a mutated organism. Usually it is insignificant and the mutation regresses, but doesn't really go away.

However, during reproduction (particularly when a species has a rapid reproduction cycle, like fish and hostas) it is more likely the mutation becomes stronger and a knew, in our case hosta comes into existence. Since hostas develop completely new leaves each season, this explains why seedlings often revert back to green. Solid green absorbs sun energy better and the plant has no need to retain the variegation. My Guacamole gets a goodly amount of sun and is rather unspectacularly variegated. It looks much like a dark plantaginea with slightly rounded leaves.

It rained all day yesterday (Yay!) but only totaled 1/4". Until yesterday I hadn't received 1/10" total for July. Normal is over 4". But it is raining again this morning. I didn't want to lay on wet ground observing hostas. So I still have to put together the information I am developing

Idiothe (I am just now making sense of you forum name :o I will tell you another way to tell them apart other than viability (I think).Look at the shape of the base of the leaf where it meets the pets. In what I believe to be cathayana the edge of the leaf conjoins the pet more in the shape of a "V", with straight edges. In Lancifolia it can be described better as a "U", with no notch. Both are oblong rather than lance shaped with the Lancifolia being slightly more so. The length to width ratios are different with the cathayana being narrower. Both have equally acute tips. If you like you can follow this in Shmids work on species hostas.

This is a bit lengthy, but are not subjects that can be glanced over and understood. I am trying to make it as easy to understand as possible, and as I am typing I am not looking at notes. Not taking anything away from forum members, but I refer to my ability or inability to accurately communicate my thoughts

Theresa

This post was edited by gogirlterri on Wed, Jul 31, 13 at 9:01

So, does Lancifolia not get seed pods? Or does it get seed pods in which the seeds are just sterile?