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meadowdreamer

Discouraged about start up costs :(

meadowdreamer
12 years ago

I am completely stoked about SFG. I just heard about it two days ago and ran and got the book and was ready to roll. Then I realized the start up costs. I know for some it's not much but my husbands been haveing cut hours at work so we are very tight on money right now. :-( Our local co-op sells:

Vermiculite: $19.00 4 cubic sf

Peat Moss: $14.99 (Lowes has it for $10.00)

Compost runs anywhere from: $2.00-$7.00

We have our 4x6 bed made. So...I failed math, please help me out here ;). How many bags of Vermiculite do we need? My husband seems to think 4. So $80?!?! Just for that?

Plus you add on the cages for tomatos and trellises for melons and green beans. Guess I could do bush beans and save there! Anyway, any suggestions or info would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Elicia

Comments (31)

  • susan_in_md
    12 years ago

    You don't say how high your raised bed is, but if we assume it is 12 inches, the math is easy. You have 24 cubic feet to fill (6 x 4 x 1). If you use the mix with one third vermiculite, then you need 8 cubic feet of vermiculite, or two bags. If you are only 6 inches high, you would need only one bag. You will only need 4 bags if your bed is two feet high.
    You've gotten this far, try not to get discouraged! People have successfully used other combinations of mixes if there is a problem with availability or finances.

  • meadowdreamer
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    I forgot to mention that it's 10" deep.

  • kiffany
    12 years ago

    I was able to get vermiculite at Menards in the area that has insulation for houses. It is sold in 1 cubic yard bags for $10 as insulation for attics. Much cheaper than smaller 1 cubic foot bags they were selling in the garden section at the same store, from the same manufacturer.

    Might want to check that out.

    Also I got compost for free from my city's landfill.

  • susan_in_md
    12 years ago

    Then you're going to have 20 cubic feet to fill, total, so two bags of vermiculite, if you go with the straight mel's mix - you'll just have a little bit left over.
    Also, I forgot to say, regarding the cages and trellis, I've always got my eye out for things that can be improvised to use as plant supports - you may be surprised at what you already have around the house that will work. If you search around these forums, too, you will find lots of ideas that are not too expensive.

  • meadowdreamer
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Thanks for your help and encouragement Susan!! It was much needed. Two bags sounds MUCH better than four.

    I will check and see about our landfill also Kiffany. I think some stores will sell torn/spilling bags discounted too so I am going to inquire about that. It's sounding more hopeful! :-))))

  • nilaa
    12 years ago

    Hi,
    I am also starting a SF garden and shocked with the $ it costs to start up, but the only motivation is atleast it is one time cost. i am planning to start a compost so by next spring hopefully i will have some compost for free.
    keep looking out for cinder blocks or bricks, pipes which ppl throw out. then even put away the tomato cages.
    But the soil and Fence costs a lot. we got the fence alone for almost 50$ .
    but atleast we would have fresh veggies straight from garden to table.
    Good luck!

  • AlaskaChris
    12 years ago

    Try not to get too caught up on filling the entire bed with the exact mix Mel recommends. I created by beds last year and too couldn't afford to go out and buy all the ingredients to fill them. So I just sort of winged it. Here's what I did...

    I have one long bed 2 feet wide and 20 feet long and a second smaller bed 2 feet by 10 feet. My beds are just 6" deep. So I had 30 cubic feet to fill. I bought 2 bales of peat (6 cubic feet) and a couple of bags of composted chicken manure (4 cubic feet). I found someone giving away composted horse manure for free on craigslist and I picked up 4 or 5 feed bags full of that. The previous owners of the house left behind a few large containers of potting soil (used to grow annul flowers) and a bag of sand from some other project so I added those as well. I dug up all the existing soil below the beds to about 6". I took all the existing soil and mixed it with the peat, compost, and used potting soil. I didn't buy any vermiculite (I didn't want to spend the money on it). After mixing well I added everything back to the beds. It didn't quite fill it to the top but since I had dug below the beds as well I had something like 10" of mix. My mix worked out just fine, held moisture well, drained well, and I had a fantastic garden. I think I spend about $50 total.

    I guess my point is buy what you can afford but don't get too caught up on having to follow Mel's mix exactly. Vermiculite helps with water retention but it isn't required to grow veggies. People have been growing food with out it for thousands of years. If you can only afford one bag then just use that much. If you have any soil at all below the beds use it...the roots will appreciate the extra room to grow and you can get away with not filling the beds as full. Next year you can add a bit more and space the cost out some.

    As for spending money on a trellis. Think outside the box. For the tomatoes don't buy cages just use stakes and tie the tomato plants to them. And rather than spend lots of stakes from a garden center just buy a couple of cheap wood furring strips from the lumber department. Again a couple of stakes and a ball of twine will make a nice trellis for beans. Make due with what you can afford for now and you can always upgrade to nicer things later. You don't 'need' all the fancy extras to grow a few veggies.

  • keski
    12 years ago

    AlaskaChris,
    I visited Fairbanks a couple summers ago. I was amazed at the size of the cabbages, pansies and other veggies. All that light must make up for the temps.
    I extended a bed last year and to make it level, it was 10" deep on one end. I filled it with whatever I could get my hands on - MG potting and garden soil, dehydrated cow manure, straw etc. and made Mel's for the top six inches. Threw in some worms from the other gardens. Things look pretty good now. All decomposted.
    Keski

  • AlaskaChris
    12 years ago

    Yep the cool weather crops like cabbage, peas, and greens do amazingly well up here. Warmer crops like tomatoes and peppers are a bit of a struggle though. Keeping them warm enough to set fruit is the problems. I grew a few arctic varieties and this year am building a little grow house type mini greenhouse for them. Someday I'll have a real greenhouse.

  • smokeyangel
    12 years ago

    I just built my frame and I'm worried about the same thing - the cost to fill it and what to fill it with. But I know that I don't have to use that exact soil method with my very first bed. I'm sure there will be a lot more in my future! I'm more concerned about getting the technique down first.

    You might see if there's a Freecycle in your area. It's a good way to get materials that people might otherwise throw away and of course get rid of things as well. I've heard of people posting fencing material for free (if they tear it down) so it's a good way to get free labor as well. You just post your request and if members can fill it, they email you. It works the same if you have something to give away. I think it's great! Craigslist is great too but sadly you have to really be careful. It's popularity has attracted criminals. Use your best judgement there and trust your instincts. Take someone with you and/or meet in a safe public place.

    Also, if you can track down a good local farm and ranch store ran by an old-timer, the prices are often lower and in larger quantities. They have such a solid customer base from being around so long that they often don't advertise.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Freecycle

  • ribsyhuggins
    12 years ago

    maybe you should try the original square foot soil mix instead .

  • steveinjersey
    12 years ago

    There's a lot of ways to save money for SFG.
    I'm sure "Mel's mix" is probably the perfect soil to plant in. But you probably don't have to "buy new soil" unless you have some kind of contamination in the soil you already have. Use your soil, and adjust it as needed to acheive perfection.
    Should not be too rocky - take out the rocks!
    Should be loose enough that roots can grow easily - double dig, and work in compost.
    Should retain enough water that it doesn't dry out too quickly. If you have a lot of clay in your soil, the last thing you need is vermiculite, you need sand and compost. If it drains too quickly, try adding clay instead of vermiculite. Kitty litter is a lot cheaper.
    Add compost - preferable the kind you make yourself or free. If your community has leaf pickup in the fall, and collects lawn waste during the summer, they have compost someplace just waiting for people to come get it.
    If you live in a rural area, talk to some farmers about getting some free manure.

    Having your soil analyzed by your county extension service (about $15) is a good idea. It will tell you what kind and how much fertilizer you need for your particular soil for the crops you want to raise, and how to adjust the pH, if necessary. I was surprised to see how much Phosphorus was in my soil, and now make up fertilizer that has none.

    Look on Craig's list for free stuff that you can border beds with. Leftover bricks or lumber is just fine if it's clean.

    Good luck!

  • chudak
    12 years ago

    This is probably heretical to say on a SFG forum...but I ditched Mels' mix several years ago. I spent a ton of money on vermiculite and peat moss...only to have beds that wouldn't wet properly and were a nightmare to water. I'd water the beds for 20 minutes only to scrape off the top 2 inches of soil and find everything underneath bone dry.

    When I redid my yard last summer, I built new beds. This time I used 12" redwood and had the landscaper fill them halfway with the same topsoil he was using on the rest of the yard. I mixed in a ton of organic compost and top them off with more everytime I replant them. I also put in drip irrigation so I don't have to hand water. I've had WAY more luck with these beds and I know they are healthy because they are FULL of earthworms.

    If you are in a position where you can put your beds on top of existing soil I'd say forget the Mel's mix and fill the beds with a blend of topsoil and compost.

    You can get topsoil relatively cheaply by the cubic yard and there are many places you can get free compost. Farms with lots of horses often have lots of composted manure you can take away for free. We have a local mushroom farm that also goes through a ton of compost and will let you take away their used compost for free.

    There are lots of things you can do to reduce costs.

    Oh, and to be sure, I do still practice the intensive spacing/planting methods of SFG...just not the soil practices...which just haven't worked for me.

  • curt_grow
    12 years ago

    While I love square foot gardening I agree with chudak, only my first bed is Mel's mix and I am working on amending that one. For pete's sake I was watering once or twice a week in an area that needs water only once or twice a season LOL. I have found free sharp sand from the river, and compost will make a better bed when mixed with my silt loam. My favorite trelles' are old display rack's that folds up with the shelves removed. Free for the hauliing from the local Pamida.

    Curt

  • utility
    12 years ago

    I am also new at this and have had to work around the expense of soil. I found this lasagna method online. I'm going to layer the following. Manure, dead leaves, manure, dead leaves, etc ... until I get to the top. Then I'll spread a thin layer of newsprint and lay the special sfg mix on top of that. Water every layer well as added it and it should decompose and become rich compost in the bottom layer with the moisture holding stuff on top. I have ton of dead leaves but would have to pay for straw which is what the method actually recommends. I think as long as you get the carbon nitrogen ratio right it will work. The thin layer of newsprint is just an idea I had so the expensive stuff stays on top. After it rests, I can easily puncture it while planting. Just a scheme I thought up which may or may not work.

  • silverwind
    12 years ago

    The leaves should work fine as long as they're chopped up, whole leaves are likely going to mat up on you. :D

    Sounds nifty - similar in some ways with what I've been toying with the past few years. (Really. Chop the leaves. XD )

  • utility
    12 years ago

    Chop the leaves!!!! WOW! This is way harder than when I first conceptualized this! Now I need to figure out HOW to chop leaves. It just never occurred to me. Thanks!

  • keski
    12 years ago

    We use a lawn mower to chop up leaves.
    Keski

  • utility
    12 years ago

    Funny! My neighbors will think I am NUTS but I suppose I can pile them on a tarp, throw them back on the lawn, mow them into shreds and rake them up again! In the autumn I can just mow them so I am not raking twice. Thanks for the tip!

  • ralleia
    12 years ago

    > Posted by AlaskaChris 3b (My Page) on Fri, May 6, 11 at 16:00
    > I grew a few arctic varieties and this year am building a little grow house type mini
    > greenhouse for them. Someday I'll have a real greenhouse.

    Have you considered a hoophouse (curved steel supports with a double-layer of thick plastic sheet and a blower pushing air between the sheets). It's much more economical than a real greenhouse, and now that I've experienced using one I don't ever want a "real" greenhouse.

    I'm still learning how to use it--I didn't have it planted effectively this past winter.

    Hoophouse photos:

    March

    May--EEK!

  • utility
    12 years ago

    That's pretty cool for your area. :O)

  • homeend
    12 years ago

    if just use straight bulk compost which can be bought most places for $25 a yard. as long as you add some green matter to balance the nutrent you should get simlar result squarefoot. Since thats what square foot recomends for places where peat , Vermiculite and perlite are not avalible such as third world.

  • utility
    12 years ago

    So True! I have recently watched the movie "Dirt" and have a whole new appreciation for our planets "skin" !!!!! :O) Time to combine utility pragmatism as well as beauty ... :O)

  • georgiahomegarden
    12 years ago

    I agree with others, in a perfect world with no budget you could use Mel's Mix, but that isn't reality for many people.

    Here is a link to what I did
    http://georgiahomegarden.blogspot.com/2011/04/2011-garden-square-foot-gardening.html

    I always smile when people say, ohh your going to save so much money with your garden. In reality you are never going to make money from your garden. When you factor in water, fertilizer, soil, lumber, mulch, etc. you are already starting in the hole. This is why most farmers have to get subsidies from the government just to keep from going under. You are doing a great thing, and don't let the costs discourage you. Start small if you have to and work your way up.

    Here is a link that might be useful: My Blog

  • silentbreeze
    12 years ago

    I probably started my SFG with a couple hundred dollars. It was just easier for me to buy the wood for the frames. If you can get scrap or skids somewhere great. Depending on time and available resources it can be a lot cheaper. I started with just bags of soil and either manure or compost and added to it over the years. I do buy several bags of soil every year to replace soil lost. Used elesctrical conduit for trellis and have used fence stakes and made a trellis out of that. But you'll be much happier in the end when it produces fresh produce. And if you start composting you may start to get "BONUS" plants when those tomatoes, and other seedy plants come up that either fell on the ground or were in the compost pile the next year. Some potting soil or other soil may already have verm in it. I do have to water it a lot in the summer when its hot. I use old water jugs and water from the sink and let it sit out to get to the temperature outside. So is not to shock the plants with cold water from the sink.

  • heather38
    12 years ago

    I was hoping to give some words of wisdom, but everyone has it covered, I had hard rock for a yard, so Sq foot was the only way to go, I used vermiculite, but a fraction of what was recommended, I lived in a high rainfall area even in the summer although hot, so I replaced with sharp sand to try and help drainage, used more peat moss than recommended,because it is cheap (top tip add a small amount of washing up liquid to aid absorbtion of water...learned this one too late) and alot of compost, it doesn't have to be expensive.
    Also, I will repeat, as much as we garden to get great food, we are enjoying it, getting a work out, cutting food miles, but why is gardening the only hobby that seems to need to justify it's cost?? most of us are not self serficient so do what you can afford, if the economic climate means you have to, then just do what you can, but mainly enjoy it.

  • loisthegardener_nc7b
    12 years ago

    I so agree, just do what you can, and experiment. That's the most fun part, actually, seeing what you can do with what you have. I couldn't find the ingredients for Mel's mix last year, so I did the best I could and the result was not so good. I almost gave up on the raised bed, but then found someone nearby who owned a horse and invited me to carry away as much composted stable sweepings as I wanted. So I replaced half the contents of the raised bed with pure horse compost, and it's doing much better this year.

    Although I went with purchased cedar wood for the first square foot bed, if I make another, I plan to use landscaping stone because it will last longer and be more economical in the long run. If I had enough rocks on my property, I would also consider making my own little stone wall raised beds.

    There is one advantage to a wood frame, however, and that is you can easily attach brackets to it for trellising. The PVC pipe and string I used cost less than 5 bucks for two trellises. I had them cut the pipe at the store for me because I don't have the equipment here at home to do it. They worked great to hold the tomatoes in line and I did not have to find a place to store big tomato cages afterwards.

    (The baby racoons in the picture were apparently just passing through and did not bother the garden.)

    Here is another picture of the tomatoes trellised using the Florida Weave method.

    The following is another way I found to save costs. Instead of buying glass or plastic cloches which allow you to plant veggies a little earlier, I made my own from big plastic water bottles and plastic grocery bags. I cut the bottom out of the bottle and poked the bottle through the bottom of the plastic bag. Then I taped the edges of the hole to the bottom of the bottle and weighted the plastic "skirt" down with rocks so they won't blow away.


  • Ray Scheel
    12 years ago

    An old hand checking in: on a base (existing soil) of "sugar sand", the only vermiculite in my beds has been my discards from rooting cuttings and old potting soil that was recycled into the compost pile. It is much the same story for peat moss. Shredded leaves subbed for peat moss in my initial fill, and the worms have worked up just enough of the right sizes of sand and grit to balance the otherwise pure compost that I hauled in from the local mushroom grower. I top off with my own compost and occasionally get another load from the grower as my own compost production can't quite keep up.

  • Jay5
    12 years ago

    I recently made a 4x8 raised bed using 3- 2x10x8 treated boards with one cut in half for the ends.
    I lined the insides with plastic to reduce leaching even though general knowledge found on the web says the wood treatment now used is safe for gardens.
    I also added deck board to the sides to sit on while working the garden.
    I used rustproof screws for assembly.
    I double dug using a tiller. (boy that clay was HARD)

    I added and tilled in 4 bags each of soil conditioner and compost in the immediate bottom to a depth of about 4 to 6 inches to loosen the clay, raked a little soil in and tilled again, added Sta Green garden soil and did the same.

    Did this in layers tilling in well until I had a bed about 14+ inches deep of loose, well draining, and nice dark and good smelling soil. Added a couple of bags of Black Kow too.
    Oh yeah. My wife had some leftover MG potting soil and I put that in too. Normally would have not because of the cost but it was available soooooo.

    I have close to 150 dollars in this bed total.
    I didn't think that was too bad.
    A fair amount of that cost was the compost and such.
    Like someone said if they can find a better source than bagged mix they can save a good amount of money.

    I put in 4 bell pepper and two "Mr. Stripey" tomatoes and they are doing ok. Put some cantaloupes in but probably don't have as much room for them as I need.
    We'll see.

  • sinfonian
    12 years ago

    You can definitely go overboard with SFG expenses if you like, but you can also go dirt cheap. You could even make your own compost like crazy this year and augment with your ton of compost next year. Finding scrap boards on craigslist or freecycle etc. will further keep the costs down. I understand your concerns. My brother and I built a chicken coop for me for $300 that could have cost $1,500 to buy. It can be done!

    Here is a link that might be useful: Sinfonian's garden

  • coconut_head
    12 years ago

    I only put topsoil in my raised beds and everything is doing fine. I am doing a large compost bin and plan to add compost into the mix every year, but other than that, I don't plan on using any chemical fertilizers or anything.

    I have 2 4x8 raised beds this year and 3 4x4 mounds for my pumpkins, zuchs, cukes, acorns and watermelons. Next year I am upping the ante a bit and will try to put in a total of 8 more raised beds and maybe add a few more 4x4 mounds as well. I have lots of yard, so money and time are my only reasonable limitations.

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